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How Do You Know Whether Healthcare is Legal or Not?

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posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 08:52 PM
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The whole ordeal over healthcare constitutionality has left me baffled.

People are debating all over the place whether it is constitutional or not.


With a string of state attorneys general filing lawsuits challenging the constitutionality of health care reform, the Cato Institute's Roger Pilon tried to defend their actions in an MSNBC debate. Pilon maintained that the Constitution does not allow for health care reform that was just enacted. Ian Millhiser, policy analyst at the Center for American Progress and a former ACS law clerk, noting recent Supreme Court jurisprudence, said that Congress can regulate "broad and sweeping economic activity," and that "there is a huge market for health care insurances


www.acslaw.org...

How does the average person know what is Constitutional or not?

The Constitution is ambiguous for the most part. Does the average person base constitutionality on what they hear and see, one's own interpretation of what they think the Constitution is saying, or one's own research on how the Constitution has been interpreted in the past?

The latter one seems kind of difficult seeing that most people do not have an educational background in law.(I'm not saying it can't be done) Furthermore, even the SCOTUS, judges, and lawyers have trouble agreeing on what exactly is/isn't constitutional under the constitution.


Judges use their reasoning skills to decide what particular laws mean when they rule on cases. Different judges sometimes use different reasoning skills to interpret the Constitution, meaning that judges do not always agree on the meaning of the Constitution. There are six widely accepted methods of interpretation that shed some light on the meaning of the Constitution.


www.landmarkcases.org...

If the SCOTUS has trouble interpreting the Constitution, then what makes it so easy for the average person to decide what is constitutional or not?


One person's interpretation of the Constitution could be another person's nightmare.


Constitution IQ Test




posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 09:14 PM
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Strictly speaking this health care is illegal. However because of an interpretation of the commerce clause TPTB seem to think that instead of simply overseeing interstate commerce they have the power to force us to but whatever they deem necessary. Judge Andrew Nepalitano and Alex Jones both share this view of the situation, and I trust them more than the gub ment.

Even if this is legal in a stretch of the imagination it sets an unholy precedent. If those "people" think something else will be best for the collective we may be forced to buy into it as well.

[edit on 27-3-2010 by oppaperclip]



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by oppaperclip
 



Judge Andrew Nepalitano and Alex Jones both share this view of the situation, and I trust them more than the gub ment.


Safe to assume that your reason for it being illegal is based on what others say?



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 09:31 PM
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I know "The 10th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America," if I just sort of left it here, would constitute a "1-liner," so I'm not going to do that.

The 10th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

There. Now, if you don't have the high-school-level reading skills to comprehend what it says, get back to me. Otherwise, I think you're a big boy. You can handle it.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 09:33 PM
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Well personally I see it as them overstepping the tenth amendment. Your post is quite true, they are in control of the economy. With that said Walmart is a giant part of the economy so that statement may mean that they can pass a bill on the grounds of making wal mart more accessible. It literally could apply to any part of this nation since we are a consumer based nation. So does it just end with this? That is what concerns me most. Good post OP, open debate with each other with the actual facts mean we won't be runnin around like a chicken with our heads cut off.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 09:35 PM
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Social programs like Social Security and Medicare have usually been justified under the "general welfare" clause of the Constitution (Article 1, Section 8).

The exact meaning of this phrase has evidently been in dispute since the beginning of the country, with some presidents and legislators giving it a more broad interpretation than others.

It's interesting that Barack Obama once taught Constitutional law at the University of Chicago; I assume he is using the more liberal interpretation.

General Welfare Clause

It is my opinion that many people who are shouting about the Constitution on the internet and elsewhere are not concerned with preserving the sanctity of the document per se, but rather in reinforcing their own ideology.

That goes for both sides.


[edit on 27-3-2010 by Sestias]



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by oppaperclip
 



Judge Andrew Nepalitano and Alex Jones both share this view of the situation, and I trust them more than the gub ment.


Safe to assume that your reason for it being illegal is based on what others say?


I admit it looks like that but no. I carry a pocket book that has all our important documents with me all the time. When I'm somewhere I read it like a military smart book. I just used those people as a reference you may know of.

Sorry for the confusion.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by Sestias
 


I don't agree with SS or medicare either. The founding fathers of this great nation just over an over bearing gub ment, why would they want this new experiment to have even greater power to use against us?

General welfare is a general problem such as national defense, covering armies, navies and ensuring our basic rights taken care of.

Freedom isn't have some jerk who thinks they are a leader telling you what you must or must not have.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by oppaperclip
 


NO problem, just didn't want to make a direct assumption.

thanks.

reply to post by Professor Tomorrow
 


There. Now, if you don't have the high-school-level reading skills to comprehend what it says, get back to me. Otherwise, I think you're a big boy. You can handle it.


You really think comments like these are productive in a debate. BTW, the tenth amendment has never stopped any other social programs.

That doesn't mean I don't agree with you to a point.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
How does the average person know what is Constitutional or not?


they can't !!!
cuz they keep making it up as they go along
to suit an agenda

ya know .... kinda like Castro did in Cuba
but wait .... wasn't he a communist????
oh well, bad example .... lmao



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 09:45 PM
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The language of the 10 Amendment to the Bill of Rights says:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

Legal Information Institute

However, Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution would enumerate a "power delegated to the United States by the Constitution," if you take the broader interpretation.


[edit on 27-3-2010 by Sestias]



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by Sestias
 


General welfare- another term that is ambiguous.

General welfare of the United States or general welfare of it people or both?

Who defined general welfare?



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 



cuz they keep making it up as they go along
to suit an agenda


You may very well be on target. After all, isn't that why reps and dems constantly fight to block the others appointee to the SCOTUS?



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 09:56 PM
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It seems as time goes on the broader the interpretation of everything they come across, except the 2nd amendment. Soon general welfare will could include breeding programs to kill out disease. When will we say enough is enough?



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by Sestias
 


General welfare- another term that is ambiguous.

General welfare of the United States or general welfare of it people or both?

Who defined general welfare?



Again, this link is informative:

General Welfare Clause



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 10:03 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 


This isn't a debate. You asked a question. I gave you a reference and told you to make up your own mind.



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by Sestias
 


Yes, I read the source you gave me. However, I seriously doubt a court would attempt to declare healthcare unconstitutional because of the general welfare clause. For one, it would be difficult to justify why social security falls under general welfare but healthcare doesn't.

Your source also shows how even the founding fathers were in disagreement over the exact interpretation of the Constitution they wrote.

This leads me to believe that despite what we believe about the constitution and our rights, it is no doubt open to interpretation. All it takes is one bad interpretation and bye bye rights.

Do we really have the rights to bear arms?

Maybe one day we will find out we don't.



posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 01:22 AM
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It is difficult. But here is how I myself decided that I felt it was completely constitutional.

Article I Section 8 gives Congress the authority to regulate commerce among the several states.

The 10th Amendment does not apply because the major medical insurance companies operate in all 50 states. Which indecently nullifies the GOP idea to let insurance companies operate across state lines, they already do.

The tax issue is not an issue because it is Uniform across the United States.




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