ATS Members : Do You Honestly Find the Terms and Conditions That Difficult?

I learned the T&C from my grandmother long before the www. even existed.
And if I deviated from the established protocol; I got my butt spanked. Here the equivalent is a point deduction and a small red flag. I actually prefer getting my butt spanked. That's just the way I roll!




[edit on 26-3-2010 by whaaa]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

To those members, both new and old, I have to honestly ask, do you find these that difficult?

Nope - I obviously don't, considering I've never actually read them and somehow still haven't violated them, which must mean that following general ideas of civility and respect should be enough for most posts/ers... Basic courtesy - it's not too much to ask.

_____________________________
ETA:
errrm.... except that one time.... my bad....


[edit on 25-3-2010 by LadySkadi]

Let me explain what ATS does for me.

I live in a small West Texas town, where we have 30k people, and 150 churches. About 2 hours away is Abilene (AKA: The Buckle Of The Bible Belt). They have three Christian universities (McMurray/Methodist, Hardin-Simmons/Southern Baptist and my alma mater, and Abilene Christian/Church of Christ).

In my town, if you stand out you are locked out of anything other than maybe getting to coach as an assistant in little league. No positions of influence for anyone who doesn't have the pedigree (money, church status, business ownership, that kind of stuff).

Most people are hard working, blue collar, making money building windmills or drilling oil.

There is no one in this town for me to communicate with. And if there were, it is likely i would not want to visit with them outside the internet (where i can keep them from robbing me blind, as we are a major drug crossroads from Mexico into the Midwest).

Without ATS, i would be left stabbing in the dark, trying to find new leads through luck and a slowly learned skill. This site boosted my skill in that regard drastically almost overnight.

I use ATS as an example at other sites. This is the only forum i have found that demands civility. Sure, people get cheeky, but for the most part a modicum of civility is usually seen, and is considered the "norm" (outside of the 911 forum, that is).

I have a few thousand posts over several years. I have never recieved a warning or any kind of reprimand for my behavior. This is because i respect and value the forum that the site provides to me free of charge. If they appreciate me, all the better. But it isn't about that. I get my reward just by having the opportunity to interact with some of the people here.

This site is a lifeline of sanity for some people who are stranded among the illusioned masses. I am very thankful for the Amigo's for providing it for us.

My pet peeves are plagiarism and thinly veiled 'stealth advertising'.

If you cut and paste something from another website or type it in from another source, and don't quote the source so your reading audience can check it out for themselves, it is plagiarism. Plagiarism is theft of intellectual property and deception. And is banned by section 1c of the T&C and has been the subject of a targeted "we ain't gonna put up with this crap anymore" thread from the Mgt. Posting work written by others. **ALL MEMBERS READ**

Everybody makes mistakes and misses once in a while. But if you are called out on it, fix it and don't repeat it. And just because the Mods don't pick it up doesn't mean it isn't against the T&C. It isn't that tough.

Stealth advertising is forbidden by section 4a of the T&C. Spamming is forbidden by section 1h.

On several occasions I have seen posters either start or spam several semi-related threads with exactly the same material including links that lead directly to a retail sites selling books or other products. At least one case was on the "Science and Technology" forum and was spruiking magnetic motors, and other cases were on the "Origin and Creationism" trying to sell some book or other.

In both cases they had cut and pasted a paragraph or two that was the entire post, then pointed back to the retail site as the 'source' of their quote.

Both cases are stealth marketing which is banned by the T&C.

I have generally avoided reporting these folks to the mods, after all even I make mistakes and get warned for too colorful language or personal criticism so "people who live in glass houses" and all that.

But not anymore. Plagiarists and Stealth Marketers can expect to be reported by me immediately upon detection. OK, I may give Plagiarists a chance to come clean first. But just once.

The T&C's are very simple to understand and pretty easy to follow. Avoiding one liners, providing proper sourcing, no profanity/vulgarity/drug talk, etc.

Although I do follow them, I will admit it's sometimes hard to avoid personal posts and mind my manners. Come on, admit it. Every now and then we all run across a post where you want so badly to blurt out, 'ARE YOU A MORON!?!'

O:-)

So sometimes it's hard to keep that halo on, civility-wise. In the end, though, I'd much prefer to have to hold my tongue on occasion instead of having good manners not be a rule here.

The heated debates/discussions are some of the best to absorb and partake in. Opposing points of view are heavily invested in their research or the lack there of and try to win one another over. Much is to be learned in such spirited exchanges... but unfortunately some mods are trigger/power happy and prematurely kill the spirit of a thread, out of a premature fear that a debate will spin out of control. Be mindful that sometimes the awful truth just sounds awful, and that being boldly honest should be no crime... some of you need to lighten up on your controls... and give the hyper-sensitives an opportunity to evolve a backbone. For those mods who know how to steer a thread back on topic, without censoring and/or slapping anyone around in the process, I salute you... your delicate yet firm craft is much appreciated and a huge contribution to the health of any debate/discussion/topic.

I find the rules to be just fine. I dont know why people cant follow them, they are quite simple. Some people are lazy and dont want to read.

My problem is members who know better that violate these rules and get away with it (not always) but yet they are the first to point out a newer member for doing what they do themselves. That drives me nuts!

Flag for you! Good thread.

I would like to thank everyone for their comments, thoughts, and considerations.

I thought it was an important topic to begin in an area where all members are welcome, and it is in regards to the entire website, and how people treat each other.

As well it sure seems as if people and their divisions among ethnicity, religion, cultural backgrounds, and life experiences should be something that brings about a diverse multitude of people, when it comes to ATS, and I believe ATS tries to cover all of that with regards to making the website comfortable for the greater good.

Meaning of course that they cannot do anything towards showing favoritism to anyone.

Everyone is lumped under the same terms and conditions, or code of conduct, if that works better for some people, because it is like a group gathering.

If it is not under some semblance of order it is under complete chaos.

Knowing that conspiracy theories are something shunned by the mainstream, this site is one of those which accepts those people who are often shunned, taunted, teased, and or ridiculed, for no other reason than arrogance, ignorance, and impudence of those who willingly accept life as they see it.

And as far as I see it, ATS is a place who accepts you, no matter your thoughts.

For those who have been shunned, taunted, teased, ridiculed, or what have you, ATS is a place where they can voice their opinion, and share ideas, as well as find out how to come together in a community where they can find out just what is not accepted, either because of a lack of understanding, a lack of knowledge, or those who forget that history repeats itself, always and forever.

ATS is to me a standard in the air above all other conspiracy theory websites.

The site Administration, Super-Moderators, Moderators, F.S.M.E., and all other staff come together, share their ideas, carry on with the ideas of the website, as well as share their thoughts into the deep and dark world of conspiracy theories.

To me, that shows they are willing to contribute, as well as work at uncovering information.

And to do so, without asking you to follow them, allowing us to lead ourselves.

That is something which is unique to those who know how to lead themselves.

It is a sense of self-empowerment, a sense of self-identity, a sense of self-esteem.

And it is a grand way in which to not only make an impact but to do what we need to do.

Deny Ignorance.

Where else can we get people like author Jim Marrs or singer Dave Grohl?

Dave Grohl on ABOVE TOP SECRET & Foo Fighters


If we as members of ATS resort to name-calling, derogatory character assassination, or partisan bickering, we becomes about as silly as this commercial.

Funny Orbit Gum Commercial


[edit on 26-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

I think this has less to do with following rules and more to do with common sense.

The ATS T&C could be thought of as a reminder of how this place should be when at it's best and most neutral.

Unfortunately, not everyone is endowed with common sense, and that is when rules get broken.

"Stupid does, stupid is."

Originally posted by whaaa
I learned the T&C from my grandmother long before the www. even existed.
And if I deviated from the established protocol; I got my butt spanked. Here the equivalent is a point deduction and a small red flag. I actually prefer getting my butt spanked. That's just the way I roll!

[edit on 26-3-2010 by whaaa]

LMAO... whaaa you are truly one of a kind

Just think of how much more 'wonderful' ATS would be if we all had grandmothers like whaaa's ...no TC or moderators would be needed

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

Dave Grohl on ABOVE TOP SECRET & Foo Fighters

I watched that video I have to ask
I'm confused

Jim Marrs Above Top Secret was published June of 2008
I remember We were all happy and stuff about it
heres a B&N link barnes and noble

My question would be if Dave got the idea for the cover name from the book how did he do that back in July 95 when the album was released? Foo Fighters alblum


Either that or I didn't get the joke.


on topic--
I try to follow the T&C and agree it is not hard to follow
I also think that if people admit they didn't read it when becoming a member
flat out told a lie to become one and should be banned for it.

Yes I do read all software " contracts ", that's how I know if it's legal to back them up and or make mods for games and such with out breaching an agreement.

Good example of why you should read them taken from FFXI agreement-
not worded like below but---
That is why this sony / squaresoft software it basicaly states that you are "renting" the software that's why you can not modify it and if and when they want they can have you erase the software from your drive even though you had " purchased it"

Micro$oft used to have it that way also but the " contract " changed a bit.
to where yes you can use it, yes with "approved" software you can modify it
no you can not back it up, yes you can keep it on your drive if they stop working with it.

reply to post by EvilBat


I do believe Dave Grohl is misremebering because the term Foo Fighter has been around since WWII, and perhaps because this interview was new, he mentioned it erronesously in it, because of his love for the book.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Foo Fighter

The term foo fighter was used by Allied aircraft pilots in World War II to describe various UFOs or mysterious aerial phenomena seen in the skies over both the European and Pacific Theater of Operations.

Though "foo fighter" initially described a type of UFO reported and named by the U.S. 415th Night Fighter Squadron, the term was also commonly used to mean any UFO sighting from that period.

Formally reported from November 1944 onwards, witnesses often assumed that the foo fighters were secret weapons employed by the enemy, but they remained unidentified post-war and were reported by both Allied and Axis forces. Michael D. Swords writes,

During WWII, the foo fighter experiences of [Allied] pilots were taken very seriously.

Accounts of these cases were presented to heavyweight scientists, such as David Griggs, Luis Alvarez and H.P. Robertson.

The phenomenon was never explained. Most of the information about the issue has never been released by military intelligence.

Personally, I believe the Nazi's were experimenting with "aliens" as a scare tactic.



But thank you for asking that and as simple as that and the terms and conditions, we can all have serious, weird, and interesting discussions.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


The only bottleneck I find is reaching the 20 posts reqd to start a new thread.
And I cannot understand why my avtar does not appear.
ATS is a good site regardless of being managed bythe people in the know, which may include extraterrestrials.

Cheers

Good thread.

I am a pretty new member here and have only made a few posts and only created 2 threads.

I have read the terms and conditions and in fact, have read them several times since one of the two threads I created lasted 20 minutes before being summarily flushed down the memory hole.

I agree with all of the ATS terms and conditions both practically and philosophically. However, it is the application of those T&C that I have a problem with. Like any set of rules or guidlines a degree of common sense and reasonable interpretation is needed for them to be respected and uniformly applied. In my very limited experience here that has not been the case.

I won't take the time to go in to specifics here now but let me just say that the whole ATS Motto "deny ignorance" is about as honest and adhered to as Google's silly little placating mantra of: "Don't be Evil."

I find myself extremely disappointed in ATS and in many ways wish i would have simply stuck to the occassional reading of threads and posts that interested me without creating an account. Now that I have had to deal with caprice moderators and non-responsive mgmt., I have a sour taste for the entire site.

In any case this is a good topic that clearly needs more attention from everyone both members and moderators.

Do I feel that the T&C are that difficult to follow?

Not at all. They are an excellent method of maintaining order and relaying guidance...IN THEORY.

The problem with them is that they are inconsistently applied.

And the Complaint/Suggestion system doesn't work. Why do I say that? Because a system where there is no feedback is a broken system.

Many times, a complaint/suggestion will be totally ignored. Totally ignored, despite a specific request for feedback. No response back from staff. And the answer "things are being worked in the background that you don't see" doesn't cut it. How much effort does it take to fire off a 30 second response to a member that made a complaint and asked for feedback?

So what happens in this case where a complaint is ignored? Frustration. Which leads to what? It depends on the mood of the member, and how important the issue is. Most often, it ends up causing more frustration.

That's what is wrong with the T&C. It is a broken loop.

I think the Mods do a good enough job of getting the message across, I don't think we need other members telling us as well. you speak as though we are all stupid and with a "looking down at us" kind of attitude. I make great post" Blah Blah Blah, chill on the Ego man.

Originally posted by Whine Flu
I really don't care to read the Terms and Conditions of anything. Do you know how long I'd be sitting there everytime I'd install a program or sign up to various websites?

You make a valid point. When you look at the number of participating members we have, it becomes readily apparent that the vast majority of people can get by with not reading the T&C since they're an expanded version of the same basic rules taught in Kindergarten. Unfortunately, just because they're taught, doesn't mean they're learned.

There's also a T&C Lite available for quick reference.