It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Mindless Barbarian : Brains Beats Brawn, Learn To Think, Violence Is The Answer?

page: 4
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in


posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 06:50 AM

Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

My friend I know you can see what's going on. Haven't we been conditioned to accept that violence is the answer? Haven't we all been taught that through the brave actions of our founding fathers, who were revolutionaries, that our country was founded? At the end of a musket or sword or cannon.

Yes, indeed we have, through Hollywood and events like the World Trade Organization protest, in 1999.

A powerful movie that shows the corruption within Seattle and W.T.O. called Battle in Seattle.

It showed how politician's used Law Enforcement to illegally suppress the people's right to peaceful and lawful protest, in regards to the World Trade Organization.

Battle in Seattle - Trailer

Quote from : Wikipedia : World Trade Organization

The World Trade Organization (WTO) is an international organization designed by its founders to supervise and liberalize international trade.

The organization officially commenced on January 1, 1995 under the Marrakech Agreement, replacing the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT), which commenced in 1947.

The World Trade Organization deals with regulation of trade between participating countries; it provides a framework for negotiating and formalising trade agreements, and a dispute resolution process aimed at enforcing participants' adherence to WTO agreements which are signed by representatives of member governments and ratified by their parliaments.

Most of the issues that the WTO focuses on derive from previous trade negotiations, especially from the Uruguay Round (1986-1994).

The organization is currently endeavouring to persist with a trade negotiation called the Doha Development Agenda (or Doha Round), which was launched in 2001 to enhance equitable participation of poorer countries which represent a majority of the world's population.

However, the negotiation has been dogged by "disagreement between exporters of agricultural bulk commodities and countries with large numbers of subsistence farmers on the precise terms of a 'special safeguard measure' to protect farmers from surges in imports.

At this time, the future of the Doha Round is uncertain."

The WTO has 153 members, representing more than 97% of total world trade and 30 observers, most seeking membership.

The WTO is governed by a ministerial conference, meeting every two years; a general council, which implements the conference's policy decisions and is responsible for day-to-day administration; and a director-general, who is appointed by the ministerial conference.

The WTO's headquarters is at the Centre William Rappard, Geneva, Switzerland.

Originally posted by jackflap
Don't we actually desire to see the violence and mayhem? Look at what the ratings are for violent action films and the debauchery we applaud by accepting what is fed to us continually. Over time we have been taught to embrace this carnage. Watch how the MSM shows us the newest and best killing systems that our governments are building. Supposedly for our protection.

I cannot speak for anyone else but myself.

Violence, mayhem, as movie plots are fine, but using violence as a means to force change, is ridiculous, using it as a last resort, after all other methods are exhausted however is more along the lines of the way I think, personally.

As for the Mainstream Media, they are puppets to the Government, repeat the message.

The message is chaos, disorder, and hatred, and then Government steps in to dissuade you, to calm you, to tell you it will all be okay, once Uncle Sam has it under control.

Originally posted by jackflap
Look at how we fall into the mindset that has been pounded into our brains over time. We don't stop to consider how much money those fancy killing systems cost to develop and deploy and maintain. Those resources could go toward fomenting a much better foreign relations policy. Instead we praise our technology and desire to see those killing systems deployed against those that supposedly oppose us.

I consider those financial costs immediately and the benefit of them verses a better foreign policy.

Usually, I see the foreign policy lacking, and those policy makers, lacking.

I do understand the necessity for weaponry and training soldiers, however, if foreign policy was less open to stupidity, if the United Nations was not a hindrance.

Added bureaucracy only makes more red tape and more confusion.

Besides, the United Nations is dead, it has never followed the original vision of the founders.

Originally posted by jackflap
Hasn't our religions even pitted us against eachother in the same manner? Isn't that what is going on right now as we speak? Haven't we been taught that it is kill or be killed? Freedom is not free we are told. What freedom is it that we are actually fighting for? The freedom for our governments to oppress us even more and demand that the machine of control is maintained?

Religion is just one more system of control, period, and through a passive message.

Control mechanisms are made to seem altruistic while they cage you.

Freedom is not free, but neither does it have to cost us everything, it is indeed something people take far too much for granted, and they lack the foresight.

Originally posted by jackflap
The supposed authority on the subject remains strangely silent as the war machine marches ever onward. I am talking about the Vatican. Well, they conveniently are embroiled in another affair right now and they do not have the time to address the world and offer reason. I submit that they are complicit in the conditioning and control that we find ourselves subject to.

Considering the Vatican is run by an ex-Nazi youth I have little else to say about that organization.

Conditioning, control, collusion, all parts of the religion of Rome.

And considering the Vatican assisted Hitler during WWII we're not making a stretch there.

Now are we?

Originally posted by jackflap
You see, they want us to resort to the violence. Far be it from anyone in power to offer peace. The violence is what strengthens them by initiating the fear of it all. When we feel we have been wronged by those in power, we lash out in violence. They then have a reason to further their surveillance of us and imprison us. It is for our own good. What else can you do with such an unruly populace?

The Hegelian Dialectic, abstract, negative concrete fits into that nicely.

An abstract idea as freedom, the negative of losing it, and concrete of having lost it through False-Flag Operation's, makes us all complicit of our own demise.

If we do not refuse to accept those lies Washington D.C. or the U.N. sells, we are irresponsible.

Originally posted by jackflap
We need rfid chips, we need airport scanners, we need cameras all over the place, we need to give up our privacy. We need to understand that those in power cannot do the job of protecting us if we do not allow all and more of these measures. Meanwhile they provoke the violence and play on religions that they have successfully instilled in the masses.

But all of those things you have mentioned are subsidized under corporations and Government.

Bypassing the Constitution through fear driven doctrine and a mentality akin to a cow escaping the barn, so lock the barn afterward, which is ignorant completely.

They are funded, researched, and will be implemented through Government.

Under the National Emergency Act after either real events or False-Flag Operation's.

Originally posted by jackflap
Continue on as usual and go to work. In fact after the nine eleven attacks they told us that if we wanted to get back at those demonic terrorists, go to work. They'll take care of everything. Just go to work and that's how you get back at them in your own little way. We'll do the rest.

And that is about as useful as standing there while the robber is running away.

Either file a Police Report after getting robbed, follow-up with the report and Officer, or you are allowing the red tape to keep you from getting your wallet back.

I want a real investigation not the sham of the 9/11 Commission.

Originally posted by jackflap
Through years of nefarious foreign relations and covert operations they have all but destroyed what the will of the American people really is. They have destroyed what man really is. They have created a monster that they control and control it they will. They will drive that monster to its demise and stand over it and tell it that it got what it wanted all along.

They in fact will be the only ones who can keep what is left of mankind alive and it was by design.

But if we never stood up for ourselves and no one believes they have the right to do so, then how can we be expected to know, which does not give us an excuse but merely a lack of knowing that we have that right, collectively.

Yes, by design, they let this monster loose, and will cage it for a fee.

That fee is your freedom, your security, your identification, you as a number.

A bar code on the back of the head or a bio-chip in your wrist, your choice.

After all, they do not control your thoughts, yet, my friend, yet.

But they will once all of the dark secrets are implemented, they will.

If we do not stop them through intelligence instead of violence, and Deny Ignorance.

[edit on 28-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 07:27 AM

Emotional intelligence From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Emotional Intelligence (EI) describes the ability, capacity, skill or, in the case of the trait EI model, a self-perceived ability, to identify, assess, and manage the emotions of one's self, of others, and of groups.[1] Different models have been proposed for the definition of EI and disagreement exists as to how the term should be used.[2] Despite these disagreements, which are often highly technical, the ability EI and trait EI models (but not the mixed models) enjoy support in the literature and have successful applications in different domains.

This is the main problem. Though many may be bright few have emotional intelligence, IM humble O.

This man wrote quite an interesting book on the subject.

Daniel Goleman

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Daniel Goleman (born March 7, 1946) is an author, psychologist, and science journalist. For twelve years, he wrote for The New York Times, specializing in psychology and brain sciences. Goleman appeared on CSPAN Booktv in April 2009 to discuss his most recent book, "Ecological Intelligence: How Knowing the Hidden Impacts of What We Buy Can Change Everything".[1]


Goleman authored the internationally best-selling book, Emotional Intelligence (1995, Bantam Books), that spent more than one-and-a-half years on the New York Times Best Seller list. Goleman developed the argument that non-cognitive skills can matter as much as I.Q. for workplace success in "Working with Emotional Intelligence" (1998, Bantam Books), and for leadership effectiveness in "Primal Leadership" (2001, Harvard Business School Press). Goleman's most recent best-seller is Social Intelligence: The New Science of Human Relationships (2006, Bantam Books).

Da book isa mentuned

People are swayed by there emotions a lot easier then they are by logic...

A good example was a thread I was tempted to post but never did.

Taking a stand

A long time ago fifty five men made a commitment to freedom.

"When in the course..."

They wrote a letter.

Then they signed it.

Then they sent it to their rulers via snail mail.

It started a small fight...

So i hear a lot of people say revolt. I am also hearing a lot of people saying oh be quiet. Quit whining we won so their...

Unfortunately I can not, it seems I was cursed with a need to speak.

"You are trading liberty for freedom. Then you want trade mine as well."

Allow yourself to feel what I feel. Do you see the chains coming..

I know its early for fireworks. My freedom is just about all I have left. Even that they are trying to take. I cant help but wonder what if the christmas truce had held. What if the men decided NO. Can you imagine? What if they stood up to tyranny?

Someone here asked i was trying to get myself killed. You know they will come after you for this right...

Then they said screw it Im in..

The best words I could respond with. Well I leave you with a thought to those saying stop your whining.

The Vids combined with the words if you notice. Right about now you should be feeling several strong emotions.

Look to my actions, not the words. I actually said little to nothing but your mind assumes and fills in the blanks.

High emotional content with little substance. You must began a self journey. No matter how new age it sounds and begin a process of learning to think for yourself.

I dont mean to destroy warm fuzzies you might just have generated but imagine some much better then me and trained...

Brains over brawn...

Ask Sun Tzu

[edit on 28-3-2010 by ripcontrol]

[edit on 28-3-2010 by ripcontrol]

[edit on 28-3-2010 by ripcontrol]

posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 09:46 AM
As if the whole of the western world has been awaiting the wisdom Sun Tzu. Not that something couldnt be learned from the man but the basic foundation of his teachings have been widely known and used for centures.

Here a good one written many many years ago....

TextSo Joshua and the army of Israel set out to attack Ai. Joshua chose thirty thousand fighting men and sent them out at night with these orders: "Hide in ambush close behind the city and be ready for action. When our main army attacks, the men of Ai will come out to fight as they did before, and we will run away from them. We will let them chase us until they have all left the city. For they will say, `The Israelites are running away from us as they did before.' Then you will jump up from your ambush and take possession of the city, for the LORD your God will give it to you. .....So they stationed the main army north of the city and the ambush west of the city.

When the king of Ai saw the Israelites across the valley, he and all his army hurriedly went out early the next morning and attacked the Israelites at a place overlooking the Jordan Valley. [fn] But he didn't realize there was an ambush behind the city.........

Joshua and the Israelite army fled toward the wilderness as though they were badly beaten, and all the men in the city were called out to chase after them. In this way, they were lured away from the city.

There was not a man left in Ai or Bethel [fn] who did not chase after the Israelites, and the city was left wide open.

As soon as Joshua gave the signal, the men in ambush jumped up and poured into the city. They quickly captured it and set it on fire. When the men of Ai looked behind them, smoke from the city was filling the sky, and they had nowhere to go. For the Israelites who had fled in the direction of the wilderness now turned on their pursuers. When Joshua and the other Israelites saw that the ambush had succeeded and that smoke was rising from the city, they turned and attacked the men of Ai.

Then the Israelites who were inside the city came out and started killing the enemy from the rear. So the men of Ai were caught in a trap, and all of them died. Not a single person survived or escaped. -Josh

There are many other sources to draw from.

[edit on 28-3-2010 by Logarock]

posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 09:48 AM
reply to post by Logarock

What you say is not even remotely close to reality my friend.
Will you think the same when violence is used on you or your family?
Strategy too is a form of violence; it is the intellectual side of violence and gives you the upper hand to destroy your enemies.

posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 10:00 AM
reply to post by Mr.Jcury

Man you have no idea of my reality, what I am willing to do or not. But like I have said clearly violence wouldnt be my first option. But I refuse to be intimidated by you non-violent cowards.

You want to use your head fine. But dont try to limit the thing by whats in your head. I suspect someone will have to put a boot in you rear just to get you out of the way if the crap ever hits the fan.

And whiel we are at, there are some here that like to make a big deal out of being Marines. Well I to served in the Marines and in an infantry capacity. Highly trained my friend. And to me OP sounds like a plastic vantastic. 1st btln 2nd.

posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 01:27 PM
reply to post by Logarock

Man you have no idea of my reality, what I am willing to do or not. But like I have said clearly violence wouldnt be my first option. But I refuse to be intimidated by you non-violent cowards. You want to use your head fine. But dont try to limit the thing by whats in your head. I suspect someone will have to put a boot in you rear just to get you out of the way if the crap ever hits the fan. And whiel we are at, there are some here that like to make a big deal out of being Marines. Well I to served in the Marines and in an infantry capacity. Highly trained my friend. And to me OP sounds like a plastic vantastic. 1st btln 2nd.

I was going to run an experiment of sorts with this post you made but I have since figured better. Let me explain a few things that some may not have grasped first. Defending yourself is not an initiated act of violence on your part.

The idea of the art of war is to use your head to see the violence that will be at your doorstep shortly. Get to know that adversary. Understand what its motivations are and its goals. Find common ground with that adversary. Even befriend that adversary.

At this point you can offer the adversary another avenue of approach to its goals. Now, you knowing what the goals are, and the avenues of approach, you can thwart them plans non violently. The adversary will more than likely not even know that you had a hand in its undoing.

It will more than likely seek advice from its new friend and now who is in control? Self defense is self defense when confronted immediately and their is no time to formulate a plan like this. So self defense is non violence on your part.

[edit on 28-3-2010 by jackflap]

posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 02:49 PM

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Your link to the Art of War by Sun Tzu is not working, here is one that I have used for the basic outline, without a bunch of interpretations by the translator.

I fixed the link, thanks for bringing that to my attention, and thanks for your links.

Originally posted by endisnighe
My study of the Art of War, began about 34 years ago cussing and discussing things with my father. I never read it until I was in college but observations to action-reaction and the relationships to this very basic scientific fact is garnered in numerous observations.

I particularly used this study in my business first and in managing sub-contractors.

Each and every time something came along my stepfather taught me.

While I read about Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece as a means of learning history, he taught me the meanings, through example of each incident which happened.

As I dealt with bullies, incidents where I had my ass kicked, a lecture about what to do differently, or how to think differently was a complex discussion. The treatises of Sun Tzu are complex, but at the same time basic common sense when using the situation, and those events, the ground itself, the items available as weapons or alternate weapons.

And choke-point's, using them effectively, as well as noticing everything.

In other words, the Power of Observation, the power to see each nuance of the enemy, whether they were engaging me, or another person, I was taught to examine, everything going on, and engage as necessary, or not necessary.

Originally posted by endisnighe
One must see the outcomes before an action can be taken. Cause and effect. I find it ironic that some people cannot even TRY to understand asking questions if a certain route should be taken. They cannot understand why one would even postulate taking an action, be it far fetched or just something simple.

The government has set up think tanks that have done things exactly as I have here at ATS. Ask WHAT IF.

Basically, through the premise of the Art of War, my stepfather taught me how to think like a detective, to break down an event into it's intricacies, examine motive, means, opportunity, content, context, and intent, and know what to do.

Originally posted by endisnighe
By the responses I have received on these journeys into the possible, you come across individuals that have been placed in boxes that there is no way they can be removed. They CANNOT think outside the box by the programming that has been instilled in them. They do not even ask themselves if it is moral or even logically possible. They give these conditioned response almost like Pavlovian trained rats in a maze. I believe that is why I become so frustrated with people that cannot think outside their Pavlovian maze that society has created for them.

Life is what YOU make of it, unless YOU are that rat in the maze.

Of course, boxes, or those we allow ourselves to be placed into, make us inflexible.

Are You "Right-Wing Fringe", or "Left-Wing Fringe" and How Will They Push You

I created the thread above with that in mind, it is exactly how the Government, as a whole, with individual people within Government, see us as citizens.

As "left-wing" or "right-wing" we are examined as merely a subject.

Our actions are seen through information databases and our capabilities are seen.

Within the thread I just linked, is a story, where fifteen teenagers intended to kill me.

Their lack of intelligence infuriated me because they could not comprehend I knew their actions.

It came down to a battle, where I brought a chain, after exhausting all other resources.

I outsmarted them without using the chain and laid a complex trap and they fell into it, hook, line, and sinker, and I defeated them, by only thinking and maneuvering.

Every choice I made after that one incident was all downhill and easy.

Once you have been hunted by a group as a rabbit, and outsmart the foxes, you never forget.

A rabbit can outsmart the fox, if the rabbit only thinks, and does not blindly panic.

A simple book to read and suggest to other people as a means to stop being the rat in a maze, was a gift from a friend, because he had seen I was stuck in a rut.

Who Moved My Cheese?: An Amazing Way to Deal with Change in Your Work and in Your Life

Amazon Review :

Change can be a blessing or a curse, depending on your perspective.

The message of Who Moved My Cheese? is that all can come to see it as a blessing, if they understand the nature of cheese and the role it plays in their lives.

Who Moved My Cheese? is a parable that takes place in a maze.

Four beings live in that maze: Sniff and Scurry are mice--nonanalytical and nonjudgmental, they just want cheese and are willing to do whatever it takes to get it.

Hem and Haw are "littlepeople," mouse-size humans who have an entirely different relationship with cheese.

It's not just sustenance to them; it's their self-image.

Their lives and belief systems are built around the cheese they've found.

Most of us reading the story will see the cheese as something related to our livelihoods--our jobs, our career paths, the industries we work in--although it can stand for anything, from health to relationships.

The point of the story is that we have to be alert to changes in the cheese, and be prepared to go running off in search of new sources of cheese when the cheese we have runs out.

Dr. Johnson, coauthor of The One Minute Manager and many other books, presents this parable to business, church groups, schools, military organizations--anyplace where you find people who may fear or resist change.

And although more analytical and skeptical readers may find the tale a little too simplistic, its beauty is that it sums up all natural history in just 94 pages: Things change.

They always have changed and always will change.

And while there's no single way to deal with change, the consequence of pretending change won't happen is always the same: The cheese runs out.

--Lou Schuler

Originally posted by endisnighe
One who studies human psychology, which is everyone if they just observe day to day interactions of humans, can only see what is within their very society's preconditioned box. Try it once, scream out something in a large department store and see the people's reaction. A girlfriend, her daughter and I were in a Kmart store once, the daughter yelled out something and the girlfriend tried quieting her down. Instead I yelled out also and it defused the situation. I really missed them two. I hope the daughter still tries to think outside the box like I tried to impart.

Back to the discussion at hand. There are thousands upon thousands of ways to cause a reaction. The hard part is, is to get the correct action to cause the correct reaction you are trying to impart.

Of course, a recent film and a man being trained comes to mind, in the Art of War.

Batman Begins: Training Scene - The Will to Act

That particular scene explains a lot to anyone willing to listen.

And the Art of War is just as powerful to a Samurai as to a Ninja.

The lesson is the difference of application only because of the nature of warfare.

Originally posted by endisnighe
The government rather enjoys using this component. If you run a company or anything and you lead people. They must be angered (emotional) into believing their is a reward. It does not mean there is a reward, just that they believe there is a reward. Anyone think the HC bill is a good analogy for this. Or any of the other FREE or SOCIALIST things they PROMISE?

I think everyone that does not see where I come from, in my absolute disdain for government in general, needs to read the Art of War. You ACTUALLY may see that the government uses it day in and day out AGAINST YOU.

Maybe we should write a breakdown of the Art of War here at ATS in the collaborative writing section. Or the closed off section.

That's a great idea, possibly in the Research Forum, and later ask for it to be moved into the Survival Forum, with the explanation that it is as a means of self-defense.

You know my thoughts on Government, it is simply a control mechanism.

If you can out-think a control mechanism, and I can, you can outsmart Government.

Originally posted by endisnighe
Apply it to how our government uses each of these rules of war against (or to control) it's very own citizens.

As always SKL, It has been a pleasure.

[edit on 3/27/2010 by endisnighe]

Of course, endisnighe, or course.

Either be the rat trapped in a maze or figure out the maze, or walk away from the maze.

The choice is ours and no one else's.

Many people believe they know how to think but not many actually do it.

Think, use the brain between our ears, it was given to us without a instruction manual.

This is because we are to write our own instruction manual's for our life.

With the information we put into our heads and how we use it to our gain or loss.

If fear is present know it's meaning and use it to your advantage or else you fail.

I do not fail, I win, no matter what.

It is a means to an end and a way to flow through events.

If we allow ourselves to be placed within a box we are only limited to those confines.

See the box, think inside it, outside it, and smash the box and start over.

Be the box or be trapped inside it.

It is our choice and our choice alone to let others place us within it.

Deny Ignorance.

[edit on 28-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

posted on Mar, 28 2010 @ 03:19 PM

Originally posted by JamesTheScribe
I tend to agree that The Art Of War is meant to be a "manual" to proper strategic thinking, as well as out-thinking your perceived enemy. One of the most valuable texts in history. One thing that I would like to add is that while the "barbarians" typically act through violence, which is a by-product of ignorance, there is no reason to conclude that if you are a thinking individual you must shun the idea of arming yourself.

I own firearms (2 in fact) and I have never needed to use them...but as long as at least one other person on this planet is armed, I will be as well. I would put forth the argument that it IS civilized to own a firearm to protect yourself and your family...and not doing so would be least in this day and age.

Besides, when you're in a life or death situation, and seconds count...the cops are only minutes away.


Of course, I own two Glock 17's and a shotgun, arming yourself is mandatory.

Among many other tools, implements, and items I can use.

Being armed, mentally is primary, and with a physical implement, is secondary.

A gun is just a tool and the means to use it and when is the weapon.

When it comes to Gun Rights discussions I usually do not engage because people get so engaged, that they lose the sight of the fact that a gun is just a tool.

It is nothing more than a means of backing up your words, mind, and defense.

Nothing more, nothing less, a tool an implement, to use or not use.

My right to own them is nothing without knowing how to use them.

Most people do not know that the origin of Ninja weaponry is that they were farm implements, used as a last resort, and a means to blend in, and fight oppression.

Samurai were the Law Enforcement within Asia and Ninja were the Freedom Fighters.

A gun is nothing more than a tool and know when, how, and why to use it, and the opposite.

When, how, and not to use it and use your brain to know when to overcome.

reply to post by randyvs

Nice video.

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
The problem with this topic is that the people who should read it won't read it, or can't.

So it is like teaching a wild dog to not bite.

[edit on 27-3-2010 by ALLis0NE]

Yes, you are correct, but possibly someone will learn, and one can hope.

People need to have the opportunity even if it is not taken.

And all dogs have their day.

The question is whether we are a loyal servant or a cur who bites when struck.

Or our own masters.

I am my own master and follow no one.

I was taught to lead, think, and know when to apply both together.

[edit on 28-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 07:11 AM
I don't think I like what the facts are telling me so far.

For example, why was this thread "disappeared" yesterday, and suddenly "resurrected" today? Was it a sheer coincidence that the thread disappeared before that FBI raid against some militia, and reappeared after the raid was over, or is there something to the timing of those two (completely unrelated?) events?

Now, I'm not a U.S. citizen, and I have no interest in FBI's business (as long as the FBI doesn't have any interest in mine), and I have no idea if those militia "officers" are guilty of any crimes, so I'm not going to dive into that kind of discussion.

But I can say that only pretty dumb people would accept becoming any kind of "officers" in any militia these days. Those places are trap holes, and rarely anyone ever climbs out of them.

I have nothing against militias myself, mind you. They, by the way, don't even exist in my country, but if they did I'd only join one if I wanted to learn to use automatic weapons... and get the hell out of there while there was still time.

To be completely honest, we did have something called "territorial defense", which was completely unarmed branch of a civilian disaster relief program... which somehow turned armed with the help of foreign (meaning - U.S. and Germany) help in order to break down the country. So, as you can see, I can understand if the U.S. government doesn't want to suffer the same fate as former Yugoslavia did... but # happens all the time, even to the greatest.

I mean, just look at Ancient Rome... whose fasces symbols the U.S. senate is actively using to this very day (right behind the chairman's seat back there... see?), or Italy (pure fascism) and Germany (the Nazi variation of it), both of which used exactly the same fasces symbols.

Tells a lot about what's going on in the U.S. doesn't it?

But to stay on topic...

Does anyone else find it extremely peculiar that a guy who calls himself SpartanKingLeonidas is actively advocating all the peaceful "solutions" to the victims when force is being exercised against them (kind of reminds me of the beginning of the WW II... just can't put my finger on the reasons why...).

Spartans were not knows for their peacefulness as far as I know, and were prepared to die to the last one in order to protect their own freedom and the freedom of the whole Greece.

So, what's wrong with this picture we are seeing here? Do I smell a rat?

If I were some kind of conspiracy nut theorist, I'd be asking myself right now if Neville Chamberlain was in fact a fascist in disguise, and was intentionally stalling Britain's preparations for the war everyone knew was coming? I mean, the peaceful are usually just puppets in the hands of those others out there, so I'd say that my question has some firm ground beneath its feet.

Are we seeing here the beginning of a psychological operation to smoke out all the true patriots?

The symbolism is quite stunning I must say. Somehow, it reminds me of that persecution of the Christians the Bible speaks about. Somebody's heavy on the symbolism these days it seems.

Anyway, the only thing I can say is - not gonna happen.

And with that, I think I will just leave as unnoticeably as I came back, and never return to ATS again just like I'll never return to that, now Pentagon-infested, GLP forum.

Places like this keep falling into military hands at an increasing (and quite alarming) rate, so I wouldn't like to be caught in it when the military takes over the whole country.

But, maybe SpartanKingLeonidas can reach some kind of agreement with the military dictatorship when that happens?

His life (and some added luxury) in exchange for the "traitors" to the military regime? Yep, I think he'd go for it, and he would definitely show his ability to negotiate with non-violent means.

Good for you Spartan chap, you're the best.

Even Sun Tzu would bow before your sheer brilliance at winning (goods for yourself) without any effort.

posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 01:11 PM

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

I was taught, as I am sure all good little Catholic school children are taught, to respect authority. Even, I would say, to bow to authority, never question, never move against the flow, never disturb those in power.

Those that do in fact reside in powerful positions, love this type of thought, it's essentially complete control handed to them on a silver platter.

Do you think my questioning authority means I do not know when to respect it?

Questioning authority is a part of the learning process and merely a means to learn.

If we do not question authority, Government or otherwise, how can we not learn?

Think of it as a test in order to become the power and authority eventually.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I don't think any rational or sane person automatically reacts with violence. Anyone who contemplates violence must first follow through with contemplation. In the case of the guy threatening Dems I pose to you this scenario: Have you EVER written Congress.. poured your heart and soul into a letter? Have you EVER gotten a response back regarding your concerns? The only time that I have ever gotten a letter back was regarding the bailouts (which I posted the response on ATS) and it essentially told me I was an ignorant child who knew nothing about economics. More so. The letter was not addressed to me, but to "constituents" .. because it was a mass letter sent to everyone who sent a letter be it pro or against the bill.

I wrote to a Governor, once, with an idea and got no reply.

My Contribution To Open Government Directive

And I know a form letter and expect them which is why I post online and meet politician's in person, not write letters, and I use my words effectively, without violence.

I have met many politician's over my lifespan, I believe in not allowing them to belittle me, because most times they understand in person, and in sending a letter an intern reads the letters, and reply appropriately, with a form letter.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
SO .. the guy threatens, uses forceful language in his letter.. it's not that anyone even read his damn letter.. the FBI/Secret Service have computers that highlight key words.. because he lit up the radar, his letter was pulled.

Of course.

I know the process quite well which is why I do not bother, it is nothing more than a barrier.

If you know a way around the barrier use it.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Violence GETS ATTENTION. You can ignore thousands screaming at you on the side of the road, holding signs, chanting, yelling, crying what ever. You can ignore thousands upon thousands of letters, be physical or digital. You can actually go your entire term and never hear about a protest against your way of running things.

Of course which means the politician has their head in the sand too.

Or that they are bought and do not consider each constituent as an individual.

Replying to each person is important and form letters show a lack of respect.

While I do understand that politicians receive thousand and or millions of letters, replying to each is as simple as having a consideration of them as individuals.

Not which form letter to send and how to address it.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
You CANNOT ignore when someone try's to attack you. Suddenly the World comes crashing down around you.. this little cocoon you build around your self means nothing if people are SO mad that they try to harm you and your family.

Of course, but as well, politicians know to use this as a means to take advantage too.

Of the drama and the use it that drama to get more security and or the importance of the what the politician's cause is and use that as a means to get more attention.

Usage of that drama happens more often than not to broadcast more power to the agenda that was a point of discontent, which lead to the threat of attack.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Violence does not "Solve" problems (most of the times anyways) but it DOES thrust into the spotlight areas of concern. No one takes people against healthcare seriously, then someone trys to hurt a Congresscritter. A kid being bullied in school pleads to be left alone, no one gives a damn until he shoots up the school.

That is so right because people get fed up, quite easily, with the needless bureaucracy.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
We are a Reactionary society.. we do not solve problems by thinking, we solve problems by seeing. That is to say, until something drastic and unexpected happens, no one will attempt social reform on that topic.

And that is a large part of the problem as I see it.

I used to be reactionary, but a long time I learned to be proactive.

And it is difficult for reactionary types to think proactive, they do not see a need.

I can see the need when security is lax, or when violence is about to erupt, or even when a pattern is forming, depending upon the variables I see, and as well what exactly is going on, the event, size of event, and or nature of the event.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I would say that to truly deny ignorance, we have to agree that violence in and of it's self is indeed ignorant.. however, the usage of violence can in fact bring recognition to certain points throughout society. Violence can also be used by those using it or receiving .. if we attack a Congresscritter, we are Barbarians. When the Government attacks it's citizens they are Tyrants. If we attack each other.. it's War. And Humans, for all the thought power we poses, are not above the Animal World. We are animals, we will always retain that trait.. we love war, we love violence, and it will never cease. We are a nation born by Wars and insurrection, we shall parish in War and insurrection.

I agree with you on so many levels with you, Rockpuck.

When violence is the first answer, violence becomes the last answer.

Reciprocation of like-kind and the demise of one person or twenty brings up down to animals.

Animals have instincts yet we humans rarely do, unless we learned along the way.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
And don't forget .. in almost every case of mass violence against a government, people always clamor for reform, try elections, plead peacefully in the streets. How many times will a population converge in the streets peacefully with signs, only to be ignored, and the only times recognized beaten into submission by riot police... before they turn to more.. eye catching endeavors...

Yes, and people often forget Law Enforcement has a job to perform, and some get out of hand, while some believe in the peace those who are protesting for are trying to gain, but it is often difficult because citizens and Government are only people, protester's, Government officials, and Law Enforcement.

People are people, and they react according to what their emotions allow, and often make the incorrect move, and when reactionary people react through emotions they allow themselves to be lead through a chemical reaction.

Instead of an intellectual one.

[edit on 29-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 02:08 PM

Originally posted by CaptChaos
These are nice ideas, but, what should one do when confronted with violence? Just die? Or try to defend oneself?

The problem is, the THING that is controlling the world, and causing ALL the turmoil in the world today, is doing it through violence. The few people who are causing the suffering of the many, are doing it through violence or the threat of violence.

I am going to take your post as one to address an incorrect implication to my words.

And this is no personal attack against you, nor anyone else, but I have been reading this thread.

More so than I have replied to it yet, because of the complex nature and diverse answers.

Quite a few have replied like you have, but it is error, because I never addressed it.


Until now.

If any of this sounds like it is personal in nature, please rest assured it is not.

I never said self-defense was not an option, self-defense is the only option.

As I replied to Rockpuck, it is the reactionary nature of mankind which does not understand this because of the nature of a lack of instinct, I am a proactive man.

In the Art of War, a wise strategist knows his or her enemies strengths and weaknesses.

And the wise strategist uses both of them to knock down his or her opponent.

If someone were to threaten me, I would analyze the method, and counter accordingly.

Is it a direct threat or an indirect threat?

A direct threat would be if they physically threatened me.

An indirect threat would be if they threatened my loved ones.

Next, I would analyze their means, motive, and opportunity.

Are they capable of harming me or my family, means, what is their reason, motive, and are they capable of pulling it off, opportunity.

If any of those trigger me to see a direct or indirect threat, I take action.

But only necessary action and these deciding factors I've explained, happen in mere seconds.

I have had both direct and indirect threats to me in my lifetime many times.

And I always have defeated every enemy after the age of fifteen, because that is the age I turned from being the bullied, into a bully-buster, without becoming a bully.

Originally posted by CaptChaos
What happens if you decide you do not want to finance the unjust and illegal wars for resources, the Wall Street crooks' bailouts, mandatory "insurance" and all the rest of it? How can you refuse to support all this? Why, your taxes are paying for it all! So just don't pay. What will happen? Try it and see. You will be thrown in jail. If you resist being thrown in jail, you will be beaten senseless, and then thrown in jail. If you resist even more than that, you will be shot dead. I would call that violence, wouldn't you?

If I want to not fund unjust wars, finance Wall Street, I do it and do it how I see fit.

Whatever my decisions, I know the ramifications, and adjust to them as necessary.

Did not Jesus Christ say to give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's?

Well, pay what he demands, and nothing else, and do which you are able to do.

But I know how to do things more so than others do and I think on a higher plane.

How To Overthrow Your Own Government, Legally and Without Violence, In Order To Survive

Please examine the thread above as it is along the lines of this thread.

Originally posted by CaptChaos
It's sad to say, but the few families that are running the entire show, and causing all the suffering of everyone else to enrich themselves, are doing it through violence, and will not respond to anything else. The truth is, they all must be killed, or they will not stop. And unfortunately, all their children and relatives must be as well. The entire bloodlines must be stamped out.

If we could get everyone in the world to realize what's going on, and see the entire corrupt system clearly, theywould be utterly powerless immediately. Unfortunately, ninety percent of the people have no idea what is going on. A lot of them are too stupid to even understand it if it is taught to them. Even more of them just don't want to believe it could be so bad, and therefore believe so much they will fight to protect their illusions.

But do you not see that these bastards have contingency plans for what you're mentioning?

They plan for it and use Law Enforcement, Governor's, or Military as a barrier measure, to ensure you will not succeed, and needless people die on both sides.

There are far more intelligent means to take them on that they either do not plan for, or cannot stop, and will make them shake in their Penny Loafe rsmore so than violence.

By the age of eighteen I knew how to overthrow any Government with violence.

Now, I know how to do it like purchasing food at the grocery store, I evolved.

Give me 50 men or women, plus myself and I could take the U.S.

No, that is not an offer, no it is not a recruitment, and no it is not a threat, direct or indirect.

But people believe falsely that they have to kill every Police Officer, Military person, or Government official in the way, to force the change they want to see.

This is ignorant.

There is a passive, legal, and right way to do it, and make it stick, permanently.

Originally posted by CaptChaos
It is highly unlikely that a majority of the people will EVER "wake up" and realize the extent of the corruption. If they did, there would be a bloodless revolution. But, not gonna happen. The only way it can end is if the few who understand, and are for freedom, must kill the few who are trying to enslave everyone. If they are not killed, they will not stop trying to rule the world. Ever. They never have stopped, so far. Unless they are completely eradicated, and their entire bloodlines, they will not stop. Without that, they can only be slowed down at best. They will never give up. They have proven it time and time again.

SO, what's it gonna be? Liberty or Death?

People will only wake up if they realize they are asleep, period.

Take care waking those walking as the sleeping because they are like sleepwalkers.

You awake a sleepwalker incorrectly and they are violent, immediately.

Think of them as the perfect "sleeper agent" who is unaware of that fact.

Remember the movie The Matrix and Morpheus's lesson to Neo?

Beware the women in red because she is what you are not supposed to pay attention to.

A distraction and a trap, one in the same, think of her as an Agent Provocateur.

And this is a simplistic explanation I am considering, at a later date, doing a thread on taking down Agent Provocateurs.

It will be a non-violent means too and out-thinking them is the only acceptable tactic.

Matrix Is A System

Depending upon your knowledge of the meaning matrix is could mean many things.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Matrix

A matrix is an array or grid.

An archaic usage is a breeding animal or a womb.

...or it could mean...

Quote from : Wikipedia : Multistate Anti-Terrorism Information Exchange

The Multistate Anti-Terrorism Information Exchange Program, also known by the acronym "MATRIX", was a federally funded data mining system originally developed for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement described as a tool to identify terrorist subjects.

The system was reported to analyze government and commercial databases to find associations between suspects or to discover locations of or completely new "suspects".

The database and technologies used in the system were housed by Seisint, a Florida-based company since acquired by Lexis Nexis.

The Matrix program was shut down in June 2005 after federal funding was cut in the wake of public concerns over privacy and state surveillance.

It all depends on how deep you are willing to research and how far down the rabbit hole you go, and if you follow the White Rabbit, or if you do not.

No Place To Hide : Face Recognition, Information Data-Mining, and Loss of Anonymity

[edit on 29-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 02:42 PM

Originally posted by ALLis0NE

Originally posted by CaptChaos
These are nice ideas, but, what should one do when confronted with violence? Just die? Or try to defend oneself?

I thought it was quite clear that when you are confronted with violence you should use your brain.

If you didn't understand that then I don't think you should reread the first post.

[edit on 27-3-2010 by ALLis0NE]

I have addressed that particular comment now.

Thank you for trying to explain it.

I saw a pattern where many people were mistaking my words and I have corrected that.

Self-defense is completely allowable and is a means of defense through using our brains.

Originally posted by rick1
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Look congressmen and senators get threats all year round. The sergeant of arms at the senate said there has been NO SPIKE in the number of threats they receive. The left said even before this bill passed they would need to get Americas mind on something else if this thing passes so they would forget about healthcare by november. So they dragged these threats out and now they have a boogeyman. But it's all BS. But hey it works.It worked great for 8 years when they made bush the boogeyman. 2006 they got their congress. 2008 they got their pres. And in 2010 they will make America forget about the issue of healthcare by november. How much are of our tax dollars are they paying David Copperfield.
It's not brain surgery it's politics.

Yes, I do realize Senator's and Congress receive threats year round.

Personally, I see this particular politician using it as a means to blacken the eye of the right.


It is all smoke and mirrors with this Healthcare Reform but I used the analogy of the violent threat, as a means to show the reactionary motive of Government.

Think of them playing a "Shell Game" with the reactions.

The Old Shell Game

Are you following the shell's, the pea, or the money and will the con-man get you?

Originally posted by rick1
reply to post by jackflap

My beautiful 18 year old cousin was beaten so badly by her sick boyfriend that she was unrecognizable. My aunt and uncle had to have a closed casket funeral. Tell us what resources he was after.

That is sad that your cousin was beaten like that.

Sounds like her boyfriend was a real loser.

My condolences for your loss.

posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 03:08 PM

Originally posted by unityemissions
While that may be the OP's premise, I thought this was an open discussion forum that is open to opposing views.

It is and all are welcome no matter their beliefs.

Agree, disagree, or agree to disagree, we are merely having an online discussion.

That is all.

Originally posted by unityemissions
The absolutes have no truth in this world. Saying that violence never solves a problem is idiotic. Some people are so ruthless and control so many resources that effect too many peoples lives to just let it be. If they are to take it by deciet and manipulation, we must retake it by force.

There within your first sentence of this second comment is the exact thing I believe.

There are no absolutes, except death and taxes, everyone dies and everyone is supposed to pay taxes, everything else is negotiable, and always will be.

Your second sentence within this comment though while seemingly true, is not the only option, there are many, many other avenues that people miss out on.

Originally posted by unityemissions
I have a brain. I use it quite well. It's kept me out of a multitude of conflicts through my years, but I'm not so naive as some others anymore. Having heart doesn't mean to be non-violent at all times. It means to stick true to what you believe is right, and defend the people at all costs. Sometimes that cost is getting your hands dirty.

But what cost liberty if the blood upon your hands is both of those guilty and innocent?

If someone is doing their job and you do what you see as right how is your action more called for then theirs, and when is it acceptable for violence, when all solutions are not explored, via a means much more effective and meaningful?

An act of violence is an act of someone who has not engaged all means, first.

If self-defense, meaning personal self, is needed, use force, if it is a Government entity, there are many more lawful means and avenues open to us.

I am not speaking of voting someone out, nor of writing letters, but of running in politics itself, or opening a non-profit which has a mission of raising awareness.

The only limitation we have in life is those we allow ourselves to have to begin with.

Originally posted by Isosceles
Actually, there is a far more simpler method that would destroy their system of destruction, misery, corruption and greed.

Just stop participating in it. Refuse to participate in their system of corruption, and the power that they hold over us would be quickly extinguished.

Isolation is only temporary.

As the saying goes No Man Is An Island and by isolation it happens anyway.

By complete isolation it happens to everyone and still affects everyone.

By cutting one's self out you only cut off from reality, not the actions of society.

Originally posted by Isosceles
No bullet would ever need to be fired, and no blood would ever need to be shed.

I think violence is exactly how they want us to respond. As it then gives them the excuse they need to further erode our freedoms under the guise of ensuring our safety.

For those that believe violence is the only answer, I say: Be careful what you wish for. Your actions may create more harm than good.

I agree with what you saying as it is exactly what those in power want us to do.

They want violent action while feigning safety and security through the guise of benevolence.

And the usage of the Hegelian Dialectic is the means to do so.

Hegel, the Media, 'Conspiracy Theories' and You. [pt 1/3]

Hegel, the Media, 'Conspiracy Theories' and You. [pt 2/3]

Hegel, the Media, 'Conspiracy Theories' and You. [pt 3/3]

posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 03:28 PM
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Do you think my questioning authority means I do not know when to respect it?

nonsense.. I was simply saying that we were brought up at polar opposites. You, raised to ask questions, I, raised to keep my mouth shut. How is then that we end up in the same ideology regarding Authority? Yes, Authority should be respected, without it we are orderless and chaos reigns free. To much and we are stripped of our freedoms and turned into subservient surfs. Are some people programmed to change the way they think, to break away from the mold in which they are brought up? Are some people naturally programmed to be .. rebels? Because that's what we are, we go against the grain of society.. while others care only what party Lindsey Lohan attended last weekend, others are zealously following politics, economics, social movements..

But then, you could take the question even further. In many animal species there are different types of the same species, with a naturally programmed role in their society. The largest population of ever categorized animal are the "workers" .. those that trudge along, cause no problems, do the work, have no leadership roles what so ever. They go with the flow, regardless of power changes amongst the population. This is seen in many varieties, from Apes to Ants.

Some however are leaders, but not just leaders, contesters for leadership .. where ever there is a group ruling in power, there is at least one other in contest for that leadership. In Humans, we see the ones we call sheep.. and perhaps they really are. In the Revolutionary War, it's estimated a mere 3% of the population provoked the war.. it takes only a few radicals to spark something. In Humans the power of ideology demands that our beliefs are more pertinent than what ever is "in power".. At this conjunction in history, the power is shifting towards "us vs them" and incidentally perhaps that means the two parties against "the people". The core party supporters, from both parties, are the "sheep" so to speak.

That is so right because people get fed up, quite easily, with the needless bureaucracy.

I view 90% of Government as "needless bureaucracy" .. when it becomes to big, you dismantle and start anew.. yes, all forms of government will grow indefinitely, but hitting the "reset" button can drastically reduce Government.

Yes, and people often forget Law Enforcement has a job to perform

You know.. I agree.. they just do their jobs.. but.. Lets take London's G8 summit for example. Yes, police had to retain the masses and prevent damage. But, I am sure you saw the videos of police bashing against peaceful protesters, the men behind the first line with shields over their heads, bringing them down on the heads and backs of those they were pushing..

Disgusting behavior, worthy of treason. Or when a cop kills a person (which happened *again* this week in my city, the guy had a box cutter *gasp*) and the Police cover up the crime.. "he was just doing his job".

Ya, police (and soldiers) do have a job to do, but when do you draw the line of respecting their position, questioning what they do, and striking back to say "enough is enough"?

posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Kelliott
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Exellent SKL!

Its people who think like you and I that really understand violence IS NEVER the answer. Typical human-actions... The mind is truly FAR MORE POWERFUL then anything. Those who question and disagree, that's bc those people have a weak mind or don't know who to shape their minds and thoughts. That or they just choose to live a Physical 3D life forever .. lame

Well, it is just a matter of thinking, or not thinking, it is as simple as that.

Not everyone is taught to think, only to serve and or react accordingly.

If they do not understand that politician's see the world as a stage and those who do not think, cannot possibly comprehend this in that they are merely seen as a character within a cast of billions, and their role is either that of a prince or a pauper.

It is up to us to either do as we are told or take appropriate action to get a better part.

Originally posted by Kelliott
People need to understand its thoughts and mind that lead to actions. Every single action you do is settled in the mind and thoughts of the thinker. You cant do something without thinking about it
Here is the worst example of this mind thought; the gonvernment will soon reign down on the globe and destroy billions of inoccent people...
This will soon be the biggest heartbreaker the world will EVER know about... we will end up destroying ourselves in offense and defence as civilians..

BUT a conclusion is, everybody stay positive and love eachother for another human being
That way no hate in the heart or mind for anyone and no Negative/Destructive thoughts will ever be generated by a single human mind and EVERYONE will live in peace and harmony...

^ that was a joke, of course that wont happen, people are too occupied trying to get on top and be the best...
When the time comes and the governments of the world go into toatl choas I'm not going have to be the one to say "I Told you so" lol ... you will all realise life is being wasted ina negative ways. Violence isnt the answer for anything in the world !

Every action takes a thought but it is what you do with that thought that is important.

Do not think and think yourself into a corner to be pigeonholed.

That is ignorant like painting yourself into a corner and not knowing how to get out of it.

Creedence Clearwater Revival - Fortunate Son - Music Video

Originally posted by constantwonder
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

All of the above. The left versus the right, religion versus religion, white versus black, us versus them. No one ever stops to think about the other side with any objectivity.

That is correct, they align with the "left-wing" or the "right-wing".

I am a registered Independent, and align with only the country itself, not a party.

To align with either side is foolish, you are instantly divided, and sorted into a box.

Originally posted by constantwonder
No one takes the time to understand anyone else's point of view anymore. With 24 hour submersion in the constant media blitz everyone thinks they've got it all figured out.

As the saying goes :

"Walk A Mile In Another Man's Shoes and You Will Understand Him".

I look to both sides and listen to both and decide right down the middle.

It takes not leaning to either side to do that and a middle approach to succeed.

Originally posted by constantwonder
Research, cross reference, sourcing, all requires effort. It's alot easier to to just listen to the talking heads. With violience streaming 24/7 from the idiot box, politicians waging foriegn wars as well as domestic smear campaigns, everyone thinks the opposing side is "evil" or inept or incapable.

Which is why I never listen to those talking heads, they have a job to do, to convince you to listen to them, and align with them, they have an agenda, do not fall for it.

Often times I see both sides at fault and see society as ultimately stupid to buy the dribble.

Propaganda is used by both sides, in any conflict, against their enemy, and against their own people, to cover the lies, and cover the lies covering the lies.

Originally posted by constantwonder
There is no sunny side, no optimism, people feel cornered by the world itself. It's instinctual to turn to violence. It takes a level of control of cognitive capability to maintain manners and decorum. An ability I'm afraid is not endowed to the "masses", and in many cases the individual.

No, the masses turn easily into mob mentality, unfortunately.

Depending upon our instincts we can overcome the incorrect ones.

and we can teach ourselves to learn to go the high road, not the lower animal route.

Originally posted by constantwonder
Leave the thinking and the stratigizing and manuevering to the people in power. They'll take care of everything. If side x says I need to fight and oppose side y then that's what I'll do.

People in general are just to comfortable with violence being the answer. They think it simpler then trying to think your way through any given situation.

To make people see otherwise requires a lifting of the veil so to speak. A turning off of the idiot box. A trip to the library, research on the net, taking time to get to know the oppostion. This is a very tricky thing to get most people to do.

When someone finds a way to communicate these things in a meaningful way, without seeming condecending or agressive, to the masses, with a sense of credibility lacking in todays pundit driven society, then maybe violence may no longer be the choice a.
[edit on 27-3-2010 by constantwonder]

Yes, you call it an Idiot Box and my stepfather called it the Boob Tube.

The television turns you into a boob, who knows not what to do, and become useless.

I was taught to never follow stupidity, nor ignorance, but to know it is there within the group.

The question with a herd mentality, take your pick of lemmings, cattle, or sheeple, is whether they are being lead or driven and which are they being forced into.

A pen, trap, or even a cliff with no salvation and the assured death at the bottom of a chasm.

Society grows more and more like Wyle E Coyote (Ralph), and Sam the Sheepdog.

Ralph & Sam - Double Or Mutton

The question is whether we are Ralph, Sam, or the sheep caught in the middle?

I'm no coyote, nor am I a sheep, but Sam is blind too, the tuft of hair blinding him.

I prefer to be the shepherd and lead the flock to safety.

posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 04:25 PM

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Fantastic as always SKL.

I too had never thought about it in this way, however your thesis makes much sense.

The world is changing however little it is from day to day, but we will grow as humans and we will come to realize our barbarous ways will eventually destory us.

I fear that our civilization must fall as a prelude to another that will actually remember the lessons of history.


Like the multitude of other civilizations that fell as a prelude to today's civilization?

posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 05:31 PM

Originally posted by Ainu Basque
There is a difference between "violence" and moral force. If you believe "violence" never solves anything, I suggest an observation of the natural order of things. An evening with National Geographic should suffice. Or reading Col. Cooper's Principles of Personal Defense.

Where have I ever said to not use force?

I believe you have made the mistake that I do not see self-defense as necessary.

My comments however were towards the blind ignorance of immediate violence.

An example would be those within this message board who believe to "fix the problem", that politician's should be killed, which is ignorant.

In my opinion, of course, my opinion is mine, not everyone's.

The mindless barbarian is equal to the Neanderthal mentality.

Meaning, instant reaction, without thought.

If your life is in jeopardy, react, but react correctly, and swiftly.

Originally posted by Ainu Basque
The Living Energy of The Universe has given human beings many different forms of weapons to it has to each living creature on this planet and planets throughout the known universe.

Yes, and many avenues in which to use them, as well as how to use them.

Originally posted by Ainu Basque
Yes, the thrust of your statements are correct, using a weapon: the active mind, from safe distances to outmaneuver your enemy would be the the optimal situation. But that's not always the case. Sometimes the fight comes to you, unexpectedly. As it has been said, "fighting is decision-making at high-speeds." Yes, most fights should be anticipated but the fact remains: human beings are imperfect. Even the greatest warriors can make mistakes and have great errors in judgement. History tells us this and if you look inside your self, you will find it to be true.

I know every human makes mistake, especially when it comes to a survival situation.

I never once implied I was perfect, but I know how to react and not react.

And the one and only ultimate mistake is the one which gets you needlessly killed.

Or innocents who were non-combatants.

As to the manner of our own actions we are bound to those which define us.

Originally posted by Ainu Basque
In terms of human affairs, it has been said, "The answer to 1984 is 1776." If there is ever to be a Second American Revolution, it can happen through non-violent means but for all those who care to live in freedom and liberty: "hope for the best but prepare for the worst".

A viewing of the film, Seven Samurai, directed by Akira Kurosawa will also prove my point.

Remember the Ainu, Remember the Basque.

[edit on 27-3-2010 by Ainu Basque]

And if we are to do anything against those we see as oppresors it must be intelligent.

For if we are not intelligent then we waste our lives for the mere act of stupidity.

The question is whether we are a citizen, a soldier, or the authority when it happens.

Whether we are the lowly grunt, the Sergeant ordering men, or the Governor ordering man men and women to commit to action, and what the action may be.

I remember the Ainu, remember the Basque, and I remember many others.

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
Nicely done op. By the way if anyone wants a copy of the art of war you can find it at shambhala pocket classics. I bought mine in 1972, its come in handy for many years.

Thank you for that and there are many versions.

Each time I find a different version I purchase it.

This is because each author has a unique perspective.

And I arm myself accordingly, through mental preparedness, with each new book.

Originally posted by Dock9
Most people, though -- are all talk, no 'do'

They like to sit around swapping theories they've culled from here, there ...

But when it comes time to act, they stand there, flatfooted -- no plan and no action

and they wait for someone else to save them

As someone said higher in the thread, it comes down to knowing when to bite and when to blend into the scenery

And if you're going to bite, you'd better be prepared to finish it or die trying

That's elementary

Yes, many people are, but not all of them are, and discerning the two is easy.

And those who wait for others to save them are fools and they wait for nothing.

The world has enough people who wait and do nothing, they complain, whine, and bitch about what is happening, and believe falsely that voting is their only answer, but they forget voting is not the end of their responsibility, but the very beginning of it, right after making yourself aware of what exactly is going on, on both sides of the issue.

There are many, many more avenues open to people, if only they see them.

Originally posted by Logarock
My meaning was anyone that made up his mind. Interesting that you chose "bully" to fill here. As if a "bully" had never seen a 2x4 and is anyones easy pray. To defeat you I would only have to act the bully or set pen and paper before you.

If you think I am going to show the bully the 2 X 4 you are mistaken.

A bully is someone who thrives on fear and intimidation.

And to defeat a bully, different tactics are necessarry, a 2 X 4 is not a direct weapon.

When taking on a bully with said 2 X 4 you clobber the crap out them when they are not looking, it is as simple as that, and there's more to the metaphor.

A bully is not an honorable opponent so not being stupid necessary.

But, you give him the chance of honor, first, without being stupid.

If he dishonors the offer and decides to be ignorant, educate him.

Originally posted by Logarock
There was a great japanese swordsman that reproved an opponent for tossing away his scabbard. It says so much.

But alas the great Perseus defeated the Kraken with the head of Medusa.

A great greek general won the day by noticing the hidden phalanx moving behind the screen because their spears were lifted to high.

Of course, never throw away the scabbard, or Medusa's head, and always watch for hidden movements, those are the one's which will get you.

[edit on 29-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 05:52 PM
I agree. Intelligence will almost always beat violence. If one looks at the current state of affairs, the US is spending themselves to death in the middle east. The US government has spent so much money that they will probably never be able to fully recover.

All of this is happening while countries like China, India and Russsia hold back, and watch as their economies continue to improve. No shot will ever need to be fired by these nations. Their neutrality will lead to their victory.

America will destroy itself from within. Their own foreign policies will be the catalyst that leads to their eventual demise. And by the looks of things, America's demise isn't that far off.

posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 06:55 PM

Originally posted by LordBucket
Those who advocate yin without yang are no wiser than those who advocate yang without yin.

Of course, Yin and Yang are mandatory, necessary or else you will never win.

But, I believe you may have mistaken my comment as not allowing for self-defense, as many other members have.

Self-defense is fine, but going straight to violence almost never solves anything.

Originally posted by LordBucket
Violence does solve some problems. Perhaps not the problems that you have. But to someone else you may be the problem which violence solves.

And those people who see that they would have to "solve" me via violence would find it difficult.

The reason is I have alwyas seen them coming and the few times I did not I still knew what to do better than they did, and I survived, and I always will, because I constantly educate myself in how to topple kingdoms.

And one man is a kingdom or many men who follow a King are a kingdom.

And through ATS and the terms and conditions I would not advocate violence.

I would advocate non-violence and thinking, first, self-defense if necessary and swiftly.

Originally posted by LordBucket
It is a mistake to assume that because a person resorts to violence that they are mindless. Just as there is mindless violence, so too is there mindful violence.

Who is more dangerous? A thug with a sword, or a geek with an ICBM?

Now...whichever way you answered, who is more dangerous, they...or a thug with an ICBM?

I do believe I said seeking violence, first, is the mindless aspect.

And a man with a sword is as equally dangerous, as the person with the I.C.B.M., because each is deadly to their respective foes, and if you are not prepared to engage, you are not prepared to survive.

You must first be prepared to lose everything, to be prepared to win everything.

And the phrase Mutually Assured Destruction comes to mind about the I.C.B.M.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Mutually Assured Destruction

Mutual assured destruction (MAD) is a doctrine of military strategy and national security policy in which a full-scale use of nuclear weapons by two opposing sides would effectively result in the destruction of both the attacker and the defender.

It is based on the theory of deterrence according to which the deployment of strong weapons is essential to threaten the enemy in order to prevent the use of the very same weapons.

The strategy is effectively a form of Nash equilibrium, in which both sides are attempting to avoid their worst possible outcome — nuclear annihilation.

Originally posted by TheMythLives
Wow, nice thinking my friend
I was about to hint upon this as well. But first, I wanted to say AWESOME thread SKL you know I am a fan. Once again you have compiled good info for a common good. Now lets see what we have to look at. I mostly agree with some things, but we must remember that one cannot survive without the other. The Violent acts in turn must have non violent acts. It is the way the world works. Not to mention that violent acts do not have to be physical violence, but can be also verbal and even on certain levels peaceful violence. Verbal warefare is very strong and can seriously damage a persons psyche, infact many Teens kill themselves because of bullying that is Verbal rather than physical, such as calling a young girl fat and/or ugly and calling a young boy queer and/or ugly. Infact, while violence manifests in many different way, the goal of peace is certainly attainable, but not highly likely at all. For many reasons ranging from blood feuds, to mental diseases, to first come first serve, and finally survival. In many instances, thinking will get a person killed it is with proper reaction and instinct that the hunted must be the hunter.

Yes, TheMythLives, LordBucket is indeed wise.

And words are powerful, but not if you know how to combat them, and negate their meanings.

Remember the phrase from the schoolyard :

Sticks and Stones May Break My Bones, But Words Will Never Harm Me.

The truest meaning of that phrase is that words only hold power over you if you let them.

Originally posted by TheMythLives
As you know SKL, I was raised by parents who taught me how to avoid situations of conflict. By following these rules:

1) Talk your way out of the situation
2) If you cannot talk your way out walk away
3) If they refuse to let you walk away- run
4) if they pursue and catch you and you have exhausted all efforts- fight.

In many years of martial arts ranging from- taekwondo, to hapkido, to akido, to brazilain jujitsu, to weapons training, to personal protection (bodyguard) training and many other martail arts. There will always be a situation of conflict whether it be Physical, Verbal, or even peaceful. These situations will always exist and while these people may seem like barbarians to us, they are indeed heavily and devilshy smart. Bullies always have a point of action- to make the other person feel as bad as possible. Same goes for the violence of men- there is always a goal, even if that goal is not apparent at first. The son of Sam killed for the thrills. Ted Bundy did the same, he loved the rush! While this may not seem like a good excuse to you or I, to them it made perfect sense! That is because for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. For every reasonable person born there is an equal and opposite irratinale person born. Miguel the archangel had as his opposite Lucifer. Jesus has the Anti-Christ. And so on and so forth. If you get rid of physical violence another violence will take its place. The world is built with evil and good. The two CAN CO-EXIST, but wont be able to for a long time and may never be able to...

And your parents taught you well, TheMythLives, you would like my parents.

The reason I kept getting my ass kicked was because I always read books, educating myself, never engaging in the stupid things, like drugs, sex talk, or smoking, these things were in my estimation, ignorant.

This was my view as a child and teenager, those things were either illegal or immoral.

And I would not back down from that view and it got me my ass handed to me, many times, until I learned to not only back up my words with more meaning, but eventually the intelligence to outsmart those who tried to force those illegal or immoral actions upon me.

Martial Arts were taught to me, many different styles, techniques, and kinds.

But to use your mind is the most powerful and dangerous weapon which we can possess.

An implement with the mind is much more powerful but knowing when to use it or not is vitally important.

Originally posted by TheMythLives
People who are in groups often become more brazen, becaus ethey feel that there friends will go along with them. And often so the friends do not do such things, but rather stay out the way and do NOTHING. It is for this reason that thinking rather than reacting is not a good idea. For instance:

Your friend is about to throw a rock through a window. You have 3 second to say something before he throw it. Without thinking your concious takes over and you shout stop with your body launching forward to grab his arm. You stop him, situation diffused, not by thinking, but by instinct.

Threatening people with violence, is just that a threat. Rarely is it acted upon and if it is acted upon it is done so through the use of the attacker acting out on breaking the victims material possessions rather than actually physically harming the person. Much like what we saw after the health care bill passed and the republicans for the health reform had threats and finally had there windows smashed in with rocks.

But is all violence mindless? Absolutely not. While it is not something that I enjoy seeing at all, it is not all mindless. Sometimes it is the only thing that can be done. Is thought necessary? Not all the time, infact it is better to act on instinct in some situations.

Cool thread SKL
And thanks for the material you have provided and thanks for making me use my brain!

Of course, the groupthink mentality is sometimes deep set in.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Groupthink

Groupthink is a type of thought exhibited by group members who try to minimize conflict and reach consensus without critically testing, analyzing, and evaluating ideas.

Individual creativity, uniqueness, and independent thinking are lost in the pursuit of group cohesiveness, as are the advantages of reasonable balance in choice and thought that might normally be obtained by making decisions as a group.

During groupthink, members of the group avoid promoting viewpoints outside the comfort zone of consensus thinking.

A variety of motives for this may exist such as a desire to avoid being seen as foolish, or a desire to avoid embarrassing or angering other members of the group.

Groupthink may cause groups to make hasty, irrational decisions, where individual doubts are set aside, for fear of upsetting the group’s balance.

The term is frequently used pejoratively, with hindsight.

I learned eventually how to think groupthink as an individual and how to dismantle the groupthink mentality as well, because I intentionally never became a part of the group, but set myself apart from it.

Jonestown - When Groupthink becomes a 'Lemmings' Effect

I know how to spot the "Jim Jones" type and how to take them down.

He was a false Messiah, on a false mission, which lead others astray.

And people like him are easily stopped if you can spot them.

posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 07:16 PM

Originally posted by hoghead cheese
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Spot on, spot on. Within minutes these "intelligent" people turned into a mob of barbarians.

Which "intelligent" people are you referring to exactly?

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
Everyone is given a set of weapons they can fight with.

Some are given their physical strength.
Some are given their brains.
Some are given both.

Then comes how effective you are at using your skills.

"Violence is never the answer" is in my opinion a quote formed by INTELLIGENT beings (not the most physical, or they did not choose to be that way).

It is like a nerd facing a hulk...if the nerd sets the rules, he will win. That is what the world is about. Setting the rules. If you can set the rules, you will go far. If you can break the rules and get away with it, you will go far.
If you can do both, you will dominate.

Everyone is definitely given a unique set of skills.

And each of us has to determine which are ours and then hone them.

Anyone can beat anyone, if properly prepared, but to prepare through the mind one becomes stronger, than even the most "hulking" Lou Ferrigno.

Originally posted by My_Reality
You have raised valid points OP. I do not believe that violence will cease. The Art of War gives a very good description of a great leader. A general who can take a city without a siege is an enlightened leader.

A leader and or General who can defeat an army without engaging is far more powerful than that leader and or General who has amassed arms.

Originally posted by My_Reality
What do you do when an opponent absolutely refuses to settle a dispute, such as making peace or resolving outstanding issues? Indeed, we humans use violence to make change when civilized options fail. Violence is the ultimate peace treaty, the absolute victory, when ALL other options have failed.

It always depends upon the battlefield, the opposing views, and if the enemy perceives a treaty, or suspects dishonor, and or a trap and flying a false white flag of truce. If the enemy suspects you of treachery, have you done anything which gives that impression, if so you must make amends.

An absolute victory, through the hands of violence as you say is ultimate, but it may have become a Pyrrhic victory indeed, if you lost an enemy who could have become a better ally.

Come to that enemy with sincere options towards a concesssion.

If he suspects you and you entreat false concession, he will destroy you.

Originally posted by My_Reality
It is also important in what context one regards violence. For example, blockading a city-state, principality or a nation will not produce widespread physical violence. It will produce violence in the context that force is being used to make one faction submit to the others will.

Yes, a siege is effective, but not against someone prepared for a siege, or who knows of siege engines, and how to counter them, via digging a tunnel out and doubling back around the sieging army, and attack and kill the General of the opposing forces, and taking back the city via a means overlooked.

I have read many versions of the Battle of Thermopylae and each one shows one thing above the rest, Leonidas and his 300 men's commitment to state.

Even though the state had abandoned them they still served the interests of state.

Because of the duplicitous nature of politician's, Leonidas chose to sidestep their inherent corruption, and fickle nature of being bought by Persian gold.

Originally posted by My_Reality
I would also like to point out that non violent, thinking people can also hurt people, through manipulation and subterfuge, just to name two possible methods. "Civilized" people are capable of atrocities just as "barbarians" are. Being civilized does not automatically make a person superior in regards to character. At it's essence, a civilized nation is nothing other than a nation that has progressed to the point of building cities. I know you are using the term barbarian in the context of violent people and non-thinkers. I am using civilized in the context of thinking, non physically violent people that continue to commit atrocities. It happens all the time, and they think outside the box to do it.

Of course, civilizes verses barbarian often come down to definition, and commitment.

You are correct a man or woman's character is not defined by "civilized" thinking.

Some commit atrocities in the name of civilization, Hitler comes to mind.

He was no civilized being but a monster hiding his barbarism.

Originally posted by QtheQ
Perhaps we underestimate how many people who are in high places of power within the establishment of government and business are in a like mind with the sorts of freedom loving people who post here on ATS.

The Art Of Fighting Without Fighting

Love the Bruce Lee movie scene.

I do not underestimate anyone nor their capabilities.

I allow them to show them to me and or try them on me, and they usually underestimate me.

Originally posted by QtheQ
Some years ago the late Sherman Skolnick made claims that there was a group of US flag officers who were murdered by means of airplane sabotage before they could carry out their planned coup and arrest of then president Bill Clinton.

Oh I have heard of the many deceased friends of Bill Clinton.

And I have as well heard of his connections to Mena, Arkansas.

And as well his connections to the D.E.A. and the drug smuggling he did.

Just like I heard that the Oklahoma City Bombing was merely a cover to recover documents, and Timothy McVeigh was a patsy, for a cause.

Originally posted by QtheQ
Continuing along the lines of 'thinking outside the box' we shouldn't necessarily limit ourselves to organizing and educating the citizenry outside the realms of power in an effort to wholesale remove all that are currently in power. Maybe we need to look for ways to weave into the established power and connect, link, and leverage with those in power that share our same principles and values. After all, unless you believe our government is entirely run by reptilians, they are all still humans with minds that operate on basically the same principles of operation as our own.

No, I do not believe in "reptilians" but in the greed of mankind and the "reptilian" mentality of being lead astray via greed, power, and sex.

As well being controlled via this method is something I will never allow.

For myself at least, because this is only a hook, and an eventual downfall is emminent.

Blackmail : Keep Your Friends Close, Keep Your Enemies Closer, The Threat of Subversion Through Fear

I would no sooner rub shoulders with Bill Clinton than shove a rattlesnake up my ass, the rattlesnake would definitely feel better, and less corrupt.

And take care less those principles, morals, and ethics become corrupted.

Merely by being aligned with those who have non whatsoever to begin with.

Originally posted by QtheQ
Of course there are some obvious challenges to such an approach, not the least of which is that inevitably we would be running into many individuals that never will be of a like mind and some that may pretend to be sympathetic just to gain trust and become a mole. Still I'm not convinced that all those challenges couldn't be either overcome or successfully endured. Yes, using one's mind to it's optimum resourcefulness could indeed be the key for a march to utopia.
[edit on 28-3-2010 by QtheQ]

There is no such thing as Utopia, unfortunately, and those who march towards it are marching towards a false image and a mirage, and are easily lead to their doom.

The world is an imperfect place with imperfect people but the system with which we are ruled, is both a false paradigm, and a sold lie sold as the truth.

That each of us has a shot at the White House is a mere myth and sold effectively.

But as well the man who resides in the White House represents us is also myth.

[edit on 29-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

new topics

top topics

<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in