Homosexuality is a choice and nothing else!

Originally posted by Pauligirl
But it's not what you said. Quoting you from above "Am I straight now? No - I am still not attracted to men in that way "

So you can't choose to be attracted to a man. It wasn't your choice to be attracted to women either. It just is what it is.

The only time choice comes in is in deciding to act on the attraction.
Not everybody wants to give up happiness.

That's where nature comes in. It is natural to be sexually attracted to the opposite sex. It is unnatural to engage in sexual relations with somebody of the same sex. Look at body parts and how the human body is "designed".

[edit on 25/3/2010 by Dark Ghost]

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Choice is a moot point. It doesn't really matter. Too much importance is placed upon peoples sexuality. I say, stop trying to dissect it and just accept it.

IRM

[edit on 25/3/10 by InfaRedMan]

reply to post by nomorecruelty


I find this fairly amusing since there have been numerous cases of rampant homosexuality and pedophelia in churches across the planet. Perhaps you should focus on fixing immoral behaviour in your own dogma before you try to write off an entire population group as hell bound.

Also, can you show me direct data that links homosexual behaviour and the trends of an immoral society or as you hinted in a former post about homosexuality being a major cause of a nations downfall -- do you have proof for any of these claims?

[edit on 25-3-2010 by DisappearCompletely]

Originally posted by Torgo
reply to post by nomorecruelty

 

That's quite the revelation! Doesn't it bother you though, that you have to fight the urge to be who you've always been just to find acceptance in God's eyes? Even now, you admit that you're not sexually attracted to men and God refuses to answer your prayers to make that a reality. Don't you think that maybe that's God's way of telling you to be who you are? Believe you me, Heterosexuals are no more immune to STDs and drama than homosexuals. You just need to practice safe sex (or abstinence) and look for a compatible partner.

Jesus, who was your God incarnate, said nothing at all about homosexuality. If it were such a dire sin, one that would soon develop into it's own "agenda" to corrupt the souls of millions, don't you think he would have warned us? Don't you think it's odd that the OT God was a God of wrath and vengeance, yet Jesus was the most peaceful soul you could ever hope to encounter? Maybe God wasn't able to get his true message of love and acceptance through to us until he could do it in the flesh, and not through some interpreter biased by the time and place in which he lived.

You misunderstood what I wrote - I haven't prayed and asked God to "make me straight" - because to be honest, my earlier history with men has probably left a permanent negative mark on me - so I haven't asked for that - if God wants me to marry a man, then He'll work that out. I trust Him to make the right choices for me.

Personally speaking, I have no "attraction" to men - not in a sexual way - I never have. Even though I choose not to be a lesbian, I'm still a devout feminist at times. lol

And if you read the Bible, He does warn us of the sin(s) - but if you read from a "modern day" so called "bible", chances are you're going to read that it isn't a sin - or someone will tell you that "Oh, that part in the Bible is misunderstood", etc.

That isn't true - I would imagine that straight unmarried people wish their sin wasn't highlighted in the Bible either - but it is.

The Bible speaks in several places about homosexuality - no, it doesn't call it that as that word is man made and wasn't even a word at that time. But it does address same sex - a few times. Ironically enough I was reading the Bible today and ran across another mention of it - that I had not seen before. It was in John 1: 3 if I remember correctly. But it's mentioned in the OT and NT if you just want to look it up.

And, no, leaving that lifestyle, actually both lifestyles I guess, hasn't bothered me in the least. To be honest, I really thought it would - because it was, I felt, "who I was" in life - but come to find out that was only my flesh whining. lol

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Choice is a moot point. It doesn't really matter. Too much importance is placed upon peoples sexuality. I say, stop trying to dissect it and just accept it.

IRM

[edit on 25/3/10 by InfaRedMan]

I think that's what satan wants us to believe......... "just accept it".

People are defined by their choices in life - that is what makes character.

So I would say that choice is a very important thing - it determines who

we really are in life.

Originally posted by DisappearCompletely
reply to post by nomorecruelty

 

I find this fairly amusing since there have been numerous cases of rampant homosexuality and pedophelia in churches across the planet. Perhaps you should focus on fixing immoral behaviour in your own dogma before you try to write off an entire population group as hell bound.

Also, can you show me direct data that links homosexual behaviour and the trends of an immoral society or as you hinted in a former post about homosexuality being a major cause of a nations downfall -- do you have proof for any of these claims?

[edit on 25-3-2010 by DisappearCompletely]

You can read about the downfalls in the Bible, or in secular history books, if they haven't "removed" the information by now.

Sodom and Gomorrah is probably the most infamous example - and before you say that it wasn't referring to homosexuality, you should read Jude in the Bible.

And if you need proof that the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were truly physically destroyed, you can view THIS

Jude 1:7

7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by nomorecruelty]

"The Gospel According to John"

Ch. 1 Verse 3. Quote;

All (NOT Some things)
were made through HIM (God),
and without HIM (God)
nothing was made
that was made.

Nomorecruelty,

What you are failing to see is that you have a misconception as to what homosexuality IS. You believe it is a choice and stemming from that you are saying that if people CHOOSE to commit "sin" then they are responsible. I agree, we are all responsible for our actions, however you have to come to the understanding that even though you see homosexuality and homosexuals behaviour as unnatural and wrong, they see heterosexuality as the same thing.

They are simply being themselves and true to themselves - which is difficult when we live in a time of everyone judging everyone.

These people SEE people of the same sex as potential partners, it is not a matter of "hmm i want to sleep with that guy/girl cause i want to be gay" - it's "oh id like to sleep with that guy/girl because i am SEXUALLY attracted to them.

God did create human kind and all existence, so therefor he created everything herein. If you try and say god did not create them, then you are saying that something else did - in your view, what did create homosexuality?

Saying that they are giving into "urges" is an interesting thing. The fact is, what do you consider an urge? I have the urge to scratch my nose when i have an itch, that's not weakness, it's a reaction to a stimuli.

Having said that, it is also well known that at some points in a persons life, they MAY find some one else of the same sex appealing, not that they would act on it, but there is a distinct difference between apeal and sexual interest.

Also, giving into "urges" is different from following ones own natural inclination, the way they were born and developed - by the hand of God and God's intentions/desires.

God did create burgulars and murderers and rapists.. God created HUMAN KIND. which encapsulates all kinds of humans, the "negative" and the "positive".

I respect your opinion, however i do think you need to try and see it from their perspective, not that i can either, but i can empathise, let me try and give you a glimpse of what it would be like if i or you were subject to the same ruling because we are heterosexual.

Let's turn this around and imagine that the world was predominantly gay. You are born into a gay family (by whatever imaginary means) and you grow up in a gay environment, yet you like people of the opposite sex. This creates a conundrum. Do you let everyone know that you are, in your own natural way, hetero? or do you conseal it? and become a CLOSETED hetero.

Given that the world is then going to be leaning towards gay being the "right" way and the social stigma attached to that, would you feel BAD for being heterosexual? No, however you would feel akward and not wish to let other people know of your orientation. Think of your life then, if you were only able to partake in a hetero couple environment in secret. It does not make it wrong, because to you it's natural you are merely acting out your natural inclination to the opposite sex.

What you have said, is in essense, the real reason why homosexuals dont feel comfortable coming out and being accepted as who they are. Do not be a barrier. It is not your job to decide that which is right and wrong, God will judge people accordingly and even those, who live by his rules, yet judge others as if they have some precedent of "right" living, will be judged accordingly.

I suggest some serious and open minded approach to understanding homosexuals, the analogy i gave above of the world being gay, would be a good place to start. If it is natural to them (which it undeniably is) then there is no issue. However, there are healthy ways of expressing their love for each other, both behind and in open door scenarios.

God loves all, God created all, we are responsible for our sin, but i do not honetsly believe that God would punish something which he created and by doing so, have created a situation where god would have to punish for following normal (for gay people) and natural (for gay people) activities.

Im not going to say you are a homophobe, however preaching the gospel and saying this and that about sexuality is kind of a moot point, when it seems you are all caught up in "the rules" (which are right) and forgetting the base principles that Jesus preached.

I have to say though, that i do believe homosexuality is being pushed in media as a lifestyle of "choice" - which it is not, ask any homosexual person, they never chose, they just WERE. I do not feel that pushing homosexual lifestyle is RIGHT, nor do i think that pushing and reinforcing hetero lifestyle is right either. People must do what is RIGHT for them.

ACCEPTANCE and TOLERANCE

regardless of ethnicity or sexual preference or gender or age.

reply to post by nomorecruelty

And again, that's their choice whether they share them or not.

I don't have any problems with people choosing to be any way
that they want to be - thief, murderer, fast driver (lol) or whatever
they choose -

So now you're comparing people of different faiths to thieves and murderers? I think you're putting God in a box here, just like the authors of the Bible did, by telling others who were brought up with different beliefs that their path to spiritual enlightenment is a false one. It doesn't matter to which entity you pray, they all represent the same force that is behind this universe. As long as you are guided by love, acceptance, and forgiveness you are on the right path.

Leaving god out of this for a moment.......

If being gay is not a choice but rather a "hard wired" attraction without choice and without the ability to change.

Then what of other attractions....


There are people attracted to animals
I saw a show on people who are attracted to inanimate objects
Then there are those who are "attracted to children"

As for the the latter, those people are either condemned or treated with councelling and/or drugs. Some of these people claim they cannot help their attraction, it is "hard wired".

So if we have "normal" heterosexuals
homosexuals and other ___sexuals all claiming their attractions to be a "born with" attraction.

How can we differentiate between any of them? How can we say one is normal and another is not, or is a "sickness"?

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
"The Gospel According to John"

Ch. 1 Verse 3. Quote;

All (NOT Some things)
were made through HIM (God),
and without HIM (God)
nothing was made
that was made.

I corrected that in my last post......... it was from Jude 1
not John 1.

Sorry, my bad - how do these preachers memorize all of this??

reply to post by nomorecruelty


No, what I said was correct, Jesus never mentions homosexuality. Only the authors of the bible do.

reply to post by FeralMonkeyMagic


I have seen it, up close and personal, from their perspective -

I'm not telling people they have to make the choice I did - I'm saying
that whoever God created you to be, you have a choice to sin or not
sin.

Or a choice to act or not act. Smoke or not smoke. Murder or not murder, etc.

It still comes down to choice and everyone has a choice in every situation.

And like most choices, there are consequences to those choices.

Just make an educated decision I guess?

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
You can read about the downfalls in the Bible, or in secular history books, if they haven't "removed" the information by now.

Sodom and Gomorrah is probably the most infamous example - and before you say that it wasn't referring to homosexuality, you should read Jude in the Bible.

And if you need proof that the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were truly physically destroyed, you can view THIS

Jude 1:7

7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by nomorecruelty]

It's funny that I knew you were going to reply with this very response (including ignoring your own religion's immoral practices).

Can you provide me with peer reviewed, scholarly evidence (not the Bible) that links homosexuality to the downfall of any civilization? This should be a fairly easy (or not) thing to do since homosexuality has been common in some of the most prestigious empires.

Also, same sex marriage has been legal in Canada for several years now; can you provide evidence that Canadian morals are starting to decay?

[edit on 25-3-2010 by DisappearCompletely]

Originally posted by Torgo
reply to post by nomorecruelty

 

And again, that's their choice whether they share them or not.

I don't have any problems with people choosing to be any way
that they want to be - thief, murderer, fast driver (lol) or whatever
they choose -

So now you're comparing people of different faiths to thieves and murderers? I think you're putting God in a box here, just like the authors of the Bible did, by telling others who were brought up with different beliefs that their path to spiritual enlightenment is a false one. It doesn't matter to which entity you pray, they all represent the same force that is behind this universe. As long as you are guided by love, acceptance, and forgiveness you are on the right path.

Homosexuality isn't a faith - so no, I'm not comparing people of different faith to murderers and thieves.

I AM comparing homosexuality to all other sins - there isn't a difference.

Faith has nothing to do with homosexuality.

And like I disagreed when I heard Oprah say this, I do not agree that there are "many" ways to God, or Heaven.

There is one, Jesus Christ.

That is my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Originally posted by Torgo
reply to post by nomorecruelty

 

No, what I said was correct, Jesus never mentions homosexuality. Only the authors of the bible do.

The entire Scriptures were inspired by God - did he take a Bic and write it?
No - I'm sure He could have - but He had His reasons for doing it the way that He did.

You can choose to split hairs to try to make your point valid - but that won't necessarily make it so.

an educated decision based on what you feel is what is called TRUTH.

you are lying to yourself if you act in a manner that is unnatural to yourself.

smoking isnt a sin, nor is "murder" under certain circumstances. It is all contextual.

You are missing the point of acceptance, which is what jesus preached. Considering that catholocism and Christianity are fundementally based on his teachings, i fail to see where you could misinterpret this.

Basing your rules in life, on what decisions were made at the councel of nicea, where MEN decided what to put in to the bible and what not to, should give an indication of control that those who edited the bible, wished to instill.

I also find it funny, that the bible does not have the scripture Jesus wrote, which was deliberately left out, probably because it was too agreeing and human and accepting, so they chose to leave in recollections of past events that were regurgitated from sons and brothers of the original author.

Live by Jesus' law, whcih by default is God's law.

When you live by the laws of man, you are destined for the gallows, eternally and in this life.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


Nothing which exists, or which we can imagine, is unnatural. Murder, thievery, rape, the construction of domiciles (beehives, nests, skyscrapers), etc., are all represented in the animal kingdom. I know the person in the video I'm about to post has a polarizing persona, but he makes the point rather well.



[edit on 26-3-2010 by Torgo]

Originally posted by DisappearCompletely

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
You can read about the downfalls in the Bible, or in secular history books, if they haven't "removed" the information by now.

Sodom and Gomorrah is probably the most infamous example - and before you say that it wasn't referring to homosexuality, you should read Jude in the Bible.

And if you need proof that the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were truly physically destroyed, you can view THIS

Jude 1:7

7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by nomorecruelty]

It's funny that I knew you were going to reply with this very response (including ignoring your own religion's immoral practices).

Can you provide me with peer reviewed, scholarly evidence (not the Bible) that links homosexuality to the downfall of any civilization? This should be a fairly easy (or not) thing to do since homosexuality has been common in some of the most prestigious empires.

Also, same sex marriage has been legal in Canada for several years now; can you provide evidence that Canadian morals are starting to decay?

[edit on 25-3-2010 by DisappearCompletely]

ignoring your own religion's immoral practices). ?

I'm not ignoring any religion's immoral practices as I don't
subscribe to any manmade "religion".

God didn't create all of these "religions" - man did. Don't blame
God for what we've created - and screwed up.

Noah's Flood - was due to evil and corruption. Did it mention homosexuality in particular? No. Does that mean it wasn't going on? No.

Sodom and Gomorrah was, I'm fairly certain as most things in there are, put in there as an example of the consequences of sin, period - but in those two cities, for homosexuality and promiscuity.

Rome - they also fell from sin -

Today? Look out your window, fire up CNN or Fox News - if you don't see our downfall coming down the pipeline, you aren't looking hard enough.

reply to post by FeralMonkeyMagic


If you can show me one shred of wording in the Bible that condones homosexuality, I'll concede.

Knowing that no one can do this, I would suggest that maybe you get yourself a Authorized 1611 King James Bible - or learn Hebrew and read the written scrolls - and refresh your memory on what the Bible truly says.