When Are Local Law Enforcement Going to Start Demanding to See Sealed Warrants?

In light of the recent FBI raids on Militia groups across several states, it is known that all of them were done with SEALED warrants. It is also known that the Joint Terrorism Task Force was involved. It is clear that local law enforcement cooperated with these raids in every case, and helped to form literally small armies in order to accomplish this, blocking roads, using helicopters, and more.

So what I want to know is what county sheriffs have demanded to see these warrants? Isn't it time local communities enacted legislation against these kinds of raids to stop the lack of oversight that occurs with raids like this?

If local law enforcement continues to allow the FBI to come take its community citizens without even knowing what the charges are, and they are not allowed to even see the warrants, then in my opinion local law enforcement has failed to meet their duty to protect its citizens that have hired them.

With the expansion of the Patriot Act and FISA courts, and the ability of the feds to label anyone they want as a terrorist, the last line of defense that any citizen has is the demand of local law enforcement to see and verify warrants, as well as evidence, before allowing the feds to descend in such a massive manner on any citizens.

Well that has clearly not happened in this case, and the feds had complete cooperation of local law enforcement based solely upon the fed's word, and SEALED warrants.

This has got to stop, and the federal power to do this must be put in check by local law enforcement if they want to retain the trust of local residents. Otherwise, think about the consequences. Citizens will be forced to demand to see sealed warrants on their own- and we all know that is simply just not going to happen. What is more likely to happen is that militia groups, not trusting local law enforcement to protect their interests first, will eventually refuse to allow the feds to do this. And the result of this will be a situation that will pit militia groups against ANY type of authority whatsoever- including local law enforcement.

And this no doubt will result in another Waco, or worse. And probably, A LOT worse. Like a civil war. Local law enforcement is going to have to show the people that they are not willing to just accept the feds' word to descend upon the population with sealed warrants under the veil of terrorism charges. Or local law enforcement will face the consequences of this lack of action, with the total loss of what little trust is left from the citizenry.

To protect and serve.

So start protecting and start serving your citizens first. No more sealed federal warrants on terrorism charges. If you are going to cooperate with the feds, then you better know WHY you are cooperating.

[edit on Mon Mar 29th 2010 by TrueAmerican]

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I have to disagree at this point in time and that could change in the future but we are not seeing a mass round up of American citizens at this point. You would notice and the Internet would be a buzz if this was the case.


I few nut job radicals get rounded up and we start thinking the end is coming this is not the case yet. And when it is we will all know well the few of us that actually look will know but we will spread the word.

reply to post by Subjective Truth


Your reply completely avoids the central point of the thread. These people may have been nut jobs, I don't know. But the whole point is that local law enforcement didn't know either, and they cooperated with the feds under SEALED warrants.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
reply to post by Subjective Truth

 

Your reply completely avoids the central point of the thread. These people may have been nut jobs, I don't know. But the whole point is that local law enforcement didn't know either, and they cooperated with the feds under SEALED warrants.

I am not in law enforcement so I do not know if this is policy or what. But I have not heard any outcry from the local police on this matter. Why is that? Sometimes I think we look for smoke a little to hard.

[edit on 29-3-2010 by Subjective Truth]

I for once see your point and agree with it.

Local law enforcement does have a duty to know exactly what is to be searched for and where to search. When delivering warrants it is an obligation not only that the warrant be clear as to the persons to be searched and the things to be seized but it also helps prosecution.

reply to post by whatukno


By chance do you know what the common way of doing it is? I am interested to see if this is something out of the ordinary or if it is common practice.

As someone who is close to law enforcement it is sad but not new. I have frequently been told that the feds come in and muck things up and never really have to answer to it. It is made possible by the bureaucrats that run these local law enforcement agencies (The COP is a good example). In order for them to keep their jobs they simply comply without reason for justice. They are not their for law and order (not all I believe but you get the gist) but are simply their to manage paperwork and tell the police what to do, all while keeping their departments as clean as possible. The problem is that they answer to the local higher council not the people.

reply to post by ventian


So basically this is nothing new? I ask because it has implications. And if it is common practice this OP might be fishing for something because of beliefs and not the actual truth. I am sorry if that sounds harsh. I do agree with freedom and rights but I also don't want to dive into two feet of water.

reply to post by Subjective Truth


I think that a federal warrant is the thing that is out of the ordinary. A sealed one is certainly out of the ordinary.

How are local law enforcement supposed to react if communication has been compromised in such a manor?

I also don't think its completely appropriate for local law enforcement to work in conjunction with federal officials without knowing exactly what the suspect(s) are wanted for, or specifically what they are searching for.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Subjective Truth

 

I think that a federal warrant is the thing that is out of the ordinary. A sealed one is certainly out of the ordinary.

How are local law enforcement supposed to react if communication has been compromised in such a manor?

I also don't think its completely appropriate for local law enforcement to work in conjunction with federal officials without knowing exactly what the suspect(s) are wanted for, or specifically what they are searching for.

I kinda look at this way what if the feds are not sure if the local police will tip them off or something like that. I have been doing some thinking on it and this seems like the plausible answer to it. They don't know who the good guys are and who is cousin with who.

Who cares whether this is new or not? I am asking a simple question, and now already I am being accused of some other motive.

What I am saying simply is that at this time I cannot trust that my county sheriff or local police, or anyone else for this matter, to present any kind of buffer zone, or last line of defense, between the feds and me. I can't trust they will protect me from the feds if the feds decide that because of my posts on ATS, for example, I am labeled as a terrorist- and am to be rounded up for indefinite detention under FISA laws or the Patriot Act, or whatever.

But this doesn't just apply to me. It applies to every single one of you, too. You can't trust your local law enforcement to do this for you either. So the question remains:

When Are Local Law Enforcement Going to Start Demanding to See Sealed Federal Warrants?

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Look at my post above and I think I might have the answer they want it to be a secret and they don't know who the good guys are in such a small town.

[edit on 29-3-2010 by Subjective Truth]

I understand you wanting that defense, but you will have to look at this from a political point of view no matter how bad it is. The feds come in and want to do what they come to do. They bring sealed warrants and refuse to open them. In the eyes of local politicians they are the higher power than the local police force. To demonize them in any way would risk having funds cut from the cities operating budget. The politicians are there to ensure the people have the things they need (or they get what they want, whichever) and having funds cut is simply not an option. It isn't fair, it could be unconstitutional but it is the way it is because of politics. As long as the feds aren't ruffling the feathers of too many local citizens it will continue to happen. If you don't like it then the only option you have is to run for office. It isn't impossible, but as a member of ATS you should know that anything you have posted could be used against you.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


When Are Local Law Enforcement Going to Start Demanding to See Sealed Warrants?

There is only 1 way.

The states have to secede and no longer acknowledge
the FED GOV jurisdiction. Basically it would be like
the FED's trying to serve a warrant in China.
When a State secedes, then the Patriot Act is
suspended cause it was enacted in a FED court,
not a State Court.

Then when the Feds come a knocking, the Sheriff can
intervene because he and the state police are under
State rule. As a matter of fact, they can escort them
back to the State Line and expel them from their territory.
Actually without a repeal from congress, the States
are the only entity who can suspend the Patriot Act
but ONLY in their own territory.

However in the case of the Raids that just occurred
in OH and MI, they did not use the Patriot Act. It was
a Domestic Terrorism charge which is why they are being
arraigned in a Fed court monday morning. If it was
Patriot Act arrest, u'd probably never see the poor
guys again.

reply to post by ventian


And so, what, are you comfortable with this to just write it off as mere politics, and that's ok? It's just "the way it is?" Federal funding? Oh, I see, so once again MONEY means more than lives. Federal funding means more than protecting the lives of the citizenry. Why am I not surprised?

Jeez, no one even bothers to address the subject.

I have talked with my county sheriff and he has stated that if TSHF, for sure they will not forgo standard procedure.

Now, with this # happening, who knows.

I think maybe tomorrow or Tuesday I should see if I can set up another appointment.

I am really wondering if I should be heading to Wyoming. At least there they have stated that they will not allow the feds into one county without prior knowledge and if they try to enforce federal gun laws the fed agents will be arrested.

I do not have any illegal guns by fed or state or local statutes. But hell, how do we know they are not going to start their new powers of FISA or Patriot Act or the new EO's.

I hear you OP, the crap is getting thicker every day.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
I cannot trust that my county sheriff or local police, or anyone else for this matter, to present any kind of buffer zone, or last line of defense, between the feds and me.

I hate to tell u this

but u r the only thing between the FEDs and ur home
unless your State secedes from the US.
So right now, U R the last line of defense.
I wouldn't trust anybody right now.
Best wishes

I'll be terse in pointing out that local law enforcement *could* have been tipped off as to what was up by the presence of a bomb squad unit.

At least in one of the events.

I don't agree with SEALED warrants; I would suspect that higher up LLE would have been briefed.

No matter how clean they WANT to keep their little outpost(s) those LLE's were certainly making Overtime Pay for weekend work. Make no mistake there.

Authorizations and some fore knowledge was present. LLE doesn't just roll over.

Especially in small towns.

Originally posted by boondock-saint
Then when the Feds come a knocking, the Sheriff can
intervene because he and the state police are under
State rule. As a matter of fact, they can escort them
back to the State Line and expel them from their territory.
Actually without a repeal from congress, the States
are the only entity who can suspend the Patriot Act
but ONLY in their own territory.

Well, if this video I just posted is right, provost marshals are set to notify all governors of all 50 states TODAY that we are returning to common law free from federal control.... Ha, yeah right:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
reply to post by ventian

 

And so, what, are you comfortable with this to just write it off as mere politics, and that's ok? It's just "the way it is?" Federal funding? Oh, I see, so once again MONEY means more than lives. Federal funding means more than protecting the lives of the citizenry. Why am I not surprised?

Way to put the words in my mouth. No I never said I was ok, what should I do? Do you want me to go on a rant about how I am tired of the federal government breaching the constitution? Then search for my posts over the forum boards and you can see plenty of the rants. Of course I am tired of them as are the local police officers in my area. I simply stated why this is happening. I went on to give you the means to fix it. I said if you are so tired of it then run for office yourself. There is no other way short of that. The feds have the money and these agencies have to comply less they will lose those grants. These towns are going bankrupt right now, teachers and city employees are being laid off and the federal government uses it to their advantage. It is old fashion dirty politics. As stated you may not like it but it is how it is.