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How would you recongize an attacker?

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posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 10:48 AM
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I am talking about someone who is not showing outward signs of an attack. Of course it is obvious if a guy shows up with a ski mask and a gun and plans to hold up the place, that is pretty obvious.

I am talking about the beserker, the person walking in looking like an average joe, who may be planning on going off.


I work a job that gets people upset. It is a portion of the population that has high rates of mental health issues, and we often get in between people and their money. Not only that, I work reception. I am the first person they see.
We receive threatening letters, emails, and phone calls. The other day someone threatened to come after us.

Most threats are just venting anger. But one of these days, we know they can't. We have two security officers, armed with nothing but the shirt they wear.

My state is extremely anti-gun. So that is out of the question. I keep mace, scissors, and a long letter opener nearby. That is all I am getting. And the mace I am not even supposed to have.

What signals, body language, or clues does a person have, if they are planning on a sneak attack. To get intot he buildign as an average person, but has teh potential to go off?

Thank you for your assistance!




posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 11:06 AM
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Sweat on the brow, when it's not hot.

Sudden darting eye movements.

Although they appear to be calm, there is a "tenseness" about them that you can see and sense.

Looking around as if to take stock of who is around them.

Mostly it's just the "feel" they put out and make you nervous for no apparent reason.

If you think they are strange they probably are.

Go with your gut is the best advice I could give anyone, more often that not, it's correct...even if nothing happens...don't leave that "feeling" and always pay attention to it.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


The best way to spot the "attackers" which are of all sorts, is to recognize the ones that don't make any sense.

If they don't make sense to you, get as far away from them as you can.

The best word to describe them (attackers) is evil.

~ Zeus



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by tribewilder
 


WEll said Tribe, thank you.

Thank you Zeus for your response. Unfortunately, because of the nature of my work, half the people make you go:


Unless there is something specific that your thinking off. Out of curiosity, why do you bring up this point? ARe you thinkiing of a specific cause?


[edit on 27-3-2010 by nixie_nox]



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


The sober detonator tends to withdraw as you never see them being the life and soul of a party they are about to destroy. They might make intermittent eye contact, and you feel a sense of unease pass from them to you or vice versa as the human capacity to recognise dangerous intents in others should not be underestimated as it is a very powerful sense. However in the modern age we are taught to ignore it or to think of it as irrational paranoia.

Some signs to look out for from my own experience...

1) Tense and withdrawn even slightly but remaining in your general proximity.

2) Intermittent eye contact and what contact there is fleeting without human connection and is not maintained because if it was then their intent would become much more obvious.

3) Alarm bells will start going off and it is wise to just go with the feeling because in built protective senses are telling you something you really need to listen to. If it is a false alarm all you risk is embarrassment which is always better than a broken beer bottle stabbed into the face.

4) Loitering in positions where it would be to their advantage to easily gain the upper hand like off to the side or to the rear. As it happens I take this last part very seriously as I do not allow men to loiter behind me and if they do then I change position to maintain my sense of security. It is a part of my compulsive disorder so it is automatic for me to counter such behaviours with my own. If a man is walking behind me I stop and wait off to the side until he has passed and I do not care if it makes me look like a threat to him because what matters is that he is not a potential threat to me.

I know men inherently and in general terms I do not like them very much!

In the end all of the above and yet none of it too paradoxically because the human mind when set to explosive violence is not something that can really be numbered on a hit list of potential dangers as I would think that it would need to be something that comes from experience.

Sometimes there is no protection from such men as some are very adept at hiding their true intent and these are the ones who will slip through the net. The type I refer to are the men that happily engage in conversation and wait for a verbal response before suddenly and without warning strike and break a jaw with an elbow. I have seen that and It is horrible and utterly shocking.

To be blunt all the above said but I would think you would find it of much more benefit to book yourself onto a course of self defence rather than ask for advice on the subject in an online forum because no offence to my fellow forumites but the advice offered has to be accurate and vetted by a professional as life and limb really depends on such advice.




[edit on 27-3-2010 by SmokeJaguar67]



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:34 PM
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Several of you have made similar points, your gut instinct would sound alarms.

Good thing I listen to my gut. IT is not always right(have yet to win the lottery) but it grows stronger either way.

it is a remarkable mechanism. Like when you come across someone perfectly nice but something about them just bothers you.

How does it work? Is it the higher functions of your brain recongizing chemical smells, minute signs, and actions that you don't recongize consciously?

It is partly psychic, you just register negative or harmful vibes?

Thanks for the input everyone. My next step is studying more on the best course of action. Drop on the floor and crawl away if someone should pull a weapon?

When I get a chance, I do a mental survey of my area and think about what could be an escape, a course of action, or just a hiding spot.

Prepardeness is the key to survival.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:52 PM
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Nicely put Smoke.

I agree explosive violence is terrorizing and traumatizing. I have learned how to be safe in my immediate vicinity. I refer to it as my Mime box The space just past arms length surrounding me. If someone is going to melt down there is not much I can do. However I can do plenty to ensure my Mime Box of safety. This safety is lessened if seated behind a desk or counter where people approach you but there are things you can do.

I will assume you are at a desk and chair. Some tips include:

My rule is to stay alert and poised when in the seated position. That is, do not collapse fully relaxed into the chair. My instructor says the backs of chairs are for hanging coats on, not our bodies.

Seat yourself in a forward position, back straight head up, feet on the floor ready to quickly stand up if needed. As well, I would ensure as open an area that is possible behind your chair for quick retreat or push off if your chair has wheels. Practice a few shove offs in the morning or after people have left. Some chairs will roll back pretty far and if you are seated in a forward position, with feet on floor, you can push harder with your legs.

If the evil doer has a gun then trouble for everyone around. If just a melee weapon than putting space between you and the attacker is the best defense.

My instructor says that attackers will first give themselves away in the shoulder areas I like to look at the shoulders for tension or twitchy movements.

Use splatter vision. That is allow your eyes to dart around inside and out scrutinize every detail. If someone looks sketchy look outside to see if he has backup. Hoods, hats, long coats, sunglasses, or any other out of ordinary clothing patterns that might be used to avoid cameras or conceal weapons should be scrutinized.

I think if I was worried about my safety I would have lots of things on my desk to improvise as weapons. Some nice large paper weights, book ends, maybe even a cane, or a heavy metal lamp that could be used as a thumper. Small fire extinguishers in your drawer can really project quite far and would be a good deterrent.

If I was you (assuming you are female) I would probably avoid high heels or other awkward footwear. Flats or comfortable shoes to be more mobile with makes better sense if you are concerned for your safety.

A good defense course sounds like a good idea to boost your confidence and lower your anxiety levels. Combined with these tips you should if nothing else feel a little more safe.

Good luck

Keep your nose in the wind and your eyes along the skyline


[edit on 27-3-2010 by sparrowstail]



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 

I have worked with the public for years. My late night jobs put me in contact with a whole host of characters. I watch the eyes, body, hands the whole person. I check out the car they pulled up in, how they parked etc. They have my complete attention.

If you hear something that sounds like a backfire hit the deck. Modern cars don't seem to backfire as much as they use to. It's better to be down low than be the one up looking around.

I survived Gary, Indiana which at one point had the highest crime rate in the nation. If someone isn't acting right go with your gut. A moments hesitation or too much reasoning can get you killed. Let the animal in you kick in and run like hell. Who cares how it looks if you hit the floor or sneak away. If nothing happens your actions can easily be explained..."I had to go vomit."

Be aware yet discreet keep a poker face. Be ready to act fast. Keep a safe distance. Never ever deviate from your "rules." The element of surprise puts us at a disadvantage with these guys. I'm sorry if I'm making it sound like you have to treat everyone like a possible suspect. You don't have to be rude or stand offish at all just have a set of safety rules that applies to absolutely everyone. Most won't even notice what you're doing.

Now I live in the country lots of critters out here but I'm use to watching my back. I think the two legged creatures are the ones we have to fear the most. Above all keep yourself safe. It's better to be alive and a little embarrassed than a dead second guesser.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


Raises in voice (although in a financial institution, this doesn't = to attack) twitches. Sudden looking around, in a darting manner. Shaking, muscle twitches.

Sudden movements.. In the fasion that if they put something on the desk, it seems like they throw it. This includes jerking of the hands.


I've seen these all prior to a guy trying to punch me. Recognizing these signs helped me know to step back as he tried to.

By the way I should note these are more signs of anger.

But if someone is trying to steal, shallow breathing, stuttering, will show if their not hardened criminals.

But if they are, then nothing is going to tell you when it will happen.



[edit on 27-3-2010 by Miraj]



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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I like smokes reply....

I can't put into words "my way" so I offer a scene.

Two dogs that have never seen each other...just seam to know from, large distances that they are going to fight, before, anyone else does.
I think it's a chemical, maybe pharamone type, communications, or something of that nature, but in short...yeah go with your gut.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 01:37 PM
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no two experiences will ever be alike
but there was this one time when in a store and this guy was standing way in a back corner all by himself, not shopping head down watching all the customers come and go... I did remark to the teller, watch that guy he's acting strange... sure enough the next time I went in that teller would say, "You were right about him, tried to rob us right after you walked out!"



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by DaddyBare
 


We do occassionally get the guy in the lobby with the hood up and head down just sitting there. I know a lot of atsers view cloth requirements as a form of censorship, but I can see why a lot of places don't like them.

You have someone sitting there in a big hoodie, face is covered and hidden, and who knows what is hidden inside the jacket.


as far as heels go, I don't wear "high"heels. But I figure a heel itself can serve as a weapon.
Many females wouldn't think of this, but I have enough sense that if I have to bolt, to kick off the shoes.


That is one of the reasons that companies who did evactuation time estimates greatly under estimate them. Women wearing heels. People carrying their belongings slowing them down and taking up room. It got hot and people had to stop to peel off clothing.People stopping to gather their belongings in teh first place. I think for the towers they estimated something like a minute and a half for each person for each floor, when it ended up being like 4. I will have to go back and look up the exact numbers. Same with plane evacuation estimates, it is always much longer then any computer or person estimates. Peoples stuff, large people not moving as fast, or a senior. There are lot of factors that are not considered.

In fact, I read a story that witnesses reported seeing piles of heels on landings in the stairwell in the towers as they were climbing down. The wrong shoe can hinder someone quite a bit. Someone must of kicked theirs off, then others saw it and it prompted them to take theirs off, ending up in a shoe collection.

Sorry, got sidetracked.

I asked our security why they can't carry any kind of weapon. It is because our director doesn't want to send the wrong kind of message to the clients.

*shakes head*

There are batons that collapse and can be hidden. I can understand mace, as it isn't that big fo a place and basically you would be taking everyone out. But to insist on nothing, then why have security in the first place.

[edit on 27-3-2010 by nixie_nox]



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 03:00 PM
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Do not trust anyone you don't know.

Expect anyone who walks into your office to be capable of attacking you.

After thirty-nine years of dealing with the public I have learned that there are not always outward signs that clearly let you know a person will attack you.

Always be ready to protect yourself.

Possible attackers can be out going, articulate, charming and well dressed.
Not everything is as it appears.

Watch your back, sides and front.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 11:43 AM
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I'm sorry, but I dont care what your STATE says about guns.

Its our 2nd ammendment right! Doesnt the constitution mean anything anymore?

Sorry, with that being said, even in crappy gun states like Cali (shakes head in disgust) if you are in a job where people have a tendency to lose their cool, you can most likely acquire a CCW permit. Especially since you're a female. Do you have any cops in the family? Maybe a friend in LE? They would be the one to steer you in the right direction.

My dad recently was able to obtain his CCW permit, not in Los Angeles, he had to go to a neighboring county thats friendlier towards such things. He used the excuse that he owns a business and sometimes has to go to the bank to make large deposits.

He keeps a small easily concealable pistol in his briefcase, down under his desk. Our office happens to be on the borderline of a nice area, and the GHETTO. We get gang member types coming in all the time asking about jobs, saying they need work etc... in reality they are just walking in to size everyone up and see if anything is worth taking (computers etc)

I can tell you my dad says he feels sooo much safer when he works late nights and hes at the office by himself, knowing his piece is never more than a few inches away.

Sorry to drag this on, but to answer your question;

I think as everyone else mentioned, situational awareness is always the key. Most people will be so caught up in their lives and routines, they wont even notice the odd guy with the hood. Make it your job to notice everything, dont be afraid to second guess people. And importantly always ALWAYS have a plan. Even if it just consists of you diving out of the way and running. Any plan is better than no plan, and sometimes you can even have a little fun when you have a minute or so of down time each day. Ask yourself, if situation X occurs, I'll do Y. Who knows, it could save your life.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 12:57 PM
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Yeah you can use all these things to help ID a potential attacker but that does not really help you at all. At work or in life there is no such thing as a justified preemptive attack, the fact is nobody is an attacker untill they attack you. From the wy it sounds it looks like you are always on your toes, why add to this suspense?
Just stay behind your desk and if anyone ever leans over call the security guard over, or talk to them and ask them to come by if someone ever gets too close.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 01:54 PM
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SmokeJaguar67 already mentioned this- EYE CONTACT....

I ran pawnshops for 18 years, some in VERY rough neighborhoods, 1 in Shreveport, La. where we heard gunshots in the parking lot and surrounding neighborhood almost daily. One thing I learned early on, trying to boost our safety awareness, was greeting and eye contact.

Friendly smile, look them straight in the eyes, and greet. Like you mean it. "How are you today" etc.... Criminals or people about to go rogue HATE eye contact. Even if you are busy or on the phone you can still cup your hand over the phone quickly and greet. Without a doubt we spooked shoplifters and robbers or people casing the joint by killing them with kindness.

What about tasers or pepper spray, carry those in your purse???

EDIT to add: Forgot to mention this (it's not racist folks just fact) If They're Wearing A Hood They're Up To No Good!


[edit on 30-3-2010 by Signals]



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 01:59 AM
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Do you have rooms you can retreat to.
(this also applies to homes)

You need something like the Door Security Bar.
www.amazon.com...
cgi.ebay.com...

I have one for each of my doors and a extra one i carry when i travel for the motel room door.

If some one get violent retreat to the room and bar the door and wait for the police.



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 07:34 AM
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You should go out and buy one of those stainless steel rulers. Could be placed on your desk without anybody even noticing.

Strange as it might sound, you may want to spend an hour with the ruler or whatever covert office armament you choose to work out the best way to pick it up quickly and use it under normal at work circumstances.



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 10:24 AM
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It’s the thought of the unknown that makes you scared. Every situation is different so you never know what is going to happen.

Most important thing to remember. Treat every person you see as a potential attacker. Never let your guard down.
Have a well thought out plan to defend yourself and have an escape route.
Take self defense courses to boost your confidence.
Everything around you can be used as a weapon or a distraction. Throw a stapler at the attackers head and when he puts his arms up to block, drive the scissors into his throat.
Keep an eye on people’s hands at all times.



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 10:35 AM
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Also i wanted to add. Put one of these on your desk and always keep it in reach. And keep an extra in a drawr

www.coldsteel.com...



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