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HCB Myths

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posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 07:14 PM
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Let me start by saying this is NOT another thread to discuss whether or not the HCB is good or bad.

Lately, it seems as if every third thread is about the HCB, and most have paranoid titles such as "HCB forces you to get chip implants", "OMG, illegal aliens will get free healthcare", "Communism, ahhhhhhhh...constitution!!". Quite frankly it's starting to piss me off because I like this forum, and it's a pain to wade through dozens of threads that all seem to use the same talking points circulating in the MSM.

The goal of this thread is to debunk some of those talking points. I'd like to think that people come to ATS to discuss things rationally, do their homework before posting, and not just parrotting whatever Beck, Olbermann, etc shove down your throat. Hopefully that'll make future discussions more productive and cut down on the level of flat out lies.

So let's start off


1. DEATH PANELS

Oldy but goldy. It's been debunked a few times by now, but it always seems to come back to haunt us. Palin used the word "death panel" quite a bit.

Basically, it's based on the section of the bill that talks about “advance care planning consultations”. Opponents of the bill used this wording to state it talks about old people having to show up infront of a panel to sign some sort of "early death pact".

Fact: In reality, the bill language seeks to require Medicare to cover the cost of counseling sessions with doctors on end-of-life issues if a person chooses to have one. Currently, these kinds of sessions aren’t covered by Medicare, and people without extra money often can’t afford to have them. I don't know about you, but a lot of people will appreciate those meetings, especially if it's not a meeting with the government (lol) as some people stated. So no death panels, sorry to burst your bubble.

2. It ends private insurance and reduces employer sponsored programs

Fact (Sec 102 incl. subsection C): Most of the uninsured will be pushed into private insurance. After the bill becomes law, all new health insurance plans will have to be purchased through the Health Insurance Exchange, which, according to a House committee summary, is a “marketplace for individuals and small employers to comparison shop among private and public insurers.” It's all about increasing choice and competition in the marketplace between both public and private health insurance options, not limiting choice. Every economist knows that if competition increases, prices generally come down, and/or the product quality improves. More choice is a good thing!! In addition the House bill is expected to increase the number of employer insurance packages by 2mil until 2019.

3. The bill will give free health care to illegal immigrants

This one's often fueled by racism, but either way, it's completely wrong and nonsense.



“Except as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.”


Fact (Sec 152): The above text is one of the examples that partisan hacks used to mislead the public. If you read subsection C however, you get the following.



“Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”


The "individual affordability credits" mentioned is the only possible thing that could be interpreted as FREE HEALTHCARE. However, since illegal aliens aren't lawfully present in the US, there's no way in hell they'll get anything according to the bill.

Again, the statement of free healthcare for illegal aliens is total bull****.

4. The government will have real-time access to your bank accounts

This myth was started by good old Rush Limbaugh...and then parrotted by a ton of right-wing media TV reporters...and even the leftwing media for a while. It states that in section 163, the bill grants the government access to your bank accounts.

Fact (Section 163 & 1173): It is not real-time access to a person’s bank records, but rather, real-time access for health care providers to information relating to a person’s insurance coverage. And guess what, you already provide access even without the healthcare bill whenever you make a claim...to your insurance information, NOT your bank account!

In section 1173, they talk about private financial records...and Limbaugh promptly used that as well to state the government will access your bank accounts. One line of the section attempts to standardize electronic administrative transactions, such as electronic fund transfers that occur between insurance companies and health care providers for the purpose of administrative simplification. Another line enables electronics funds transactions to allow “automated reconciliation” of health care costs. This would basically amount to nothing more than an automatic online bill-pay system for people to pay their premiums every month.

There is no language in HCB that would make it legal for the government to have direct, real-time access to individual bank accounts. The bill even includes basic requirements that all personal data that is collected under the provisions is used in a matter that meets privacy and security laws, and it restricts “inappropriate” uses, including use of such data in determinations of eligibility (or continued eligibility) in health plans.

5. Public money will fund abortions

Yes, and Obama will personally rip one fetus after the other out of mothers who want get rid of their 2 week old baby. He will also claim the rights for the placenta of their next kid should they ever decide to have one. This is about as true as the claim that public money will fund abortions!!

Fact: NOTHING in the bill overrides the Hyde Amendment which states that no federal funds may be used for abortions. Don't believe me? Read for yourself!


[edit on 26-3-2010 by MrXYZ]




posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 07:17 PM
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6. Implanted chips

This is what you get when people who are not used to decipher such legal text are trying to do anyway.

Fact: What this section of the bill actually does is call on the Secretary of Health and Human Services to “establish a national medical device registry to facilitate analysis of post-market safety and outcomes data” on all Class III medical devices and all “implantable, life-supporting, or life-sustaining” Class II medical devices that have been used on a patient. In other words, it establishes a registry designed to gather data on the effectiveness and safety of the most highly-regulated medical devices.

The key to understanding this section is knowing what these different classes of medical devices are. The Food and Drug Administration has divided up all medical devices that are used on patients into three classes according to their potential to cause harm. Class I devices include things like tongue depressors, latex gloves and handheld surgical instruments. They are subject to very little control from the FDA. Class II devices are a little more sophisticated, but still not subject to a great amount of FDA oversight. They include things like wheelchairs, surgical needles and x-ray machines. Class III devices require the most FDA oversight, including pre-market testing and approval. They include things like implantable pacemakers, silicone breast implants, and replacement heart valves.

It doesn't state you will be forced to get an implant!!

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I'll probably add more as I read the bill in more detail. But please, stop making paranoid posts to scare people without doing proper research!!!

The problem is that legal expressions are very very dry, boring, and often unnecessarily boring. So a lot of people are bound to misinterpret stuff. Sadly, I don't expect politicians and popular talkshow hosts such as Beck/Limbaugh to fail at understanding legal texts...and even if they weren't able to understand, they should hire someone to help them understand. Instead they chose to continue to misinform the people just to push their own agenda. Our media is corrupt, so I'm afraid if you want proper information, you have to do the research yourself, or steer clear of opinion blogs and the MSM.

[edit on 26-3-2010 by MrXYZ]



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 07:35 PM
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I'm glad some of this is being cleared up. Star and flag for you.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 07:55 PM
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(GASP) Reality on ATS! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Back VILE FIEND! Back to the depths of hell with your reason, logic, reality, and truth!

Good job! Keep it up!

I wan't to also address #5 for a moment...

Executive Order -- Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act's Consistency with Longstanding Restrictions on the Use of Federal Funds for Abortion

Just in case anyone still thinks there someway some how is money for Abortions in this bill, Obama signed an executive order making sure there would be no confusion.

Keep up the good work, but just to let you know, Reality and truth has no place in ATS politics.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 08:00 PM
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I would disagree on some issues that you are stating there:
1) Illegale Aliens will be getting free health care. During the first suggestion in front of a joint session of congress, you remember when Rep. Wilson shouted out that the president was lieing about free health care for Illegale Aliens? His reasoning is that in a decision by the Supreme Court of the United States of America, illegale aliens could not be denied health care, so in effect they are going to get free health care.
And when you combine it with the next big agenda, the amensty for all of the illegale immigrants in the country right now, well you can see that both sides are right, yes illegale immigrants are getting free health care, but as they will have amensty, there won't be any illegale aliens in the country at all.
2) Well the news is any indication, I guess the top 10 largest companies, like AT&T having a 1 BILLION DOLLAR deficit and needing to lay off people to cover what all is in the healthcare bill is just not really something to worry about.
3) The way the bill is written, abortion is still up to the individual states and states that allow for such, well that means Federal funding will go to such.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 08:01 PM
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Great thread, probably won't make it far though...not even spooky NWO filled thoughts in it.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by Whyhi
Great thread, probably won't make it far though...not even spooky NWO filled thoughts in it.


Guess I should have changed the thread title to "Obama from Mars, confirmed!" to attract a larger crowd



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 08:08 PM
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Copied and pasted from...

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Posting work written by others. **ALL MEMBERS READ**

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