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Massive Federal Raid in Lenawee County

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posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Digital_Reality
Sick, sick, sick! WTF?
These people do not in any way represent sane Americans. Please ATF raid these people if they are stock piling guns and ammo. There is an underlining mental problem obviously.

well if thats the case, then our forefathers
were mental when they wrote the right to bear
arms statement.


I'm not against them having firearms or doing their little para military youtube vids. That is their right as long as they do it legal. I do however have a problem with them plotting to kill innocent policemen or blow up a funeral.

Additionally if you look at the youtube vids of the sicko that wants to be a serial killer that was part of the group there is no way you can tell me what he is doing has anything to do with patriotism.

3 things that can go very wrong among a group of people when done together is: guns, religion and politics. That is a scary mix that obviously drove these people down a dark road of deluded self rightnesses




posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by Arrowmancer
The Indictment document for the Hutaree

Didn't see this posted yet.


I have 1 problem with this document; reading legal docs is above my paygrade
I usually have to read and re-read to understand. But this I read and understood as if reading a novel??



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 08:36 PM
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Count 1: Seditious Conspiracy

This little gem deserves a thread of its own; a 19th century law as draconian as it may seem can land your keister in the darkest of holes my friends. Post tight reined.



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by Fractured.Facade

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Digital_Reality
Sick, sick, sick! WTF?
These people do not in any way represent sane Americans. Please ATF raid these people if they are stock piling guns and ammo. There is an underlining mental problem obviously.

well if thats the case, then our forefathers
were mental when they wrote the right to bear
arms statement.


The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. --Samuel Adams

Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: First a right to life, secondly to liberty, and thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can. --Samuel Adams

The natural liberty of man is to be free from any superior power on Earth, and not to be under the will or legislative authority of man, but only to have the law of nature for his rule. --Samuel Adams

Maybe if this guy were alive today, he'd be deemed a domestic terrorist, right wing nutjob, have his home raided and be jailed indefinitely?


Well said. Star for you...

And those were the words from just ONE of the Founding "terrorists".

It amazes me that there is now a very fine line between a Patriot and a Terrorist. The generations of my family that all served and died for this country are rolling over in their graves right now.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

They always knew times like these were ahead of them, it was just a matter of when and not if.

~Namaste



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by 5 oClock

Originally posted by Arrowmancer
The Indictment document for the Hutaree

Didn't see this posted yet.


I have 1 problem with this document; reading legal docs is above my paygrade
I usually have to read and re-read to understand. But this I read and understood as if reading a novel??


Interesting observation... which prompted me to take a look and yeah I see what you mean...there are other grand jury indictments on the web to compare, yeah this one does read like a novel..


...Captain Hutaree, solicited a person he believed capable of constructing destructive devices to provide him with four anti-personnnel Improvised Explosive Devices IEDs to take with them to the summit....


First off, I am sorry to say, but these guys were not too bright,
and I betcha that IF the guy that built & taught the IEDS technology was the Fed "informant"... then they are going to have entrapment issues.....if these guys don't buckle and start saying whatever the FEds want them to say, which likely is their plan..

This would fit the long history of Feds infilitrating various groups and then being the ones who actively pushed those groups towards violence... all they needed was a somewhat charismatic paranoid who was not the brightest bulb on the tree... and they could manipulate him perhaps using the techniques taught at The School of the Americas..(see SOAWATCH.ORG) to make the theatrical play out in any way and most importantly AT ANY SPECIFIC TIME that they desired.... and using an unstable borderline personality (and this is my speculation of course) always supplies plausible deniability for covert operations anyway!

I'm sorry, but I'm calling #.S. on this one.

AND this is a great "I told you so" "example" to demonize militias in general..which would be the likely motive...

In Homicide investigations there is something called M.M.O. METHOD, MOTIVE and OPPORTUNITY...

The problem is, if the METHOD and the MOTIVE were supplied by the Feds...perhaps the case will get a bit shakey??

If I were the lawyer representing these guys in court I would demand a copy of the government's Operational Plan...not that I would actually expect to get it... cause I bet THAT plan would describe all the covert operational steps that were taken to control, that is, manipulate, the mind of the guy they called the leader of the Hutaree...

Of course perhaps I am just incapable of conceiving such idiotic logic...... lets kill a cop then attack the funeral... to start the revolution?? - were these guys just smoking too much of the meth they might have been cooking? and yes, I know that one must never attribute to conspiracy that which can be explained by mere greed, ignorance and incompetence...

---------

But Remember this... the BEST mind control or propaganda is that which makes you think that it was YOUR idea..














[edit on 29-3-2010 by seataka]

[edit on 29-3-2010 by seataka]



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 09:18 PM
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People have to know this stuff is all staged.

They went after this militia group now because they are trying to build a narrative in the media in order to change the subject.

This is right out of the Saul Alinksy playbook. If you can't win the argument then change the subject.

So they want to label tea party activist as racist, dangerous, a militia and anything else they can think of.

I'm sure most Americans are smart enough to see through this.



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 09:45 PM
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Let's look at the charges alleged against these people in depth.

Count 1: Seditious Conspiracy


If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.


Count 2: Use of weapons of mass destruction


(a) Offense Against a National of the United States or Within the United States.— A person who, without lawful authority, uses, threatens, or attempts or conspires to use, a weapon of mass destruction—

(2) against any person or property within the United States, and


Count 3: (p) Distribution of Information Relating to Explosives, Destructive Devices, and Weapons of Mass Destruction


(2) Prohibition.— It shall be unlawful for any person—
(A) to teach or demonstrate the making or use of an explosive, a destructive device, or a weapon of mass destruction, or to distribute by any means information pertaining to, in whole or in part, the manufacture or use of an explosive, destructive device, or weapon of mass destruction, with the intent that the teaching, demonstration, or information be used for, or in furtherance of, an activity that constitutes a Federal crime of violence; or

(B) to teach or demonstrate to any person the making or use of an explosive, a destructive device, or a weapon of mass destruction, or to distribute to any person, by any means, information pertaining to, in whole or in part, the manufacture or use of an explosive, destructive device, or weapon of mass destruction, knowing that such person intends to use the teaching, demonstration, or information for, or in furtherance of, an activity that constitutes a Federal crime of violence.


Count 4: Carrying, Using, And Possessing A Firearm During And In Relation To A Crime Of Violence


Except to the extent that a greater minimum sentence is otherwise provided by this subsection or by any other provision of law, any person who, during and in relation to any crime of violence or drug trafficking crime (including a crime of violence or drug trafficking crime that provides for an enhanced punishment if committed by the use of a deadly or dangerous weapon or device) for which the person may be prosecuted in a court of the United States, uses or carries a firearm, or who, in furtherance of any such crime, possesses a firearm, shall, in addition to the punishment provided for such crime of violence or drug trafficking crime


Those are the laws that these men are charged under. In detail, with links to each law.

2:10-cr-20123

Thank you Arrowmancer for finding the document of charges against these people.



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 10:15 PM
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I was just watching CNN 360. They talked about this event. They said that the reason these militias is being formed is out of fear that a New World Order is taking over. They actually said New World Order. They went on about the NWO and how Christian militias feel as though this is a very probable reality and that there are more of them forming.

Just a heads up.



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 10:20 PM
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Its feds false flag.

Get with it. Every major militia has been infiltrated by feds trying to entrap emotional folks into doing dirty deeds.

Feds in Dallas build a fake bomb for a guy and had a guy drive it to a building where they arrested him.

Seriously the feds are behind the stuff.
It should give warning flags when the xwife is the person's biggest critic.



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix Rising
People have to know this stuff is all staged.


I'm sure most Americans are smart enough to see through this.




That is the problem! Most Americans Aren't!, or don't bother looking into the story and just believe what is told to them.

The girl, I have been dating, maybe, too long!?!, won't trouble herself to be informed to what is going on and settles for MSM news and hearsay.
There are way too many people like her, still, though, I think the pot is getting larger as far as citizens paying more attention to cash for clunkers(metaphor) garbage, etc...

She voted for Barry Satero, and now is having buyer remorse already!



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 10:40 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix Rising
People have to know this stuff is all staged.

They went after this militia group now because they are trying to build a narrative in the media in order to change the subject.

This is right out of the Saul Alinksy playbook. If you can't win the argument then change the subject.

So they want to label tea party activist as racist, dangerous, a militia and anything else they can think of.

I'm sure most Americans are smart enough to see through this.


You must be kidding. When you look around, do you really think that most people are seeing through this and thinking it's staged?


Not even close.



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 11:08 PM
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You guys have got to be kidding me. Any time anything bad happens it's a government plot or false-flag or something?

There are sadly lots of crazy people out there on both sides of the political spectrum. Anyone who has been to college knows that guy who talked about the evil corporations man, and how we had to take them down! I'm pretty sure he's not a government plant either because all he did was sit around smoke weed and listen to Rage Against The Machine.

The right has those kind of nutters too. Remember that "Baptist Church" that protests American soldiers' funerals with hate signs against homosexuals? Trust me every real Baptist I've ever met wanted those guys as far away from them as possible.

I am not at all surprised by the ideas of these would-be domestic terrorists. As tragic as it is, there are people out there that think like this and would act upon it.



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 11:56 PM
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it is the true essence of man to be evil
and that if terror does not exist
to create it himself

me



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 12:28 AM
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Feds: Militia members sought to spark uprising
Last of 9 arrested after search in Mich.; they allegedly plotted to kill police

www.msnbc.msn.com...




DETROIT - Nine alleged members of a Christian militia group that was girding for battle with the Antichrist were charged Monday with plotting to kill a police officer and slaughter scores more by bombing the funeral — all in hopes of touching off an uprising against the U.S. government.





Seven men and one woman believed to be part of the Michigan-based Hutaree were arrested over the weekend in raids in Michigan, Indiana and Ohio. The ninth suspect was arrested Monday night after search in rural southern Michigan.


Video of segment: www.msnbc.msn.com...

If ever I saw a 'lizard' man in 'human' costuming.. These people.. All like like reptiles!

xD Serious, we know what's coming. Don't you?



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 12:35 AM
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Having followed this story since it started, let's all keep in mind how many times the story has changed. From official releases over the last several hours, we've heard these raids have been conducted because of...

- This group was selling pipe bombs
- This group was preparing to fight the anti-christ
- This group was preparing to attack Muslims
- This group had WMDs (
)
- This group was threatening politicians

And those are just the ones I remember. It took a good two days before the Feds and MSM decided on a story. Also keep in mind that the Feds were serving Sealed Warrants which means no one has any real idea of what happened or why the Feds raided.

Also these raids were conducted in several different States. If these people had a specific target, why would they be scattered all over the country? Also the Feds claim to have only arrested nine people, if they raided militia members in several different States does it make sense that they'd only grab nine people?

Also let's forget the total media blackout for the first twenty four hours of this story. The mum response from the militias themselves aside from the early very excitable chatter at the beginning. And all the unconfirmed reports that came out before the MSM clamped down and starting selling the official line.

There's also been a media blackout on the current stand-off between the militia man and authorities in the mentioned before in this thread.

I personally hate right-wing groups and gun nuts (although I wholeheartedly support the second) but the Feds and MSM have changed their story so many times in the last few days that it seems like a game of telephone. I personally don't know what's happening but I know what we're being told is wrong.

Think people.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 12:42 AM
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reply to post by Smell The Roses
 


Sounds like the Gov will start viewing Christians as violent people, perhaps domestic terrorists. In all, it really is coming together towards the end times! This "militia" was clearly out of line with their beliefs, though, everyone saved by Christ will be taken up by the Rapture before the end times. No need to prepare for something you wont experience.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 01:20 AM
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CNN just called this militia the Hateriots (patriots)...and said that they claimed they were "preparing for the last fight against the beast".

These guys were supposedly, according to CNN attempting an assassination on someone and then going to bomb the funeral after. The targeted person was a member of congress.

This from the Breaking News segment of 360 on CNN. They also had Tea Party members on Larry King Live tonight.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 02:13 AM
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www.morningjournal.com...


Militia group planned to kill: Blog helps FBI bust Sandusky man


What blog and how did it get him busted?


In 2004, Huron police cited Sickles for four counts of disseminating matter harmful to juveniles for allegedly giving a videotape with a pornographic scene to youths at a Huron eatery. Sickles told police he did not know the people were younger than 18 years of age, according to a Huron police report.

In December 2009, police also took a report about Sickles allegedly posting a video on YouTube.com that simulated him urinating into a coffeepot at the Berlin Road gas station where he worked, according to a Huron police report.

In the video, a "customer" at the gas station buys a cup of coffee and complains it tastes like urine. However, it appeared the video was staged and the "customer" was a participant in the video, the report said.
.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 02:20 AM
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reply to post by JBA2848
 


I think they are talking about the SPLC anti hate blog.

Jeez, this is sounding weaker and weaker.




The only difference from any typical demonstration is we will all be armed,'" according to the Southern Poverty Law Center's "Hatewatch" blog.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 02:35 AM
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The one thing that bothers with me this... and i cant get my grip on it....

These guys where ready to die and kill law enforcement.... they had stockpiles of weapons.....

yet they surrendered to cops instantly. A few of them "ran"... they ran?

I all for believing that a crackpot fringe militia movement tried to assassinate someone, but something doesn't sit right here.

If you're really ready to kill someone, you are also ready to die.

According to the reports these guys are about as insane as school shooters. One common trend of school shooters is that they either shoot themselves before police arrive or have a standoff.

I think this is some scare tactic for other militia's. Kind of like a "dont # with us we are the fed" type deal. Maybe these guys where insane, but i think they abused it to some degree to prove a point to other militia's.

Well see. I would really like to see the evidence, and the verdicts. But knowing our great justice system, its hard to believe anything these days.




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