Christians are discriminated against and 'treated with disrespect', senior bishops warn

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


Catholics are Christians.

That is the truth.

reply to post by thegoodearth


there is no insulting, only statements of facts about history for those who know and remember... In all actuallity I do find the statement from the Catholic church that they proclaimed instead of being sister to other churches instead they were the 'Mother' I find this a very British/Roman trait and hence we had our reformation... History is doomed to repeat itself if we are not informed of past mistakes, this may also give hint of why Reformed Christians give more support to Judaism.

no hate here just fact, my fellow Christians will understand this I do not expect Atheist to have the capacity.

Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

Catholics are Christians.

That is the truth.

actually Christians are Reformed Catholics...

we're just plain Christians who believe in Christianity.

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


Yes, I am a Jesus believer.

YAY! GO FORTH!

Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

Yes, I am a Jesus believer.

YAY! GO FORTH!

and where did the reformed Christians go to you may ask ? -to America

glad I could help...

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by Bunken Drum

 

Christian are not Catholics, and btw I was responding to someone else's post it's called a follow up.

peace

All christians are not catholic, but I dont remember saying they are. Still, all catholics are christians. Just the same as all dogs are not chihuahuas but all chihuahuas are a pain in the arse... er I mean, dogs.
Does it matter what you were doing with the thread necromancy? You quoted Newton on religion. When I mentioned the Pope & fornication, it was an example of somebody whose opinion is worthless, since that isn't his area of expertise.
I might just have easily said, if I wanted to know how much coal it'd take to get a fire going in a church that'd be impossible to put out before it burned the place to the ground, I'd ask the bloke who delivers my coal. If I wanted to know the chances that a photon from that conflagration might interact with a sub-atomic particle in space &, charging it, eventually coalesce into atomic matter, form a star & shine down on a new planet, given a chance, I'd ask Steven Hawking. I wouldn't ask him about humping sacks of coal up flights of stairs, nor would I ask my coalman about wheelchair design. I wouldn't look to either of them for a quote on religion to stick online. For that, I'd want someone who was @least a doctor of divinity, or a well respected philosopher.

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

In all actuallity I do find the statement from the Catholic church that they proclaimed instead of being sister to other churches instead they were the 'Mother' I find this a very British/Roman trait and hence we had our reformation...

Well, if you research the history of your faith, you'll soon discover that were it not for the Roman Empire & specifically that part of it that came under the command of Constantine I, its extremely unlikely that there would have been a christian church that lasted long enough to have a Reformation. You see, @the time, christianity was a diverse set of cults, many of whom did not even believe in Jesus, but called themselves "christian" b/c they were the "anointed". There were others who didn't believe in the divinity of Jesus, just that he was a prophet & others who believed he was a messiah, but still just a living man sent by god. During your research, pay particular attention to where the ideas that a living man could also be divine & the son of a god came from & where virgin birth might have been considered important. In judaism? Certainly not!
Then consider when these ideas were added to the canon & in what order, along with the idea that Jesus himself did not have sex. Is this jewish in origin, ie something which we might resonably expect to come out of an area where jews had spread so far into the Empire created by Alexander the Great that they no longer spoke Hebrew but Greek? Only if they had also lost their literary tradition & were influenced by Greco-Roman mystery cults... which we know they were, b/c jews in Alexandria had The Torah translated into Greek in order to try to preserve their original faith.
Where are these cults now? Where are the mystery cults? Where is the religion that would have certainly dominated the region if it were not for Constantine's victories, Mithraism?
All gone to be replaced by the "universal" church.

Christians cop the most because they go about their lives, share their countries with other beliefs (how many other religions can say the same?) are pretty fair and compassionate and unfortunately for those more forceful, it's looks like weakness.
Add to the fact that Christianity is splintered over so many different denominations, not in one big cluster, well it can look like they aren't big players like the others.
But, The squeaky door gets the oil. It's how it's been since the year dot.
So until Christians start demanding their rights and demanding that their traditions and beliefs are respected, then their silence will fall on deaf ears.

reply to post by Flighty


thanks Flighty.. good response, I didn't have time to read the beyond the very first sentence of the two post above yours but I did have time to read yours this morning... Maybe sometime I will come back and read his but I like unbiased and well spoken responses worth replying to.

Hate never gets too much attention.

reply to post by Flighty

The squeaky door gets the oil. It's how it's been since the year dot.
So until Christians start demanding their rights and demanding that their traditions and beliefs are respected, then their silence will fall on deaf ears.

Now there's an interesting philosophical conundrum. If a christian falls in the woods & the only ears to hear it are deaf, is his blasphemy still sinful? On a side note, can blasphemy be expressed in sign language?
I think you'll find that christians have not only been "demanding their rights and demanding that their traditions and beliefs are respected", but, for the bulk of christian history, creating rights for themselves which others were denied & laws which forced others to abide by their traditions, not simply respect them. These days people have had enough.
Demand away. This squeaky door wont get any oil, it'll get taken off, thrown on the bonfire & replaced with a nice new 1 incorporating all the latest developments, including a handle on the inside, so that those within can come & go as they please through it.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
there is no insulting, only statements of facts about history for those who know and remember... In all actuallity I do find the statement from the Catholic church that they proclaimed instead of being sister to other churches instead they were the 'Mother' I find this a very British/Roman trait and hence we had our reformation...

The Reformation came about due to Martin Luther's disgruntlement with the Pope and several issues with the Magesterium of the Church, not due to the title of "Mother"....

"The Protestant Reformation began on 31 October 1517, in Wittenberg, Saxony, where Martin Luther nailed his Ninety-Five Theses on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences to the door of the Castle Church, in Wittenberg the theses debated and criticized the Church and the Pope, but concentrated upon the selling of indulgences and doctrinal policies about purgatory, particular judgment, Mariology (devotion to Mary, Jesus’s Mother), the intercession of and devotion to the saints, most of the sacraments, the mandatory clerical celibacy, including monasticism, and the authority of the Pope. In the event, other religious reformers, such as Ulrich Zwingli, soon followed Martin Luther’s example.

Moreover, the reformers soon disagreed among themselves and divided their movement according to doctrinal differences — first between Luther and Zwingli, later between Luther and John Calvin — consequently resulting in the establishment of different and rival Protestant Churches (denominations), such as the Lutheran, the Reformed, the Puritans, and the Presbyterian"

en.wikipedia.org...

However, the repeated attacking of Catholicism as "non-Christian" in this thread is what I am referring to.

Persecuting a Christian faith, just because one believes rampant distorted propoganda in the MSM makes one as guilty as the non Christians who persecute Christians.

Contrary to the MSM reports, the popular Protestant spoonfed belief, the actual rate of pedophilia in priests is less than 1/3 of 1% or 0.3% of the total amount of priests.

Less than the occurance in the population of married men, unmarried men, et al.

This number was researched and found after an exhaustive study done my a NON- Catholic scholar and released just this past summer in his book, Priests and Pedophilia .

We don't hear much about this statistic.

The 10% bandied about is actually the statistic found by Hofstra University of Secular school kid abuse in the SECULAR schools. (non- catholic teacher abuse)

Have you ever read the Catechism of the Catholic Church? It contains the entire belief system of the Catholic Church and is available at any bookstore.

I recommend reading it, as well as reading the various encyclicals by especially Pope John Paul II, to include the Gospel of Life, the Theology of the Body, and Crossing the Threshold of Hope.

I would never comment directly on another's religion based on what I read in the MSM or heard from another actively NOT of that faith. Period.

If I hadn't read the books underpinning their belief system, and if I especially had not been to one of their worship services, it would be the worst form of hypocrisy.
How dare I presume to know, based on Internet or biased knowledge?

However, look at all the religions around you. Can one honestly say that no pedophilia or abuse happens in any of those? However, the Catholic faith keeps meticulous records of all its priests, back to St. Peter. That is why they can be traced. Unfortunately, Protestant churches do not, therefore, abuse that happens in Protestant Churches cannot be traced back to its perpetrator easily and gets lost in moves and transfers...Protestant Churches are very scattered around the country, their Pastors and laity come and go, and they keep poor records of who works in what group for what purpose.

It is more noteworthy and sells more newspapers to denounce the Catholic Church.
The Catholic dioceses require criminal background checks and ChildLine certification on each and every one of the people involved even remotely with children, as well as a workshop on Child abuse and neglect, down to the maintainence men in the buildings, before one was allowed to teach or be around the kids. This is just policy

However, this article, in the NY Times, published in 2007, never is cited or gets any noteworthy attention.

The three companies that insure a majority of Protestant churches say they typically receive upward of 260 reports a year of children younger than 18 being sexually abused by members of the clergy, church staff members, volunteers or congregants.

The figures released to The Associated Press offer a glimpse into what has long been a difficult phenomenon to detail: the frequency of sexual abuse in Protestant congregations.
Protestants’ numbers are harder to come by and sketchier because the denominations are less centralized than the Catholic Church. Many congregations are independent, making reporting even more difficult.

This reporting was only done by the Protestant congregations who carried insurance and who informed their carriers that an action was in place. This does not count the numbers of congregations who have no insurance, or who do not report potential claims. I wonder what a "majority of the Protestant churches" means.

Abuse victims are heartbreaking. They trusted men of God. This is inexusable behavior. No matter what the faith.

Do the Protestant Churches have groups to help the Protestant victims through their heartbreak? Do they have Pastors and laity to extend apologies and try to heal the damage done by others entrusted with their Religious education? Do they comment in worldwide press about the abuses in their churches and resolve to make it right? I have a hard time finding much at all about these matters in Protestant churches in MSM.
I hope and pray they do find healing.

www.nytimes.com...

no hate here just fact, my fellow Christians will understand this I do not expect Atheist to have the capacity.

Why would you presume I am an atheist, simply because I commented on the hatred I saw spewed against a religion by self proclaimed "religious" people?
I simply pointed out what I read. That is a ridiculous assumption.

reply to post by Yissachar1


I have found many Xtians to be completely obnoxious people who follow the "One right way". Thoise that give respect will always get respect from me. What is so hard to under about that perspective?

Originally posted by tiger5
reply to post by Yissachar1

 

I have found many Xtians to be completely obnoxious people who follow the "One right way". Thoise that give respect will always get respect from me. What is so hard to under about that perspective?

Cant argue with you fella. You have to give respect first.. If it come back, all well and good, if it does not, screw em.

Originally posted by thegoodearth

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
there is no insulting, only statements of facts about history for those who know and remember... In all actuallity I do find the statement from the Catholic church that they proclaimed instead of being sister to other churches instead they were the 'Mother' I find this a very British/Roman trait and hence we had our reformation...

The Reformation came about due to Martin Luther's disgruntlement with the Pope and several issues with the Magesterium of the Church, not due to the title of "Mother"

sorry I did not say that, you may have read my post wrong or I needed to reword it ? I was simply stating that Catholicism went thru a major reformation... Mr Tyndale (a personal hero) had alot (maybe even unsaid) to do with the formation of our nation... the United States.

reply to post by thegoodearth


my comment about the "Mother of all Churches" is just to show the attitudes of the Catholic Pope and why the reformation was even adopted in the first place, plain American Christians do not worship the Pope... We love Jesus and was given his word then the commoner came to USA and did something with it based around our own ideas of freedom from British tyranny.

Thank you Mr Tyndale for bringing the word of Jesus to the common man/woman

Originally posted by thegoodearthWhy would you presume I am an atheist, simply because I commented on the hatred I saw spewed against a religion by self proclaimed "religious" people?
I simply pointed out what I read. That is a ridiculous assumption.

I never assumed anything, I was using the term also in a broad sense... Do I know you ? have I ever had any previous discussions with you ? the word you have typed here came off your own lips and in all actuality I assumed you were a person of God just because of your avatar.

got me cause I really have no assumptions of you at the moment...

Ok. Forget mincing words. One cannot argue with what Lord Meltchet, of Black Adder fame, described as a "twisty turny thing".
The reason it is right & proper for the christian faith to be persecuted is simply this: 1 of its core tenets is "judge not lest ye be judged". The christian church did judge & harshly. It is now reaping what it sowed.
Think this is "hate" anyone? No. Hate is for those who knowingly, willfully do me or mine harm that cant be dismissed. This is contempt.
Ordinarily, I would pity a fool, even if their foolishness caused others & me inconvenience. However, when it too becomes willful, what can I say? Just as when a person has allowed their dog to defacate in the street & not cleaned it up, I can only hold that person to the same standards of behaviour I adopt myself.
So no, the weasels in the clothing of the lambs of god can do all their best impression of bleating they like, they'll not get any sympathy from me.

reply to post by Bunken Drum


dang brother you really need to stop drinking, I can't make heads or tails of that post... is it a cut and past of someone else's opinion and not really related to this conversation the rest of us are having in this topic ?

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


I agree wholeheartedly. No Christian worships the Pope.
Catholic or non-Catholic.
Catholics worship the Holy Trinity-God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit- alone.

God Bless~