Homosexuality is a choice and nothing else!

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posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 08:25 PM
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I find it amazig that there are people still out there in society that believe being gay is a choice.

Most gay people if not all find the process of coming out to family and friends very painful, even today. If it were simly down to choice most would choose to be straight, it's far easier.

I remember seeing an article about a young man who in the early 70's was given electroshock therepy to get rid of his homosexuality. The emotional and physical pain he suffered wishing, praying to be straight broke him. He many years later went to a gay bar and saw the doctor who administered the electric shocks to him chatting up another guy at the bar. He punched him out cold.

As for being a mutant!!! We are all unique, no two people are the same, so that would make you a mutant too.




posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by dampnickers


Actually, let's just stop this pointless diatribe. It seems you have singled me out to troll this thread, and I'm not interested in it any more.

I have said all I feel I need to on this topic with you for now.

Peace.




Er... did I reply to you on page 1... or did you single me out?

Hmmmm......

Yeah.... so who singled who out?



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 08:26 PM
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Unless you are gay you are speaking out of complete ignorance. Bottomline.

That would be like telling the astronauts what they did and didn't see in space.

I often marvel at the ignorance that abounds here.



[edit on 25-3-2010 by kleverone]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by ZombieOctopus

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
There is so much data out there, some saying it is a choice some saying not, there is both so now what.


There's real scientific literature to explain homosexuality as a biological reality, and then there's people who don't bother to read anything that doesn't agree with their existing world view who say it's a choice. I kind of expected more from you to be honest MA.

Can you produce even one published scientific paper, coming from a formal, respected journal in the last lets say 5 years, not written by Doctors Christington and Republitard, which comes to the conclusion that you chose to be either heterosexual or homosexual? Because I think you're showing a terrible personal bias not backed up by anything but prejudice and misinformation.



I take it you're gathering your "data" to support your claim that sexual orientation is a choice, or you've decided to ignore my post.

If you'd like to concede that you have no scientific evidence to support that claim and it's really just personal prejudice, that's fine too.

Edit: I'll check back later

[edit on 3/25/2010 by ZombieOctopus]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by kleverone
 


I respectfully disagree kleverone. I think we all know what we like. I think we always knew what we wanted, regardless of our sexual inclinations.

I didn't ever make a choice to be heterosexual, I knew I was attracted to girls (when I was a boy) from the first time I pondered the curves of the lifeguard when I was learning to swim. I must've been seven. Her name was Kelly C_ _ _ _ _. She was coltish and beautiful.

edit to add: I reread what you wrote....... and I think I misunderstood to some degree. I agree that only those that are homosexual can really speak with validity as to the reason for their sexuality, but I also believe that in a broader sense, none of us have ever actually chosen to be the way we are.

Apologies if my post to you sounded snippy.

cheers



[edit on 25/3/10 by argentus]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Okay, I know i'm going to get flamed here
and people, let's keep it civil so mods don't delete the thread!

Too many people say that homosexuality is not a choice, some say "I know how I feel, I feel diferent", of course you feel different... you are different!

But to say that homosexuality is not a choice and there is some DNA change causing homosexuality doesn't mean you are calling them mutants?

I am serious, if they are not homosexual by choice then please explain to me how that is not mutation.
No I am not calling homosexual mutants, if YOU say they do not make that choice then YOU are saying they are!

There is so much data out there, some saying it is a choice some saying not, there is both so now what. Lets just rely on logic.

If it is not mutation but also isnt a choice then heterosexuals would also say it is not a choice. And saying it is a choice means it is a mental decision while saying it is not is a physical one.

Thoughts


Yeah go ahead and keep believing that. Way to deny ignorance there chief.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by mkross1983]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by argentus
 


I like it.

This is actually one of the best threads I have been on for quite some time. Your response is succinct, in a word, and makes a good point.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by dampnickers
 


Much appreciated dampnickers ;o)

So, why, when I read my response to your question, does it sound to me like something Glenda the good witch would say?


Sorry. I don't know what comes over me some times.

cheers



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 08:46 PM
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I'm straight, but have always had gay friends. They all have told me that they knew they were gay or different from their earliest memories on. Lets say being gay was the norm and you had these weird straight feelings, think you could turn it off? You may not understand it but since you're not gay it's not really your place to.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier78
I'm straight, but have always had gay friends. They all have told me that they knew they were gay or different from their earliest memories on. Lets say being gay was the norm and you had these weird straight feelings, think you could turn it off? You may not understand it but since you're not gay it's not really your place to.


Exactly. My brother is gay and he knew since before he was a teenager that he wasn't into what everyone else was.

It's not a choice. OP is wrong.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 08:59 PM
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Well, I'm a bisexual. I go both ways, or, at least I used to, and I do in my head. But after "coming out", and being treated like I'm less than human by the majority of people I know, I quickly learned to not tell people unless I'd put my life in their hands.

It's views like yours that hurt people, you claim to use logic, but all you're using are ideals and what you're brought up on. You can't use "logic", if we don't know the cause yet. Logic means nothing, unless it has a stable background. Your logic is based on flawed views and opinions, and you really don't know how much those views hurt people.

But, I do applaud your courage of at least discussing your opinions, even though you get to hide behind a keyboard and monitor. Good luck to you.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 09:05 PM
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I think we need to delve deeper into our own sexual desires and wants in order to more understand attraction in general, I don't think being gay is genetic, nor do I think it's a choice, I think it's a general attraction, in the same way some men can like certain parts of a woman, if you know what I mean.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 09:12 PM
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Today, there are a great number of people convinced that being gay is not a choice. People are gay because they want to be gay. I don't understand why straight people, defend them by saying it's not a choice, you try to defend them by comparing them to animals which you guys claim are "gay". All your are doing is choosing to go against God's revelation and teaching's. For myself, God's opinion matters more to me than any person that would try to tell me and convince me that homosexuality is not a choice. So, I also don't care what your respondes are to my comment, the Qur'an and the old scriptures teach me to warn people that if they commit in homosexual behavior, then they will be dealt by God when their day comes. Have a nice day and remain blessed everybody.

Deuteronomy 22:13) ''If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by Armin
Today, there are a great number of people convinced that being gay is not a choice. People are gay because they want to be gay. I don't understand why straight people, defend them by saying it's not a choice, you try to defend them by comparing them to animals which you guys claim are "gay". All your are doing is choosing to go against God's revelation and teaching's. For myself, God's opinion matters more to me than any person that would try to tell me and convince me that homosexuality is not a choice. So, I also don't care what your respondes are to my comment, the Qur'an and the old scriptures teach me to warn people that if they commit in homosexual behavior, then they will be dealt by God when their day comes. Have a nice day and remain blessed everybody.

Deuteronomy 22:13) ''If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

That's incredibly ignorant.
YOU don't know these peoples thoughts, you don't know if its a choice or not, but we DO know, that people have been mercilessly killed for being gay, do you think its still a choice? Do you think someone would choose to be killed so they could be gay?



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 09:14 PM
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who cares if someone is gay. If anything good for them, more women for you. Also this is america, you know, "freedom"?

LMAO!! Same reason why nI love vegetarians....more meat for me!!

Seriuosly, though....and I speak from experience; The choice isn't one's sexual inclination..it's whether you act on it or not. Who among us has the strength to not act out our sexual feelings....which reminds me of my first sexual experience....it was scary!!!......I was all alone.

I could go on for hours on this subject b ut I'll wait to see if anybody responds...and how.

Jason



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by dampnickers
 


An example of the quirky nature of some genes.

Take nearsightedness for example .

I believe its about 25% of people have the genes for it .....

An inability to recognise a predator until you can smell its breath is a serious liability, in particular the span of time humans were hunter gathers . So why have these genes persisted ?


Gene-environment interaction.

Modern day hunter gather communities have low incidences of myopia .It is believed that when children began to attend school /learning to read that the eye impairment occurs. A genetic quirk being ` turned on` by environmental factors.



===============================================




This is something i was reading recently - it has some interesting observations relating to the "Darwinian paradox" posed by homosexuality.



Male homosexuality is difficult to explain under Darwinian evolutionary models, because carriers of genes predisposing towards male homosexuality would be likely to reproduce less than average, suggesting that alleles influencing homosexuality should progressively disappear from a population.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The researchers discovered that women tend to have more children when they inherit the same - as yet unidentified - genetic factors linked to homosexuality in men. This fertility boost more than compensates for the lack of offspring fathered by gay men, and keeps the "gay" genetic factors in circulation.

New Scientist

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This changed when previous work by Camperio Ciani and collaborators, published in 2004, showed that females in the maternal line of male homosexuals were more fertile than average.



These findings provide new insights into male homosexuality in humans. In particular, they promote a focus shift in which homosexuality should not be viewed as a detrimental trait (due to the reduced male fecundity it entails), but, rather, should be considered within the wider evolutionary framework of a characteristic with gender-specific benefits, and which promotes female fecundity. This may well be the evolutionary origin of this genetic trait in human beings.

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Food for thought .



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by SlapBassist531
 



I'd say the main factors of those that go homosexual tend to stem back towards relationships with their parents. Such as say for a male homosexual, he most likely has had problems with his father whether the father being abusive or not there, still a similar outcome, just as to if a mother babies the son too much I think it can lead to homosexual tendancies because they will pick up the femaniness...


Nope. Wrong, this was the thinking back in the dark ages! (The 1950s, I believe).

I had NO problems with my father, he never hit me, never abused me, barely ever raised his voice (even when I scratched my name on the dashboard of his new car...hey, I was maybe three?)

My mother? DEFINATELY not the "babying" type...she was the sort who'd throw you into the pool and shout "Swim!"



so that empirical evidence disproves that line of thinking? i say it reinforces it. you had a softspoken, gentle dad, and a more abbrasive mother. wouldn't you then prefer men because of that relationship?

homosexuality is not genetic or a mutation in DNA.
homosexuality only occurs in nature in extreme situations of species displacement/scarcity and the primal urge to mate is so overwhelming two animals will try to have a relationship.
homosexuality in humans is the simple cocktail of both nature and nurture. the relationship with your parents/family members and peers, and the chemical influences from your environment during important stages of development. that's all.

it shouldn't be any different for humans than animals. were so much more susceptiple to this change in behavior because of our huge psychological and emotional thresholds.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 09:18 PM
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[edit on 25-3-2010 by Wertdagf]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 

Oh G-d, I must be a mutant, I love chocolate ice cream but do not like vanilla.
Not a choice, not a decision, must be in that DNA.

Back to the drawing board dude.

P.S. I love yellow and I dislike green.




[edit on 25-3-2010 by impressme]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by kleverone
 


You may be right. I had a good buddy when we were in our early 20's. We used to go out chase girls, party. The usual stuff. I moved off. A few years latter, he came out gay. And not a little gay, but did the whole telling the family, friends, the whole world. It shocked everyone. I don't judge him one way or the other. It is his choice who he finds sexually appealing. I was just surprised. I don't know what happened in his case. Maybe it was always there, maybe it wasn't. Like you say, I don't know because I am a straight guy. I just found it really curious that he gave no signs, at least to me, that he liked the guys. He totally gave up the girls too. He is not bi. Just full on gay from what I heard. I haven't seen him since. I would probably ask him out of curiosity, but I don't wouldn't want to offend him. He is a good guy. Interesting thread.





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