Homosexuality is a choice and nothing else!

There's no reason for anyone to start a survey, as many of the gay community here on ATS have said it was from a young age and they had no choice.

Every gay person i have asked or counselled has said it was from a young age, where their hormones started to take control. Anywhere between 7-21 years old.

In the sessions i hold, it is always an issue that homosexuals have no problem with their sexuality, yet they are having to deal with other people always marginalising them. It's one of the hardest things to work on, social stigma.

As a hetero, i dont think i cna think in the same way that a homo/bi/trans person does - in fact i know i cannot, however, i can try my best to empathise with their story and situation by applying my own experiences with love and women and life in general to try to help them in their situations.

so really, it should have ended at that, but there are always people willing to put their 2 cents in just to stir the pot.

I still feel horrible about how gays are treated by us heterosexuals, it's downright shamefull.

They are human beings as we all are.

Originally posted by JPhish
The OP is 100% right.

If you believe that being gay is not a choice, then anyone who exhibits homosexual behavior is a mutant.

Not only that, but they are likely an unfavorable mutation, because only a bad mutation would impair a creatures chances of procreating.

These are facts.

Eventually the mutation may become favorable if we evolve into hermaphrodites.

[edit on 3/31/2010 by JPhish]

Are you using (as well as the OP) the term 'mutant' in order to sound rude, make gay peoplel feel bad or just to ruff some feathers here? You can't for example say 'then it's probably somewhat genetic' as you can say 'those *** mutants!' instead? No offense, but it does SOUND like it..

Because the way you are using it (and yes, I agree.. ALL PEOPLE ARE MUTANTS COMPARED TO OTHERS) would define majority of us "mutants" anyway. I wonder if you feel they're just as neutrally 'mutant' as let say people who have red hair?

Also, you are bringing into this conversation the idea of 'your MISSION/PURPOSE/W'EVER in LIFE is your OWN PROCREATION' -kind of view. Do you think THINKING like that is genetic or a choice? As did you CHOOSE somewhere in your life, that your only (or at least one of the most important) achievement should be making more humans to make more humans?

And as just about no-one hasn't comment, I'll ask you the same qestion here again.. what do you think about LEARNING to LIKE things like beer, cheese, candies, junkfood (well, it was just declared to be very additive, a bad CHOICE/mutation), classical music or coffee? After you have LEARNED TO LIKE IT, is it still a choice every single time to LIKE it (not drinking/doing it)? Or do you think it's a MUTANT thing that some people like classical music - or at least are ABLE TO LEARN to like it?

(If you need some kind of procreation perspective, I can definitely tell you getting laid is a lot more easier in todays society if you dig pop music instead of classical.. and more likely if you like alcohol and junkfood than being a vegetarian absolutist or similar..)

To be honest it doesn't make much of a difference whether I enjoy playing piano because of my genes or because I made a choice (because of the environment/w'ever thing).. and I don't mind you calling me a pianist mutant, if your use of the word is completely neutral, as in to describe differences..?

reply to post by FeralMonkeyMagic


I am gay lol. I've known that since I was seven years old.
The whole point of that is just as you said. If you ask gays they will say, "I have always been like this." For someone to not be gay and ramble on about something they know absolutely nothing about is absurd. Just as my answering a questionnaire regarding black women.

Originally posted by toochaos4u
reply to post by FeralMonkeyMagic

 

I am gay lol. I've known that since I was seven years old.
The whole point of that is just as you said. If you ask gays they will say, "I have always been like this." For someone to not be gay and ramble on about something they know absolutely nothing about is absurd. Just as my answering a questionnaire regarding black women.

hahahaha to be honest mate, even hetero guys struggle to understand women and their motives and drives.. lol - i still dont understand my missus at times! hahaha - so id prolly be no better at answering a questionare on women than you!

ahh, it's a good experience thoough, trying to get to know people and tollerating them (in my cse, my missus loves to budget money.... I HATE IT!! hahaha)

reply to post by ModernAcademia


The problem with your assertions about homosexuality or heterosexuality being a choice is that it is founded on a basic belief installed in you by people who wasn't very well informed.

There have been - throughout history - societies that allowed homosexuality as part of their culture. If there was any choice then it was wheter to participate or not.

The only choice there is now is whether or not you want to suffer the social punishment you'd most likely have to endure if you "come out".

I'm afraid that your handle of "ModernAcademia" stand in stark contrast to the way you approach the subject at hand.

You keep on and on about homosexuality being a choice and your arguments are based on beliefs - not on any newer scientific work on the subject.

You can be sure, however, that if you'd bother to read up on history you'd find that homosexuality has been an integrated part of society as long as we remember in written and verbal history.
As someone else has mentioned before, it is unlikely that people have chosen a sexual preference that would cost them their life if discovered, as was the case when the Christian church decided to hunt them down and exterminate them.

If you read "Malleus Maleficarum" (or "The Hammer of Witches" you also find that some of the men and women who were announced to be witches and warlocks into devil worship, to be tortured and burnt were merely living a lifestyle not befitting The Church. Is it likely that this would encourage a choice to be homosexual?
(on that note: if The Church was so wrong then, is there any reason to think they are not wrong now?)

Original Post is merely based on misconceptions and fallacies and it is interesting that note that whatever is presented against these misconceptions and fallacies are quickly refuted by several posters as being wrong - "because I believe that...".

Belief based on . . . nothing really . . . remains nothing

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
***snip***
People are not born homosexual, many homosexuals have relationships with women and only after then chosing men instead.

so we can make that decision midstream
***snip***

You are so wrong that it hurts.

Many people are born homosexuals and end up in a heterosexual marriage and some even have children.
And THEN they get the courage to say : "No. No more. I don't want to live a lie anymore."

Perhaps they are now in a job situation where they feel safe enough to come out.
Perhaps they have moved away from the people who tried to shape them into proper human being - e.g. heterosexuals.
Perhaps they just decided that enough was enough.

And by the way - you didn't choose to be heterosexual. You are what you are.

Had you been severely attracted to an opposite sex person and deeply in love and STILL stayed heterosexual THEN you can call it a choice.

Or maybe you did have that experience and it frightens you because you'd have to face facts and face the same scorn that you are helping to spread.

It is ,for lack of a better term, a BIRTH DEFECT.
I think the OP is gay.

reply to post by PilgriMage


You are missing the point.

I am not calling names, i am telling it how it is from a evolutionary perspective.

If indeed homosexual people are truly only attracted to people of the same sex and it is not a CHOICE; they are be a mutation.

It's as simple as that.

That mutation would currently be unfavorable because that said being would likely not procreate.

The mutation could prove favorable if our species heads towards hermaphroditism.

[edit on 3/31/2010 by JPhish]

RIGHT ON! I cannot agree more! That was well stated. This thread has done one thing for sure, it has let me know HOW SOME PEOPLE REALLY THINK AND FEEL AND HOW CLOSED MINDED OR IGNORANT others are. Its gotten the wolves out of the sheep's clothing.

Originally posted by PilgriMage

Originally posted by Loki Lyesmyth
reply to post by Phlynx

 

LOL sorry but Bisexual is kinda a choice, I can choose to be with a man or a woman, I am 90% straight so I choose women, but still think Brian Molko from Placebo is a hot guy,
Whooa-ooooohhh. caught in bad BROMANCE... La.. la ..la la la..."

Of course everyone has a RIGHT to THINK as they do.. but I would still say that has nothing to do with bi-sexualism being a choice - any more than heterosexualism or homosexualism is..

Yes.. as a bisexual man you can CHOOSE to have sex only with women. But if you do like men also, it doesn't make you any less or more straight (nor bisexual).. even a straight man can CHOOSE to have sex with another man.. either for money, for an interesting experience, for religious reasons (occultist rituals), or if he is just forced to do it in some means. (Either do it or die.. and he CHOOSES to do it..) .. or w'ever else reason.

So as long as we talk about actual feelings, it's not a choice really. YOu could argue that for example you can LEARN to like blue cheese (as mos ppl do, rare like it the first time) or beer.. but after you have LEARNED to like it, is it always a CHOICE to like it after that? If you REALLY WISH TO HAVE A COLD BEER - or a sandwich with a blue cheese on it - do you like it because you have learned to like it, or because you have genes which makes it able for you to (learn) to like it?

In the end it really does come to the point, what an earth does it matter. Eating blue cheese or drinking (modest amount) of beer doesn't hurt anyone and should be everyones personal choice. A straight man with too much beer can be as much an asshole as a guy gay with or without beer.. so..

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Gwynniver
You haven answered my question: did you chose to be heterosexual or whatever you are?

Yes I did chose to be hetero!
People are not born homosexual, many homosexuals have relationships with women and only after then chosing men instead.

so we can make that decision midstream

I chose and continue to chose to be hetero.

Originally posted by Gwynniver
Because there are people here who disagree with you, you think discussing homosexuality is taboo? There's nothing taboo about discussing sex or sexuality. I just don't agree with you.

Then me saying you wanting to be taboo was not directed towards you.
I think my post was self-explanatory, it was directed at those saying "what's it to you" and those that are opposed to this thread existing.

I'm fairly sure I was clear on that in my post.

My God! Sometimes im ashamed to be a human being, with so many hateful,close minded people.

You did not chose to be straight! you are straight, you just know.

The reason why a gay man will first have relationships with women is quite obvious, dont you think. My brother had a few relationships with girls when he was younger because no one knew he was gay. His family did not now, his friends did not know, and he wanted to fit into the "normal" way of life. It made him unhappy to the point where he was suicidal. There are many reasons why gay men do this, butpeople like you choose not to see it!

The sad thing is, you will nevr change the opinions of people like you, not as long as there is hate in the world.

I see where you are coming from, but personally I don't agree with your words of choice. There is a difference in making a conscious choice and a subconcious one. We don't even know if the subconcious can make a "choice", this is something left to the ego. If the "choice" is derived from the subconcious; we as humans have no way to know this. maybe the "choices" in the subconcious are ingrained, but this supports the whole nature thing anyway. I don't think it can be denied that some people make concious choices based on their upbringing and social environment, but this still doesn't come close to explaining the emotion behind it, or why that emotion occured in the first place( Psychic conflict caused by suppression?). AS for the mutant thing, I'm not sure that different chemical reactions constitute being a mutant; then we are all mutants, which maybe we are and you are right. For now though we are all limited by our inferior human perception.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Jezus
I’m not going to get into an argument of semantics with you.

you are not arguing with me
you are arguing with the dictionary

se·man·tics
   /sɪˈmæntɪks/ Show Spelled[si-man-tiks] Show IPA
–noun(used with a singular verb)
1. Linguistics.
a. the study of meaning.
b. the study of linguistic development by classifying and examining changes in meaning and form.


I'm not gay but I obviously know that my heterosexuality is not a decision.

To suggest that you choose to be straight is to suggest that you could just as easily engage in homosexual behavior if you felt inclined.

If this is true…you are probably bisexual.

This seems likely because the fact remains that homophobic people are angry about being gay.

Originally posted by Jezus
Ironically a lot of people who express hate towards homosexuals are frustrated because they are confused and angered by their own suppressed homosexual urges.

Top Five Republican Gay Sex Scandals
www.badmouth.net...

If you are full of hate for homosexuals, the evidence suggests you have a psychological problem, based on denying part of yourself.
www.huffingtonpost.com...

Prof. Adams says his research shows that most homophobes "demonstrate significant sexual arousal to homosexual erotic stimuli", suggesting that homophobia is a form of "latent homosexuality where persons are either unaware of or deny their homosexual urges".
www.ipce.info...

In this clip, from the HBO documentary Middle Sexes: Redefining He and She, narrator Gore Vidal discusses a 1996 study on homophobia, which revealed that homophobic males were aroused by gay porn, while non-homophobes were not.
findingthefilth.blogspot.com...

Latham, who has spoken out against homosexuality, asked the officer to join him in his hotel room for oral sex
www.surfingtheapocalypse.net...

For those who have not yet heard of Outrage, it's a documentary by Kirby Dick about closeted Republican hypocrites and the way their hypocrisy damages lives — not only their personal lives but the millions of gays and lesbians their homophobic policymaking affects.
www.towleroad.com...

Homophobes Love Gay Porn
www.feastoffun.com...

Originally posted by Armin
Today, there are a great number of people convinced that being gay is not a choice. People are gay because they want to be gay. I don't understand why straight people, defend them by saying it's not a choice, you try to defend them by comparing them to animals which you guys claim are "gay". All your are doing is choosing to go against God's revelation and teaching's. For myself, God's opinion matters more to me than any person that would try to tell me and convince me that homosexuality is not a choice. So, I also don't care what your respondes are to my comment, the Qur'an and the old scriptures teach me to warn people that if they commit in homosexual behavior, then they will be dealt by God when their day comes. Have a nice day and remain blessed everybody.

Deuteronomy 22:13) ''If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

I LOVE the bible... So many choice quotes to cherry pick from...

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

and my fave:

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

It is the OP 's choice to discuss this in an open discussion without people coming on here and say they are offened, i mean grow up abit.

There is way to much PC correctness these days and this board should not be caught up in that rubbish.

Homosexuality a choice, yeah i think it is, my x's bro is gay, he was getting married but told her he likes guys.

It wasnt passed down from the father, he is old school and extremly straight laced, it is his choice to love a man just as its my choice to love a woman.

I find some men attractive, i respect a fella with an amazing body, does that make me gay, nope, just admiring from a distance, i wouldnt actually do anything with a guy, im not sexualy attracted.

In any case it doesnt bother me what gay men or women do but its worthy of a discussion without getting flamed by people who are extremly easily offened.

Originally posted by packinhit
It is the OP 's choice to discuss this in an open discussion without people coming on here and say they are offened, i mean grow up abit.

There is way to much PC correctness these days and this board should not be caught up in that rubbish.

Homosexuality a choice, yeah i think it is, my x's bro is gay, he was getting married but told her he likes guys.

It wasnt passed down from the father, he is old school and extremly straight laced, it is his choice to love a man just as its my choice to love a woman.

I find some men attractive, i respect a fella with an amazing body, does that make me gay, nope, just admiring from a distance, i wouldnt actually do anything with a guy, im not sexualy attracted.

In any case it doesnt bother me what gay men or women do but its worthy of a discussion without getting flamed by people who are extremly easily offened.

When you have people saying that gay people are mutants, then you can understand why spme people are getting angry. Remember, there are Gay people on this board. And, you did not choose to be straight, i did not choose to be straight. I did not wake up one day and thought to myself "hey,im gonna be straight"

did my post sound narky ?

ok yeah i see your point, i do, i dont think anyone has the true answer to the question of what makes you gay.

Choice of words like mutant and deformed are the wrong type of words as theres nothing wrong with being gay, to me its a choice to be that way, sure you dont wake up one day and say " gee its a nice day, what shall i do, i know lets be a gay today" but to me it has to be a choice rather then from birth, if its from birth then people would label it a birth defect.

I know there are gays on this board and i hope they dont get offended but apart from the mutant comments, why would they.

To me the toughest part of being gay is coming out, everything else you deal with, peoples comments are one of them.

Anyhoo i have no idea about being gay, i dont know why im not gay and my mate is but im not bothered by it at all

Originally posted by packinhit
did my post sound narky ?

ok yeah i see your point, i do, i dont think anyone has the true answer to the question of what makes you gay.

Choice of words like mutant and deformed are the wrong type of words as theres nothing wrong with being gay, to me its a choice to be that way, sure you dont wake up one day and say " gee its a nice day, what shall i do, i know lets be a gay today" but to me it has to be a choice rather then from birth, if its from birth then people would label it a birth defect.

I know there are gays on this board and i hope they dont get offended but apart from the mutant comments, why would they.

To me the toughest part of being gay is coming out, everything else you deal with, peoples comments are one of them.

Anyhoo i have no idea about being gay, i dont know why im not gay and my mate is but im not bothered by it at all

Well, im not gay, but my brother and sister are, and a few on my mums side of the family, and thats why i believe its in the genes. So, all the gays who have come out and lost there family and friends, they "chose" that did they?

My brother lost most of his friends, had to move to another town, alone and depressed, did he "choose" that?

This is why it annoys gay people reading posts like yours. They know they did not chose to be gay, its just who they are, but you always get ignorant people, thats life. And even if we do find the gay gene, the same old people will find there way around it and make up some other crap that gay people choose to be gay.

[edit on 31-3-2010 by Jay-morris]

All I can do is recite the story of a friend who was raised from an early age to believe that homosexuality was immoral and a sin. As he grew up, he also discovered that he was gay.

Now he struggles daily with self-loathing and the belief that he will go to hell. Why? Because he truly believes that homosexuality is wrong, a form of evil, and a sin against his god, but cannot stop himself from feeling the same feelings, urges, and longings that heterosexual men feel for women, but for men instead.

He never chose to be gay. He tries daily not to be. He HATES himself and everything about who and what he is because of it.

So unless someone can prove to me that he's lying or suffering from some complex form of delusion, my only logical conclusion can be that homosexuality is not a choice for him.

Here are my questions, though: Why does anyone care whether homosexuality is or isn't a choice, and why does this man have to go through life hating who and what he is?

People have different ways of handling something that is different than what they know. Some fear the difference, some find it curious, some don't care either way.

It's only the people who fear it that end up demonizing it. They let that fear control them because they don't understand this alien behavior. If only they could master their fear so that it wouldn't rule over their lives and others by proxy.

How is it wrong to love your fellow man or woman, regardless of their differences. As long as they're not harming anyone, why not just let them live their lives as they will? If you say that it's harming your children that you have to explain why John has a husband or why Mary has a wife, you'll have to go into some details. Explain the harm. If the harm is that it goes against your values, then maybe your values aren't strong enough to stand on their own and there might be a flaw if you have to crush other people's values to solidify yours?

You don't have to agree with it, to allow it to continue. Voice your disagreement and move on...

reply to post by Jay-morris


If its in the genes and it skipped your genes then what can it be ?
The XY chromosone missing in a gene ?

I really dont know, if i did ill be a rich and hated man, my bro is bisexual yet im the more feminie of the brothers and i like women.

The bro says that he just likes guys and girls, he can choose which ever one he wants, best of both worlds i guess.

Maybe its not choice after birth ,maybe your are born like it, i dont know.

all i do know is my freedom to speak, i dont dislike gays and just because i have my views doesnt make me a homophobe at all

A lot of spirtual teaching says that you choose your life before birth, you choose your parents etc maybe your choice your lifes lessons as well.