Homosexuality is a choice and nothing else!

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

www.queerbychoice.com

not all gays say so

God! You dont seem to understand. How the hell can you choose to be gay? How can you choose who to love? You throw questions at people, but you dont answer the questions thrown at you. This site does not prove anything at all, not one thing. It does not answer any of my questions.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

But to say that homosexuality is not a choice and there is some DNA change causing homosexuality doesn't mean you are calling them mutants?

I don't know much about genetics or science for that matter. It could very well be true that we are 'mutants' or as I would like to put it have a mutation. Anyways every avenue needs to be explored to find out why exactly I am attracted to the same sex, it will always be a curiosity in the back of my head why I am the way I am.

But I'd like to also address the people who say it is a choice, you are right to an extent on that, I do choose who to have sexual contact with, but when it comes to attraction and falling in love, well that's something that I can't help. I just find my eyes wandering at whoever I find attractive, everyone else is the same way, ever been caught because your animalistic instincts wanted to check out the goods on a potential mate? This is hard wired into our brains. What controls who we are attracted to? I guess no one knows that, but all it takes is a little common sense to figure out that you don't choose who you are attracted to, you choose who you have sexual relations with.

Religious bigots tend to ignore this argument, I tried this argument on my grandmother when she found out I was gay, It didn't work. Some people would rather believe the words in a book written by unknown men over thousands of years. It's nothing but pure ignorance.

And it also doesn't help the fact that we have gay men and women who go to the centers to get 'cured' usually from family or societal pressure, or fear of hell, and sometimes because they hate themselves. Who you are attracted to is something you can never change, which sex you sleep with is something you can, i feel sorry for people who choose this path.

I have a family member, an uncle, who came out to me privately after I came out, I was the first person he had came out to. He's been married for 25 years and has 2 kids with his wife, he chose the path of lying to his wife about being in love with her, and he's been lieing to his kids. He's been going behind there backs and sleeping with complete strangers. He's chosen a very lonely road to go down, and a road that i've seen alot times end in suicide from loneliness and having to keep that mask on for so long. This is how it used to be all the time for gay people, hide your abnormality, get married and have a family, it sometimes tears the family apart and can end tragically.

That's exactly what the so called 'straight' camps do, is basically let you live a lie, and of course if you willfully go to one your going to come out 'straight' because that's what you want to be, I GUARANTEE that every single gay guy out there when they first realized there attraction the the same sex sat in bed and cried for the first few weeks and sometimes even months because they wanted to be straight, I did so to, I used to sit in bed and pray to be changed, I hated being this way, the stigmatism, everything, I sucked it up and moved on now. I grew up a little and now I wouldn't change me for anything, I love men and everything about them, well not everything. lol.

Anyways I done went on a huge rant and got completely off subject.

Originally posted by Jay-morris
God! You dont seem to understand. How the hell can you choose to be gay? How can you choose who to love? You throw questions at people, but you dont answer the questions thrown at you. This site does not prove anything at all, not one thing. It does not answer any of my questions.

Fine let's start all over
please give me your questions in bullet point format and I will try and answer all of them

I promise!

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Jay-morris
God! You dont seem to understand. How the hell can you choose to be gay? How can you choose who to love? You throw questions at people, but you dont answer the questions thrown at you. This site does not prove anything at all, not one thing. It does not answer any of my questions.

Fine let's start all over
please give me your questions in bullet point format and I will try and answer all of them

I promise!

Ok, so you did not even read my questions if you are asking me to repeat them! Not suprised. And all you can come up with was that rether stupid website that proves nothing.

So, if a gay person falls in love with another man, was that his choice to fall in love with him, or like us straight people, there was no choice, because we know we cant choose to fall in love with anyone.

Also, do you believe that gay people are lying, and they chose to fall in love with someone of the same sex?

Also, for all the gay people who have gone through hell. Lost there family and friends. Cried for days and months, even commiting suicide, that was because they chose to be gay?

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Ok, so you did not even read my questions if you are asking me to repeat them! Not suprised. And all you can come up with was that rether stupid website that proves nothing.

You also did not read my answers as the questions you asked were addressed in previous pages.

Originally posted by Jay-morris
So, if a gay person falls in love with another man, was that his choice to fall in love with him, or like us straight people, there was no choice, because we know we cant choose to fall in love with anyone.

whether your are gay or straight you choose to fall in love with the person

You saying that you have no choice who you fall in love with sounds a little fairy-tale-ish like "love at first sight" or something.

I don't believe in love at first sight, just attraction at first sight.

If you wish to stand on both legs in this debate I would focus on attraction not being a choice rather than love.

Love isn't instantaneous, i'm sure you agree it takes time.
You choose who to spend time with, you choose to bring the relationship to another level.

People fall in love and then sometimes break up.
It's the same mechanism for both
You can choose who to break up with, i'm assuming you agree with me here right?

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Also, do you believe that gay people are lying, and they chose to fall in love with someone of the same sex?

Well you believe that I am wrong correct?
But do you believe i am lying or just incorrect?
What does lying have to do with anything here?

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Also, for all the gay people who have gone through hell. Lost there family and friends. Cried for days and months, even commiting suicide, that was because they chose to be gay?

No, not because they chose to be gay but because they chose to allow situations in their lives to affect them too much
This is no fault of their own, it could happen to anyone
Stress and sadness are very powerful feelings.

They chose not to move on with their lives

I also would like to add that if they truly believed that they choose to be gay then that perhaps that would empower them to choose to move on as well.

Perhaps this many suicides and depressions would not have occured so much as it has. Just perhaps!

With that mentality you would definately empower them
They would think that their lives are in their own hands more

Saying gay people are not gay by choice if anything weakens gays.
Because you are telling them that their lives are not in their hands.
You are perhaps suppressing their freedoms in doing so.

My take on the subject is that same-gender attraction is some sort of genetic anomaly. Although it could just as much be due to nurture. A child is like a blank canvas, ready to be moulded. A child's' upbringing can define who that child will grow up to be, whether it will define their sexual preference, I don't know.

Again at the end of this (thus far) I am shown who is who and what people are really like.

Its amazing to me in this day and age to see how people are still in the dark ages.

Don't start none, won't be none.

If the GBLT community were f'ing on your lawn then I guess I could see a problem, but they are not so WHY THE FRACK DO YOU CARE?

And lets get down to it, if its because of the bible than yall need to stop picking and choosing your christian hate and start stoning witches and Tiger Woods. Thats in there too!

I think educated, open-minded people have a better understanding than backwoods hate spreading closeted homophobes preaching ignorance.

I love and accept all even if they are different, I forgive the ignorant for the do not know better but whats the excuse for people who are smart enough to know better and don't act as such.

Love to all even if they don't love you back.

reply to post by Loki Lyesmyth


Did you even read the contents of this thread?
there's no hate going on here bud

if you can't have a mature discussion either grow up and come back or dont'

It's hilarious when people say that others would choose to be tortured to death so they could sleep with a man.

Also I would like to bring up the a small factoid

One of the leading causes of teen suicide is homosexuality. Thats right!

Teens unable to come out in fear of being ridiculed, injured, bullied, kicked from their family, out of their church /faith commit suicide because they fear people and also run into major problems when told they are GOING TO HELL because they think Jenny is pretty or John is hot.

Drinking / Drugs and violent behavior also comes in as "outs" for teens who cannot cope normally with their sexuality and strike out or act out as a coping tool.

SAD BUT TRUE,

I cannot imagine being gay and loving your faith/god and being damned by the same faith... Can you imagine how horrible that must be?

To love your family so much, to just want to be accepted by your friends and you have to lie because they won't accept you, you have to hide your true beauty and potential.

Its so sad... what closed minded people are doing to our kids, but I guess thats OK because they are gay and sinners and thats their punishment from god......

WWJD? Remember!

reply to post by ModernAcademia


You are right on this, I did not mean in this thread specif, I was more concerned with where the ideas come from, the roots of the thought patterns that lead to discussions and thoughts on the topic.

I think thats the base of it. In the past there have been civilizations where homosexuality was a normal thing, where statesmen had younger male servants that were their lovers and it was NORMAL. Sure it was not everyones cup of tea, but it happened.

Its interesting to see that it comes down to a religious topic in the end or at least a moral issue. When there really is no morality involved in who someone chooses to love. Much like a few years back black men were killed for being with a white woman. Same type thing.

It hits home with me because I lost a really great friend growing up who killed himself because he was gay and he felt he couldn't. My follow-up post talks a bit about the situation with teens and suicide.


As for what I mentioned about seeing people true side, thats for sure. You get to know how people think when on these topics and you learn a bit more about them then they realize. Its like a tell in poker.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by makinho21
Isn't your deciding that homosexuality is bad simply your choice?

When did I say homosexuality is bad?
Please provide a quote of me saying

Originally posted by makinho21
I an neither gay or a gaybasher, i just find it funny that the tone of your post was as if you felt you had somehow "cornered" the gays with this new found insight and now they would have to - once and for all - pronounce themselves as in the wrong either way.

I'm sorry to tell you that you fail...

We are on like page what now?
Page 23 or something and after 23 pages you won't find me saying anywhere that I cornered Gays or said anything suggesting homosexuality is bad. But you just decided to say that for I don't know what reasons.

I'm sorry to tell you that you need to practice reading a little more
Your reading skills aren't too good

maybe you should read my opening line a few more times : I assume your definition of mutation is somehow negative. If that is not correct, I am sorry, but the way you presented your post is: here is one possible reality - gays are "mutations" - if they are not, it is simply their choice.

that seems to me like a "I have cornered you now gay ppl!" type of post.

What is the point of your post then? To either belittle gay people or show that religious folk are right (I know your not religious).

This thread seems entirely redundant if you have no stance one way or the other, considering you presented this notion of homosexuality being a mutation in the first place.

ModernAcademia

Lets see how many people come onto this thread and say they chose to fall in love with there girlfriend/boyfriend. You dont choose, you follow your feelings and go from there. If you believe that we all choose to fall in love, then why did you nake a thread just about gay people? surely what you basically means concerns us all, and not just a group, that seems strange to me.

I love my wife. I did not choose to love her, it just happened. You just know. Well, unless its you, then you will only know when you choose to fall in love.

I do believe that you believe what you are saying is true. But there are alot of crazy people out there who believe in alot of crazy stuff, does not make them right though, does it.

Originally posted by makinho21
maybe you should read my opening line a few more times : I assume your definition of mutation is somehow negative. If that is not correct, I am sorry, but the way you presented your post is: here is one possible reality - gays are "mutations" - if they are not, it is simply their choice.

Again reading skills!

The below is a copy and paste of my OP

I am serious, if they are not homosexual by choice then please explain to me how that is not mutation.
No I am not calling homosexual mutants, if YOU say they do not make that choice then YOU are saying they are!

Reading skills

I am pro same sex marriage but i agree with the OP here.

Look at twins:

They have the same genes, yet make completely different "choices".

I think homosexuality is something that occurs due to social constructs and personal relationships.

Originally posted by Jay-morris
If you believe that we all choose to fall in love, then why did you nake a thread just about gay people? surely what you basically means concerns us all, and not just a group, that seems strange to me.

Love is not a choice is not something I knew to be a topic really

Also please comment on what I mentioned about the idea that if gay people believed that being gay was a choice that perhaps would empower them and there wouldn't be so much sadness and suicide.

What do you think of that?
Thoughts?

They chose not to move on with their lives

I also would like to add that if they truly believed that they choose to be gay then that perhaps that would empower them to choose to move on as well.

Perhaps this many suicides and depressions would not have occured so much as it has. Just perhaps!

With that mentality you would definately empower them
They would think that their lives are in their own hands more

Saying gay people are not gay by choice if anything weakens gays.
Because you are telling them that their lives are not in their hands.
You are perhaps suppressing their freedoms in doing so.

What gives you the right to think you know what these people have gone through, and why they have gone through it. People like my brother. Thats it, i just cant take you seriously, and i am begining to think that you have another agender here.

Maybe you dont want to come across as a gay hater, so you do it this way by insulting gay people, while saying you dont hate them.

What you are saying about choosing who we fall in love with. Why dod you make this thread about gay people, when what you are saying involves us all?

[edit on 1-4-2010 by Jay-morris]

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Jay-morris
If you believe that we all choose to fall in love, then why did you nake a thread just about gay people? surely what you basically means concerns us all, and not just a group, that seems strange to me.

Love is not a choice is not something I knew to be a topic really

Also please comment on what I mentioned about the idea that if gay people believed that being gay was a choice that perhaps would empower them and there wouldn't be so much sadness and suicide.

What do you think of that?
Thoughts?

Because its not a choice, thats why. I cant "choose" to be gay, because i am not gay. I cant pretend to love a man, or be attracted to a man. Sigh!

Because its not a choice, thats why. I cant "choose" to be gay, because i am not gay. I cant pretend to love a man, or be attracted to a man. Sigh!

"sigh" lol I wish I were sexually attracted to men too, I wouldn't be single right now.... Sigh. :-p

reply to post by ModernAcademia

Homosexuality is a choice and nothing else!

I am just a regular Joe like most here. I don't hold any special position in life except to survive. I have no political ambitions nor do I support any political party.

In fact, I really dislike politics as a whole.

My personal view on homosexuality, from both sides of the gender divide, is that it is likely akin to a disease or birth defect. The difference between this and say... genetic by any name or any other, is that we choose to see it as being a natural state.

Nature does not purposely build creatures that cannot... or prefer not to partake in its continuance of survival. We must therefore assume that homosexuality is a birth defect or that nature may be seeking to reduce the numbers of said species by turning out those who will not reproduce by choice.

I think the current stigmas we have paced on the gay community are akin to those we once attached to lepers and even today pin on smokers.

Sexual preference is not something we can toy with... it comes pre-installed at birth.

If anything, maybe we should be seeking the causes and maybe a cure.