The Next Great Debate- Stock Market Reform

The next major piece of legislation the Democrats are going to try and push are stock market reforms. The Democrats want to put regulations on the stock market so as to prevent another collapse. This thread is not about the substance of the proposed legislation because no legislation exists for us to comment on. This thread is about the tactics the Democrats are planning to employ.

Apparently, the Democrats want to do get back at the Republicans this summer by doing what the Republicans did last summer. The Democrats want a long protracted debate on stock market reform. They want to portray any Republican that opposes it as a corporate crook that wants to rape the American working and middle class.

Does this bother you? Or do you see this as Karma?

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
The next major piece of legislation the Democrats are going to try and push are stock market reforms. The Democrats want to put regulations on the stock market so as to prevent another collapse. This thread is not about the substance of the proposed legislation because no legislation exists for us to comment on. This thread is about the tactics the Democrats are planning to employ.

Apparently, the Democrats want to do get back at the Republicans this summer by doing what the Republicans did last summer. The Democrats want a long protracted debate on stock market reform. They want to portray any Republican that opposes it as a corporate crook that wants to rape the American working and middle class.

Does this bother you? Or do you see this as Karma?

You beat me to it dang it...

I was thinking about this last night

you do say " Apparently, the Democrats..."

is this your opinion or a translation from a "news" source?

I wonder what BOTH sides are going to do

"Your punishing hard working people"

It will be very hard for the Republicans, that line won't work so well

but these things go crazy -

I will try to think like a republican, Democrats; the mission will be pretty straight forward.



[edit on 26-3-2010 by Janky Red]

reply to post by Janky Red


Sorry I don't have a link. I was watching CNN the other night and one of the commentators said that the Democrats hope Stock Market reform, and not Health Care reform, will be the big issue this November. The Democrats are also lagging in the poles and need to do something if they are going to maintain power. If you fill in the blanks, it seems obvious the Democrats are going to attempt to make a huge deal out of Stock Market reform.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Sorry I don't have a link. I was watching CNN the other night and one of the commentators said that the Democrats hope Stock Market reform, and not Health Care reform, will be the big issue this November. The Democrats are also lagging in the poles and need to do something if they are going to maintain power. If you fill in the blanks, it seems obvious the Democrats are going to attempt to make a huge deal out of Stock Market reform.

Well wait a minute...

I agree the Dems need a bump, but I think the strategy (thats what we are discussing?)
might be to let the GOP do the work for them... I would take such an approach, sit back and let the GOP define/frame this one, which is their tendency as of recent, then egg them on, GOP does the work for the Dems...

Economical and give the GOP plenty of space

That would be my plan

All it is, is putting legislation back that should of never been taken off in the first place.

reply to post by Janky Red


The GOP is polling well right now. If they let the GOP take the lead, the GOP will portray the bill as bad for business and a continuation of Obama's "socialist" agenda. The bill will be dead if the Democrats do not do anything.

The Democrats are going to have to fight back. They are going to have to launch rhetoric about how the GOP is a little to cozy with Wall Street Crooks. They are going to have to create the popular idea (whether or not its true) that the GOP is the reason why Americans lost their jobs and equity in their homes.

I see it as Political Theater. Both sides equal into achieving a unified goal. They aren't going to do anything with the stock market, if they do it will just to make it look like the stocks won't ever crash again.

The government is not above the laws of economics.

The only way to reform the stock market is to eliminate the federal reserve.

There are no amount of laws, no amount of regulators, no amount of anything that will prevent the rampant fraud and manipulation without removing the moral hazard that causes it all.

The FDIC also needs to be eliminated.

My prediction: There will be all sorts of arguing and bickering eventually leading to completely draconian regulations rammed through by the Dems making it impossible for any legitimate traders to do business, while at the same time enabling the rampant fraud committed by the mega-banks to continue unabated.

Personally, I don't think the US dollar and markets are going to survive much longer anyways. So all this talk about regulation is fairly moot.

The country is already finished, its only a matter of time until the blowout occurs.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
The only way to reform the stock market is to eliminate the federal reserve.

There are no amount of laws, no amount of regulators, no amount of anything that will prevent the rampant fraud and manipulation without removing the moral hazard that causes it all.

The FDIC also needs to be eliminated.

My prediction: There will be all sorts of arguing and bickering eventually leading to completely draconian regulations rammed through by the Dems making it impossible for any legitimate traders to do business, while at the same time enabling the rampant fraud committed by the mega-banks to continue unabated.

Personally, I don't think the US dollar and markets are going to survive much longer anyways. So all this talk about regulation is fairly moot.

The country is already finished, its only a matter of time until the blowout occurs.

Agree on the FED not on FDIC-

What would prevent runs, manipulation, elitist theft and wild fluctuations?

Moral Hazard?

BTW "Making it impossible for legitimate traders to... "

Come on, exaggerate much???





[edit on 26-3-2010 by Janky Red]

reply to post by Light of Night


That pretty much sums up what Sarbannes-Oaxley is. It does nothing to protect investors, but it did create work for CPA's and made it more costly to run a publicly traded company in the US.

[edit on 26-3-2010 by hotpinkurinalmint]

reply to post by mnemeth1


Say what you want about the Federal Reserve, it has little or nothing to do with many of the problems that exist out on the market. A huge part of the problem is people on Wall Street were inventing and trading all sorts of junk securities. The Fed had nothing to do with this. Another problem is that bond rating services like Moody's are also owned and affiliated with the companies whose credit they are rating.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


The Fed is what causes all of this.

The big banks would never have:

1. created ARM and sub-prime loans
2. bought the junk mortgage packages
3. leveraged their holdings to the moon
4. the liquidity necessary to manipulate the markets

without the Fed:

1. Acting as a bailout lender of last resort
2. Suppressing interest rates to near zero
3. Growing the private banks reserves into the stratosphere by paying interest on them.

The public never would have:

1. Gotten sub-prime loans from the banks because the banks never would have been insane enough to lend to them in the first place
2. Allowed the banks to get away with this without pulling out their cash
3. Taken out loans in the first place because the interest rates would have been too high.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
reply to post by Janky Red

 

The GOP is polling well right now. If they let the GOP take the lead, the GOP will portray the bill as bad for business and a continuation of Obama's "socialist" agenda. The bill will be dead if the Democrats do not do anything.

The Democrats are going to have to fight back. They are going to have to launch rhetoric about how the GOP is a little to cozy with Wall Street Crooks. They are going to have to create the popular idea (whether or not its true) that the GOP is the reason why Americans lost their jobs and equity in their homes.

Hey I just call em like I see em, so far the GOP - Obama Dance works the same way with each tune... The elections almost mirrored the Healthcare debacle, GOP goes way
to far with the rhetoric and has the timing off everytime. They start their attacks too soon, let up and then have nothing that is stronger than their initial rhetoric to finish the job.

Everyday people are getting really confused with the socialist - fascist conundrum -
That is my point, not everyone is a neocon or real "American Patriot".

The simple fact is Big Business got off the leash, got extremely greedy, over leveraged
and helped tank the economy with brazen greed. ( Watch pink, someone will "correct" me and it will serve as an example of the strategy Dems will use, well maybe not now )

The Dems can almost ignore the GOP and focus in on BIG BUSINESS and the things that transpired. The GOP will wiggle and wiggle and appear to be for big business on their own. Act as if Big Business WAS THE POOR VICTUM, forced to be crocked and greedy.

Will GOP say - "Less Government restriction created this mess so we have to give big business more control" - kind of an oxymoron

I am telling you, GOP will do the lifting, Dems will chill, tables flipped

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint

 

The Fed is what causes all of this.

The big banks would never have:

1. created ARM and sub-prime loans
2. bought the junk mortgage packages
3. leveraged their holdings to the moon
4. the liquidity necessary to manipulate the markets

without the Fed:

1. Acting as a bailout lender of last resort
2. Suppressing interest rates to near zero
3. Growing the private banks reserves into the stratosphere by paying interest on them.

The public never would have:

1. Gotten sub-prime loans from the banks because the banks never would have been insane enough to lend to them in the first place
2. Allowed the banks to get away with this without pulling out their cash
3. Taken out loans in the first place because the interest rates would have been too high.

SO OP - GOP's strategy above

Dems WINNING STRATEGY ABOVE



HE fails to mention

banking.senate.gov...

Which allowed for the ELITES (I'm not defending them)

to insure their own ASSETS

Which means loan and then insure those loans from the same revenue pool or FRAUD

Then sell the risk off and disperse it EVERYWHERE so that it is such a bog fricking mess
nobody can figure out what is paper and what is Binary code.

But I digress, MNEMETH cannot but help DEFEND THE engines of capitalism, the elites,

As you see they were victims -

He cannot bare to attack the group that is the shinny success of his political outlook, so
he just nicks the surface and ignores the real causative effect, which was the speculative marketplace due to NO oversight.

He is the DEMS strategy embodied

Originally posted by Janky Red

SO OP - GOP's strategy above

Dems WINNING STRATEGY ABOVE

HE fails to mention

banking.senate.gov...

Which allowed for the ELITES (I'm not defending them)

to insure their own ASSETS

Which means loan and then insure those loans from the same revenue pool or FRAUD

Then sell the risk off and disperse it EVERYWHERE so that it is such a bog fricking mess
nobody can figure out what is paper and what is Binary code.

But I digress, MNEMETH cannot but help DEFEND THE engines of capitalism, the elites,

As you see they were victims -

He cannot bare to attack the group that is the shinny success of his political outlook, so
he just nicks the surface and ignores the real causative effect, which was the speculative marketplace due to NO oversight.

He is the DEMS strategy embodied

WTF are you talking about.

Did I not just say I wanted to abolish the Federal Reserve bank?

Who do you think is propping up the "elites" with our tax dollars right now?

Santa Claus?

Originally posted by mnemeth1

Originally posted by Janky Red

SO OP - GOP's strategy above

Dems WINNING STRATEGY ABOVE

HE fails to mention

banking.senate.gov...

Which allowed for the ELITES (I'm not defending them)

to insure their own ASSETS

Which means loan and then insure those loans from the same revenue pool or FRAUD

Then sell the risk off and disperse it EVERYWHERE so that it is such a bog fricking mess
nobody can figure out what is paper and what is Binary code.

But I digress, MNEMETH cannot but help DEFEND THE engines of capitalism, the elites,

As you see they were victims -

He cannot bare to attack the group that is the shinny success of his political outlook, so
he just nicks the surface and ignores the real causative effect, which was the speculative marketplace due to NO oversight.

He is the DEMS strategy embodied

WTF are you talking about.

Did I not just say I wanted to abolish the Federal Reserve bank?

Who do you think is propping up the "elites" with our tax dollars right now?

Santa Claus?

Lets be honest for a minute

Nobody is going to go after the FED as of yet

so

Lets keep this in the realm of what is and has been

after this merger -

www.nytimes.com...

and this deregulation

banking.senate.gov...

We got the modern seeds of this latest debacle

Such constructs were strictly barred prior

I would love the end of the FED, but I would also like STRONG rules and oversight

Originally posted by Janky Red


Lets be honest for a minute

Nobody is going to go after the FED as of yet

so

Lets keep this in the realm of what is and has been

after this merger -

www.nytimes.com...

and this deregulation

banking.senate.gov...

We got the modern seeds of this latest debacle

Such constructs were strictly barred prior

I would love the end of the FED, but I would also like STRONG rules and oversight

If we got rid of the Fed, we wouldn't need strong rules and oversight.

In case you haven't learned yet, regulations don't work.

Nothing works.

Its so frustrating talking to you because you don't see whats right in front of your face.

Who makes the laws governing banking oversight?

Politicians.

Who runs the politicians?

Banks.

Who enforces the laws created by the banks?

A bunch of retarded incompetent boobs.

You can't solve this with regulation - you can't solve this with laws - you can't solve this with regulators - you can't solve this PERIOD without removing the Fed from the equation.




[edit on 26-3-2010 by mnemeth1]

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
The next major piece of legislation the Democrats are going to try and push are stock market reforms. The Democrats want to put regulations on the stock market so as to prevent another collapse. This thread is not about the substance of the proposed legislation because no legislation exists for us to comment on. This thread is about the tactics the Democrats are planning to employ.

Apparently, the Democrats want to do get back at the Republicans this summer by doing what the Republicans did last summer. The Democrats want a long protracted debate on stock market reform. They want to portray any Republican that opposes it as a corporate crook that wants to rape the American working and middle class.

Does this bother you? Or do you see this as Karma?

Stock market reform could only be a good thing for the middle income people.

This is not a Democrat/Republican thing.

If your poor the market is at best protecting your 401k. Middle America has a small school and retirement portfolio. Those are both protected by a reduction in manipulation and electronic short selling and front running that is the norm today.

When the market crashed look at who lost, everday workers close to retirement. The billionares got bailouts.

If your convinced the market can regulate itself I say look at the criminals who run the markets. Heads of banks, NYSE, Timmy Geitner,the FED..I rest my case.

[edit on 26-3-2010 by Janky Red]

reply to post by mnemeth1


And what "brought" about the FED?

What is to prevent a certain event that happened last century from happening again
without regulation???

You seem to think manipulation will disappear if there are no standards or practices
am I wrong?

It seems to me you might have Moral Hazard be the lynch pin between the Global
marketplace and SUPER DUPPER ARMAGEDDON

I assume you want no rules, no frame work, NOTHING...

I agree it is screwed, but giving more control to people with hundreds of billions?