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posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 06:50 PM
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It´s enough...I thought it was rules about to not make multiple threads about the same topic, but maby i was wrong...
Ist´s so sad to read thread after thread from some poor souls that been brainwashed by the republican media machine...that´s is how i want to see it, because i can´t believe that so many of the americans are so so greedy and empty in their hearts, so they actually support the republican circus...
Have you no shame in your body, when you actually deny the poorest of you sickcare...you know they also helped to build your nation, and now you make them living in misery...it¨s almost as bad as you treat your homecoming soldiers...

Mod Edit - All Caps Title.

[edit on Fri, 26 Mar 2010 00:10:45 -0500 by MemoryShock]




posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by OddTimeSignature
 


Where are you from? Becuase it doesn't sound like you live (or have'nt even visited the U.S.)? Would you give 45% of your pay to someone who doesn't give back? Becuase they are too lazy or just think they are "entitled".



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 06:55 PM
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OK, Let's get something straight.. most of us don't like the bill. Not about helping the poor at all.

There are MUCH better ways to reform healthcare that doesn't involve hiring thousands of lazy inefficient government workers to oversee a working system. And contrary to belief, it works for 80% of us. Fraud, Waste, and Abuse are killing the Government run systems... why, because they are not a private company that has to make a profit and they are not actively investigating Fraud, why would they, lazy government workers have no incentive to work hard as it is almost impossible to fire them. Government is inefficient because they have NO INCENTIVE to perform. That is why there is Billions in fraud in Medicare. President Obama has mentioned this fraud numerous times but instead of addressing the fraud, we SUBTRACT the estimated fraud today from Medicare tomorrow. Well, what's going to change in Medicare to actually STOP this fraud? Nothing.



NOBODY will argue that REFORM is needed and we have many ways to really reform the system that doesn't include massive tax hikes on the "working" population.

We see how the European societies are faring. We also see how Bankrupt Massachusetts is from their experiment.

A Crap Bill is a Crap Bill, doesn't matter if a R or a D is pushing it... crap is crap.


If GEORGE BUSH and the Republicans were pushing this plan 3 years ago... would YOU STILL SUPPORT IT? Think about that, I pretty much know the answer... The LEFT WOULD BE GOING FREEKING CRAZY about such a scheme, and what's worse, you know it but won't admit it.

Let me give you a summary of a BETTER solution.

OK, every medical procedure that you have to pay for the price goes down DRAMATICALLY as competition grows.

Lasik Eye Surgery is a great example of this. When Doctors, Hospitals, and Imaging Centers post prices and advertise, prices go down. It is a fact and would easily work. Problem is with Insurance that pays 80%, 90%, ALL etc. there is no incentive to shop around. If Insurance, Medicare, etc all had posted "payout" per procedure (this is for common procedures not emergency medicine which we should keep on a % basis with max out of pocket) and make all healthcare providers post their prices, then you as the consumer can choose where to get your medical procedures based on what you would have to pay over and above the "coverage" for the procedure.

Anyway, as all states have different standards and we MUST have all insurance providers that want to complete. We simply set a minimum standard across the board that should be the average to above average what the states are today otherwise all insurance companies move to the most "lax" standard state. Now, instead of having your company choose an insurer. ALL U.S. citizens are able to choose any provider and their plan based on the allocated amount your company pays. So for example if your company currently pays $8,000 per employee for X company. You have $8000 to use to choose the company and plan that is right for you. This is very similar to the "Federal Employee Insurance Program". If you select a plan that cost more than that $8,000 then you pay the difference just as you do today with your employer.


All Heathcare providers must take all insurance (otherwise you get what we have today with special referrals, etc.) Remainder is billed to you. So if your insurance pays out $85 for an office visit and you see some Doctors charging $150.00, then you would be stuck with the rest. Watch how fast you see competition, newspaper adds, etc. The Free Market will bring down cost exactly as we have seen in Lazik and Optometrist. When you get stuck with the difference you take responsibility and don't allow yourself to get overcharged.

Now every plan has standard payouts per standard procedures... office visit, MRI, Catscans, etc. And YOU can choose where to get that service. This will force competition.


(NOTE: ABC News did an investigative report lately that showed the variance in cost of an MRI in a US city. One place charged as much as $10,000 for the same MRI another place was charging $2,500 for. Today, they don't post their prices and you usually have no idea what the cost is from place to place... thus you get an MRI, insurance pays it's 90% or 100% or whatever and OUR prices all go up next year because places are bilking the system because they do not have to post their prices.)
OK, very simplistic, not a complete explanation but I think you get the point.

What is wrong with this bill.

One, You got to have insurance. This is the first time the Government has mandated that you MUST have a good or service. You don't have to have auto insurance if you don't drive. You don't HAVE to BUY anything in this country by law until now. So, Do you think the Insurance company prices are going to go down? If you say yes your crazy, now you must have them, Medical facilities still do not have to complete, they can charge whatever they want and insurance will pay for it minus your deductible and prices will continue to soar. Only now, we (the people that work) will get taxed more to pay for it and pay more for my damned own... Who does this help? Only people who don't pay freeking taxes.... Joy, why work in this country, it is becoming easier to just kick back on social programs. It is ridiculous.

Now, what have we achieved with this bill? Why not just have the uninsured buy into Medicare? Oh, I forget... now we the taxpayer get to Buy them into Blue cross.... and not solving a single damned problem with cost and competition or tort reform, or negotiating with the drug companies.



Anyway, for those who DO NOT have insurance, The U.S. Government will GIVE them X$ to buy their plan just like everyone else.... Oh, where do we get the money.. I will tell you exactly how... IMPORT TARIFFS through a FAIR TRADE BILL.

So, you think it is great to outsource U.S. jobs to slave labor in China... access a FAIR TRADE import tax on all imported goods that have unfair market advantage.... yes that means KIA Autos as well since they can ship 10s of thousands of Korean Kias and Hyundis to the US but we are limited to a small set number of our cars to Korea.

Proceeds from Tariffs go right into the Healthcare fund for the poor and elderly. Oh, guess what, more jobs in the U.S. as well...

Oh, what a crappy idea, TAX the imports of those practicing unfair labor practices & slave labor instead of those who are left "working" in the U.S.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by infolurker]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by infolurker
 


Amen! Why do I the person who goes to work everyday have to pay for someone who "can't" "ain't" "too hard" "I live with my parents" "I can't lose my benefits" "I axed to work at Mciidy's but they don't want me" have to work.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by CORN IS NUTS
 


Well maby they fooled you by believing you have to pay 45 percent extra for the bill on your salary...and those lazys that you talk about...maby there burnouts or wounded by working...



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by CORN IS NUTS
reply to post by OddTimeSignature
 


Where are you from? Becuase it doesn't sound like you live (or have'nt even visited the U.S.)? Would you give 45% of your pay to someone who doesn't give back? Becuase they are too lazy or just think they are "entitled".


If he is a European, he would respond with a resounding "YES!!!"

Also I wasn't aware of a republican media machine? I don't have cable, nor do I check FOXs website, and yet I am still agitated that our elected officials chose to ignore the people and force something on us we as a majority don't want.... but then again, I guess I am just a racist?



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:10 PM
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I am all for everyone being able to access health care without having to worry about money. But at 3,000 pages, the bill is no longer about "affordable health care". There is just way to much secrecy involved and for that reason alone it should not have been passed.

Obama keeps talking about "sticking it back" to the insurance man, well then then here the bill should have said, "as your government, we will beat any insurance companies rates, give you world class health care, and make sure you are never denied coverage"



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by OddTimeSignature
 


The "Republican" media machine?

lol, wow.... You have A LOT to learn my friend...



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:13 PM
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And when did you americans loose your faith so you measure your fellow american well-being in money...that is what the companies do...



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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When did you loose your temper? Seriously all this is going to casue is people flaming eachother. This thread is pointless it is just going to casue tension between all members on ATS.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by OddTimeSignature
 


It's "lose."

And it isn't really the "American's" fault, they have been deceived and manipulated for centuries now by people and agendas that they don't even know exist.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by Maddogkull
 


Well maby that the problem...you people dont get angry enough, and rise to take back the power where it´s belong...among the ordinary american...



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by OddTimeSignature
 


O.K. So now i am "burned out" or "wounded" by working for the last 15+ years of my life. Does that mean if I have had enough that I just stop and hope that the Gov't will help me? Get up! Get a job! I don't care if it is shoveling crap or working at Mc'D's. Do what you need to do to support your self (or your family). Live int the woods for all I care; just don't take away from my hard earned dollars because you are "entitled". Be a human being and take care of your self



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:25 PM
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I respect my government, after all we have the best government the world has ever seen!

We need to learn to trust our leaders. After all, we the people elected them!

Let's learn to love the needy and help the poor at every turn!



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:25 PM
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We have health care for the poor, for the old and disabled, it is called Medicaid.
It is not the greatest and it can be fixed to help more people.
You see, this bill that just passed, is not going to give FREE health care to the people that can't afford it because they have to pay so many bills, this is going to MAKE them buy the health care insurance from a company that sells it.
If you have too many bills, like rent, child support, loans, car payment, etc.. and you can't pay to BUY the health care, you are going to have to pay the government as punishment.
This is why so many people are angry and because too many hidden things were included in the bill.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:26 PM
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I know what your saying, what's more annoying is the constant whining from American members. Sure you guys got it tough and I feel for ya, but come live in the UK for a few months. We are getting shat on from every angel and have been for the past 10+ years, as I British citizen I no longer feel like this is my country. However I don't whine about it all the time because it could be worse, I could live in Haiti or Chile or among the millions of starving people around the world.

GROW A PAIR, Do something about it if it bothers you so much, sat behind a PC all day whining all the time isn't going to solve nothing.

ATS is not what it used to be, I look at the recent topics and 9/10 I just log off because it's the same old repetitive crap. Obama this Obama that, Doom on this, Doom on that, Earthquakes are gonna kill us, Yellowstone is going to kill us, Nukes are going to kill us, the fing moon is going to kills us, Space isn't real, Monkeys killed JFK. It's utter nonsense you are making the rest of us look like fing idiots.

I really have to find something that interest me about ATS to keep me here, at the moment I feel like logging off and pretending I never came across ATS.

In fact that's what I shall do, ooops and yes the door hit me on the way out but I am not complaining.

I respect American people, I respect all people but come on there has to be a line in the sand.

Goodbye ATS.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by Diplomat
 


No of course it´s not the americans fault...in the past...but nowdays you are aware about your corrupt senate and government...a revolution not have to be violent, just enough people have to be in it...



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by OddTimeSignature
 


I am actually Canadian and I like my government btw. I am content on not taking any power back because I do not feel threatened.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:30 PM
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reply to post by NotAgain
 


right on...



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:32 PM
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reply to post by OddTimeSignature
 


Actually, no. The average American today doesn't know his you know what from a hole in the ground. Most of them have no clue of anything "conspiratorial" and think everything is just fine.



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