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The Illuminati Origins Debate

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posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 09:12 PM
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There are some who say Weishaupt started it all (my favorite theory) and others say they descended from the Knights Templar, and yet others say they're from Atlantis (then again, Robert Anton Wilson has to stop smoking crack) but for those of us that follow this stuff, which theory seems to be the most likely?




posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 09:48 PM
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I am on the side of Adam Weishaupt forming the Illuminati in 1776.



posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 09:55 PM
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I believe the theory that Weishaupt created the Illuminati as a group for social and political enlightenment. I also believe that Weishaupt's Illuminati, the true Illuminati, is an extenct society, that has been carried on years after it's demise, by over active imaginations, and people claiming to be in the Illuminati.



posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 10:06 PM
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There really isn’t a serious debate on the issue, and all “real” historians agree that the Illuminati was founded on May 1, 1776, by Adam Weishaupt and Adolph Von Knigge. They originally called their society the Order of Perfectibilis, but soon changed their name to “Illuminati”, which at the time was a common word used in general to denote the Enlightenment thinkers.
Weishaupt used as a model for the order the Sons of Liberty, a secret society in America whose membership included Washington, Franklin, and Jefferson. It is believed the Sons of Liberty were responsible for the Boston Tea Party, and they had close ties to colonial Masonry. Weishaupt had hoped that his own order would provoke a similar revolutionary movement in Bavaria.
The Illuminati was not esoteric or occult in nature...in reality, it was extremely rationalistic, humanistic, and secular, taking their lead from Voltaire, Diderot, and Rousseau.
Because of its revolutionary nature, it was infiltrated by the Bavarian secret police while still in its formation phase. The Order technically consisted of 9 degrees, but it was disbanded and outlawed before the higher degrees could be completed.
Weishaupt published the Order’s formerly secret documents along with his memoires in his book “In Defence of Illuminism.”

Fiat Lvx.



posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 10:07 PM
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While Weishaupt may have been influenced by the Knights Templar and other things, it doesn't change the fact that there was no Illuminati until Weishaupt founded it.

There's always been retrofitting in occult and religious movements. No one wants to admit they're part of a new movement, so they try to legitimize it and give it pedigree by claiming famous figures from history and legend as their founders. There are Wiccans who claim that Wicca is centuries old, but it started with Gerald Gardner in the 50s. Neopaganism may draw upon ancient cultures for inspiration and reconstructionalist purposes, but it, too, is a relatively young stream of religious thought. I've even seen Christians claim that Abraham and Moses were Christian, which I'm sure would have come as a great surprise to those very Jewish gentlemen. In many ways, it's the same as the Mormons' retro-baptism of figures such as Hitler -- does it really change the fact that Hitler wasn't a Mormon?

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by Hecate100]



posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 10:17 PM
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The "Illuminated Seers of Bavaria" was founded in 1776.

But the Illuminati (if it exist)... Could be dating from decades, we'll probably never know.

Here's an article that "speculate" on it's possible origins. Ties the whole thing to the Knight Templar, the "Illuminates of Ra", a group of tantric yoga practitionner, the moslem cult know as the "Assassins" and various christian gnosist religions. Interesting read, even if there's no solid proof but only speculation.

www.meta-religion.com...



posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 10:27 PM
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The Illuminati can be traced all the way back to Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Mysteries society.

Modern day Illuminati as we know it was founded on May 1st, 1776.



posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 10:55 PM
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I am THAT(which it may be that I am) I am, It is THAT(which it may be, being) It is, We are THAT(which we which we may be, being in summation) we are. Further words are....just arrogance in ignorance, conjecture and opinion.

Of course we all have the right to an imagination, dont we

[Edited on 6/2/04 by Lucifer]

[Edited on 6/2/04 by Lucifer]



posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 11:58 PM
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The Illuminati was not esoteric or occult in nature...in reality, it was extremely rationalistic, humanistic, and secular


That's what I thought, but I'd heard from other sources that initiates would smoke hashish in order to achieve "illumination". I don't believe this though; it strikes me as odd that a society based on controlling the world would consist of pot smokers



Weishaupt had hoped that his own order would provoke a similar revolutionary movement in Bavaria.


But isn't it true that the Illuminati were a key element in controlling the French Revolution (and even the early Russian Revolution)? Or was it simply established to foment revolution in Bavaria?



posted on Jun, 3 2004 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by Don Armageddon

That's what I thought, but I'd heard from other sources that initiates would smoke hashish in order to achieve "illumination.


That was a medieval Arabic secret society called the Hashishim, which means “Assasins”, who practiced ritual cannabis smoking. The Illuminati didn’t do that as a group, but some of their members were known to smoke hash and opium, such as Goethe and Mozart.


But isn't it true that the Illuminati were a key element in controlling the French Revolution (and even the early Russian Revolution)? Or was it simply established to foment revolution in Bavaria?


It was only concerned with Bavaria, and its members were all German. They wanted either a constitutional monarchy like Prussia, or a democratic republic like the US. The Illuminati’s membership was composed entirely of liberals, who would not have supported the Jacobin movement that gained control in Paris in the French Revolution.
I’ve heard it claimed many times that the Illuminati started the French Revolution, a claim that is completely false. The Illuminati expected the educated middle class in Bavaria to rise up and overthrow their tyrants, as they had done in the American colonies. However, the French Revolution was instigated by peasants who had finally had enough of watching their children starve.
By the time of the Russian Revolution, the Illuminati had long since disappeared. But the so-called “Whites”, led by Kerensky, would probably have met with the Illuminati’s approval, since they too were liberals. But the Whites were outgunned by the “Reds” (i.e., Communists), who took control of the revolution.
In Russia, like in France, the revolution was initiated by the oppressed poor, and it was fairly disorganized, at least until Lenin and Trotsky began gaining popular support, which allowed them to finally re-organize a state.

Fiat Lvx.


Fiat Lvx.



posted on Jun, 3 2004 @ 03:09 PM
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As for Weishuapt and Knigge their words or ideas were warped by two "historians" Barruel and Robison. Weishaupt and Knigge promoted freedom from the curch's domination over philosophy and science while Barruel and Robison stated that their intentions were to destroy the church. Weishaupt and Knigge wanted a release from state oppression Robison and Barruel said that they (Weishaupt and Knigge) wanted the destruction of the state.
The original inention of Weishaupt's Illuminati was one of humanist ideals that wanted to search for answers to science and philosophy without relying on the Church what they are



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