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Homosexuality is a choice and nothing else!

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posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 04:26 AM
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Let me start by saying that I had a very good childhood. Both parents where there growing up, and both did a wonderful job of raising me. My father never hit me, my mother never babied me. They where the ideal parents. I'm 19 now, but I've known I was different than the other boys since i was 7-8. As soon as I hit puberty, I noticed that I wasn't as interested in girls as the other guys were, in fact... I realized I was only attracted to men. Despite what many may believe, not every homosexual handles this discovery with grace and dignity. I spent years trying to deny it, to change it. I dated girls, kissed girls, all in an attempt to try to fit in. I went through hell in school because of it. I almost failed phys ed because i couldn't go into the locker room with the other guys without being terrified. When high school came around, I finally made the only choice there was to make. I decided to accept my true feelings for what they were, and stop living a lie.

THE ONLY CHOICE IN THE MATTER WAS WHETHER OR NOT I WANTED TO LIVE A MISERABLE LIE MY ENTIRE LIFE OR TO LIVE OPENLY AS I WAS.

Now, as you can imagine, my coming out of the closet in highschool to my closest friends (which of course ended up in the whole school knowing), caused a lot of grief. I'd say almost 90% of my "friends" turned their backs on me in less than a week. Teachers started acting differently, parents kept what friends i had left from hanging out with me, not to mention the solid 2-3 months where my father wouldn't even look at me. And the sad thing is, I had it easy! There are so many homosexuals out there who have it 100x harder simply because of who they love. The point i'm trying to make is if being gay was as simple as a choice, why would anyone choose it? High school is hard enough, why would any teenager willingly make it that much harder on themselves? Do you think we like being constantly harassed by bigots and bible-thumpers? Do you think we like having to try to explain over and over again how we have had no choice in the matter, only to have the same old tired argument from the same closed-minded people repeatedly thrown at us? No, I highly doubt anyone does.

The simple fact is, you DON'T know. You being a heterosexual means that you have no clue about whether or not someone chooses to be gay. Let me say it like this... Who would be more likely to know if homosexuality is a choice? A heterosexual or a homosexual?

If homosexuality is a choice then heterosexuality MUST be one as well, so ask yourself; when did you choose to be straight? If it's as simple as a choice, you should be able to remember exactly what age you where when you decided. Do you think someone wakes up one morning and tell themselves, "Hmmm.... You know what? My life is too happy. I think i'm going to shake things up a bit and start dating the same sex." Just because there isn't scientific proof that says it's not a choice, does not mean that it is. By that logic, there isn't a god because there is no scientific proof to conclusively prove his(or hers, for all i know) existence.

Bottom line is, WHY DO YOU CARE? How does my being gay affect you in any way? It's not contagious, it's not harmful. Just like heterosexuality, being gay has nothing to do with anyone but the persons involved in the relationship. I'm sorry that there are those of you who are disgusted by it, but that's not my problem nor is it my fault. It's nothing more than your own personal opinion that for some reason you feel is the most important opinion in the world.

And please, save us both some time and don't quote any bible passages or anything like that, because using religion as a basis for this topic is nothing more than irrelevant. Not everyone reads the same story as you do, and pretty much everyone picks and chooses which part of their religion they can use for their own personal benefit.

Love Is Blind.

Adieu




posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 04:36 AM
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reply to post by guillotinegleam
 


I am so sorry you had all that crap to go through - we all do, in our different ways, but I have to congratulate you that at your young age you have accepted yourself as you are.

I wish you the best life.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 04:38 AM
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Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by guillotinegleam
 


I am so sorry you had all that crap to go through - we all do, in our different ways, but I have to congratulate you that at your young age you have accepted yourself as you are.

I wish you the best life.


Thank you friend, and may you live as happily as possible.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 04:42 AM
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I think the only choice you have is if you are a practicing one or not. If your not interested in females as a male, and interested in males, thats the way it is.

I am glad to not be interested in females, not sure how others fell though.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 04:52 AM
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reply to post by andy1033
 


To every homosexual out there, and to all other people who are made to feel guilty by other people.

Do not feel guilty.

The world is here to enjoy, so enjoy it.

Ignore preaching people, just try and have a nice life and I repeat, as I always repeat in the name of Jesus, because He is the name of gentleness, love, tolerance and forgiveness - and I know a lot of you will cringe when I bring Jesus into it - what I am trying to tell you is that people are judgemental, churches are judgemental, parents are judgemental.

Jesus is the only person who values you as a person.

So, as long as you are kind to the world, you will be fine.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 05:11 AM
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Originally posted by Legion2112
After seeing this thread unfold I think my earlier post was a bit misplaced. I thought (apparently I didn't examine thoroughly enough) that this thread was a nature vs. nurture argument, free choice vs. genetic predisposition. Beginning to get the impression that this is a religious gaybashing thread instituted by those who've wrestled with their own sexuality and now suddenly have seen the "light." No one is going to see the others POV, and since I refuse to get drawn into a debate where posters are using a religion whose hierarchy makes a practice of protecting priestly pedophiles to bash another for what they see as unnatural, I'm out.

Peace.


Hahahaahah You and me both. The thread is now the same old same old religious gaybashing dislike fest. I wouldn't call it a hate fest as people are being polite.

I don't want to leave this arguement by not participating but I will prepare a few comments for nextweek's new OP on this same old subject.

One of the Xtians wanted toknow about the reference to jesus and homosexuality. I think Morton Smith wrote a book on the book of Timothy which is part of the apocrypha.

Be nice to your local gays get to know those of good character. When TSHTF you may be in the resistance/militia/revolution together

Anyway chums same time and place next week??


[edit on 30-3-2010 by Tiger5]



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 05:17 AM
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reply to post by Tiger5
 


Excuse me?

I have supported both gays and Jesus here, but NOT religion.

I will happily discuss anything with you.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 05:20 AM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 

So tell me, did you choose to be hetero sexual? Or bi sexual? Or whatever you are?

And even IF homesexuality would be a choice, what's it to you?

I personally believe there's nothing wrong with homesexuality and I do not believe it is a choice. I'm a heterosexual but I didn't wake up one morning thinking: You know what, I think I'll just be having sex with guys in this lifetime. I am like that. Period. It's not a choice. And who cares anyway?
When two adults have consentual sex, there is nothing wrong with that, sex is great.


[edit on 30-3-2010 by Gwynniver]



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 05:21 AM
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In the words of Michael Franti :
"It's not about who you love
It's about do you love"

I read through some of the posts, but admittedly not all 20+ pages.

My two yuan's worth: regarding nature/nurture as the OP mentions. I knew someone in China when I lived there who had come to the city from a village and he was openly gay, and had many "stereotypical" mannerisms and affections. Others knew he was "different" but accepted him.

As he was from a remote area, there was no way - no electricity or tv to show him, that he had "learned" to be gay. In my opinion it was inherent, and not an act. He had not learned (or been conditioned) how to behave as he did, it came naturally.

So I come down on the side of nature.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 05:22 AM
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reply to post by catwhoknows
 


Or are you so prejudiced that you have your own agenda?



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by ZombieOctopus

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
There is so much data out there, some saying it is a choice some saying not, there is both so now what.


There's real scientific literature to explain homosexuality as a biological reality, and then there's people who don't bother to read anything that doesn't agree with their existing world view who say it's a choice. I kind of expected more from you to be honest MA.

Can you produce even one published scientific paper, coming from a formal, respected journal in the last lets say 5 years, not written by Doctors Christington and Republitard, which comes to the conclusion that you chose to be either heterosexual or homosexual? Because I think you're showing a terrible personal bias not backed up by anything but prejudice and misinformation.



You are very close to the point made inadvertantly by OP.

Some peoples attitude toward gaydom (!?) is in direct violation of what they were told to believe - either by parents, friends, peers, church etc.

The gaydom does not conform to the idea of Intelligent Design, Higher Being Creator or any orther of that type.
How can a Higher Creator create something which they percieve is flawed?

In the Bible Man is given free choice which is the root of all evil - hence the thought of Gaydom being a choice.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 08:41 AM
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There are no choices when it comes to the nature of things, the only choices you have is in expression of your self and living on your terms for your lifetime depending on your wants, needs, and Life's Circumstances. A lot of our problems comes from our nature and the path that life demands, that we evolve or die, there are no choices in this. Who here thinks that if humans survive the next million years that there will be such a thing as males and females, then you have no clue to the nature of the present or past, everything is conditioning, live your live and try not to judge others because one day everybody's time will come. All you have to do is look around to see that nature does not see humanity anymore then it sees all other type of animal or plant or idea, it's all steps to change to build itself in to the heavens, humans are mearly the newest step to step on in its path. A means to an end, and a new beginning. If you think that you are the first or that raging against the planet or that this species is somehow eternal, you will have a rude awakening, because your not the first or the billionth of the first billionth.

I am a hetero male and I dont expect my kind to last forever anymore then any other thing in existence. Therefore I dont care if your gay or go both ways or go all ways or if you chose to be one way or another. It's your life. but I am speaking for myself and none other.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by Loki Lyesmyth
reply to post by Phlynx
 


LOL sorry but Bisexual is kinda a choice, I can choose to be with a man or a woman, I am 90% straight so I choose women, but still think Brian Molko from Placebo is a hot guy,
Whooa-ooooohhh. caught in bad BROMANCE... La.. la ..la la la..."



Of course everyone has a RIGHT to THINK as they do.. but I would still say that has nothing to do with bi-sexualism being a choice - any more than heterosexualism or homosexualism is..

Yes.. as a bisexual man you can CHOOSE to have sex only with women. But if you do like men also, it doesn't make you any less or more straight (nor bisexual).. even a straight man can CHOOSE to have sex with another man.. either for money, for an interesting experience, for religious reasons (occultist rituals), or if he is just forced to do it in some means. (Either do it or die.. and he CHOOSES to do it..) .. or w'ever else reason.

So as long as we talk about actual feelings, it's not a choice really. YOu could argue that for example you can LEARN to like blue cheese (as mos ppl do, rare like it the first time) or beer.. but after you have LEARNED to like it, is it always a CHOICE to like it after that? If you REALLY WISH TO HAVE A COLD BEER - or a sandwich with a blue cheese on it - do you like it because you have learned to like it, or because you have genes which makes it able for you to (learn) to like it?

In the end it really does come to the point, what an earth does it matter. Eating blue cheese or drinking (modest amount) of beer doesn't hurt anyone and should be everyones personal choice. A straight man with too much beer can be as much an asshole as a guy gay with or without beer.. so..



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 09:53 AM
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I'd like for all the opposers to answer this:

Incase we cannot act getting a boner over something, how would it be a conscious choice in ones mind to get a boner for looking at something?

Could one choose, to get a boner over looking at wood barrels?

Could one choose, to get a boner over watching a horse?

C'mon, the author and all of you are smarter than this - it is not a choice, it is something deep within these gay minded peoples soul - that they feel, that is of god and is one of the forms of love we as humans can experience.

Now - acting, and choosing not to feel, is something Christian people do, and while they want to spread that agony to others, they are also preventing many souls from feeling what is natural to them - denying their feelings, and therefor denying the language of their soul - which BTW they would have to follow, in order to make choises as souls that could be ever "rated" as good or bad.

Many Christians don't see the paradox of preventing a way of feeling by a set of rules, in order for the soul to make a conscious choice over something.

That is utterly stupid - and the Bible is just a giant hoax and a mind manipulation tool..

We, as souls having a human body - understand any set of circumstance, as they are, only, and the best, by feeling..

..therefor, preventing an experience of something, that would guarantee the understanding (at a soul level) on the subject that is supposed to be chosen on, is the same as preventing the souls free will..

..because free will, requires, as does free choice - that is not dictated by someone outside in theory, if it is to be free - an understanding on the subject that is been chosen on!

So, saying it is bad to be homosexual, can actually come only from such persons mouth who is not able to make their own coices as souls (ie. are hippocrate and according to their own set of rules - because they haven't made their choices themselves, but have instead allowed a set of moral codes guide their souls path, whilst telling others how to swallow their feelings, - burn in hell).

Saying it is bad to be homosexual, or that it would lead to hell, would also come from such a person, who has not allowed themselves to explore the world they live in (as a soul, to gather experience, which is at the deepest soul level, the knowledge, that makes free will, and a conscious choice for a souls possible), due to the mind manipulation of the Bible, and the mass hysteria in their churches.

They have abandoned their own feelings, and are telling others they should do so too, because there is such an horror image of the alternate afterlife they are fearing they themselves might experience, unless they filtered just abit more feelings.

Don't you bible preachers see, that this is the most harm you can do to your fellow souls?

Ask yourselves, if devils words were inserted into the bible, how would you spot them..

..how would you prevent yourself from blindly believing those devils words, (and how would your favourite preach either prevent themselves of preaching the devils words to you,) straight from the bible.. unprocessed, never altered, unchanged - [..how would you, as a true believer in all that is written in the bible prevent yourself from sharing that message..] just as the one who wrote bible, (and inserted those thoughtpatters in there) had inteded??

How would you spot the devils words in the bible, if you were a true believer?

Would it not actually be the best idea for devil to print something as or betweed the gods words, and then tell everyone that should be swallowed as a truth..??

That would really sort the weeds out (at the heavenly gates)..

This has all got to do with free will, and wheter it is a conscious choice to be gay or not.

If you believe in free choice..

..you must believe in having no rules to too



[edit on 30-3-2010 by Jussi]



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 10:49 AM
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Not for nothing, but I kind of think that homosexuality is not a choice.

I feel sure about that because I believe you have to ask yourself... if it was a choice - with all the discrimation against them, do you really think the entire gay population would really choose to live a life filled with such a hatred towards them.

I believe that they are just not attracted to their opposite sex. This isn't new... it's been forever. You just didn't know who actually was years and years ago because they were more scared to come out than people are today. Why? Look at what non-gays do to them - the hurt and pain with words, the violence, the murders. Who would really choose to live a life with all of that against them if you could just choose another way?????? Perhaps some people would like living like that, I'm sure... but certainly not the entire gay population.

What is the real difference who one loves or who is loving one back? What real concern is it of another????? I can't understand it?

If 'you' as a hetero-sexual individual did not feel what you feel towards that special person in your life - be that 'in love with feelings, sexual feelings, giddy feelings, happy feelings - would you stay? 'Most' wouldn't... you'd move on. BUT... what IF you never had those feelings towards the opposite sex, but you did feel 'something' with someone of the same sex?????? You'd be with them! You just probably wouldn't tell a sole and threaten their life if they told anyone.

One thing I wish everyone would learn already... "feelings" just are. YOU can't change them, you can't hide them and you most certainly cannot avoid them.

Now if everyone can just "do unto others as they would want done to themselves" and "accept the things we cannot change"... this world would be a little better off.

That's my two-cents.


[edit on 30-3-2010 by whatacountry09]



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 11:37 AM
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Listen everyone, please I request you to stay on topic

I really wanted to participate more in this thread but almost every page has a "whether it's a choice or not what's it to you"

That's just so stupid, you could apply that question to what... 95% of all threads on ATS perhaps? 95% of all debates on this planet?

Homosexuals are human beings, I am also a human being
we are the same specie, I like to discuss about relevant topics

I like to discuss the lifestyle of mayans, sumerians, inuits, I like reading about dinosaurs and how cavemen started using fire and how cave writings came about. I like discussing many different issues that relevant to my specie and even sometimes that is not relevant to my specie but is perhaps about underwater creatures, or aliens or whatever!

It's amazing how many people in this thread said what's it to you.
What's anything to me then?
What's it to me that there's all these sanctions on Iran?
What's it to you that China is oppressing it's people?
What's it to you that Russia has a huge reserve of freshwater supply?

If you've ever made a thread on ATS or even sparked a discussion about anything... what was that to you?

You will often find me making threads or posting in threads that have to do with religion, cult beliefs, homosexuality, and such things.
What's it to you?
That's me, that's what I enjoy discussing, so what? what's it to you?

You want people to accept homosexuality while keeping discussions about it taboo? Ya good luck with that!

Some of you people are shooting yourselves in the foot with that type of logic.

Please stay on topic.

And to all those that say "what's it to you", please feel free to make another thread about "what's it to you", V2V me the link and I will gladly participate on defend the creation of this thread and my continued interest in discussing such topics. But i'll do that in THAT thread because in THAT thread me defending such a stance will not be off-topic.

Thank You!



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 01:17 PM
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like to discuss the lifestyle of mayans, sumerians, inuits,

Then perhaps, from your point of view, homosexuality is also a lifestyle? After all, you consider it to be a choice, right?
You haven answered my question: did you chose to be heterosexual or whatever you are?




You want people to accept homosexuality while keeping discussions about it taboo?

Because there are people here who disagree with you, you think discussing homosexuality is taboo? There's nothing taboo about discussing sex or sexuality. I just don't agree with you.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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The problem with the statement that the gay gene should have vanished through natural selection is one of dominant versus recessive genes. Gg so to speak. Any recessive genes held by a parent do not manifest themselves within that parent. However if that parent should breed with another parent that also has the recessive "g" then there is a one in four change that the gene expression of the offspring would be gg. A gg expression would be the genetic point of homosexuality. Some of you may think I am being foolish with this valid scientific expression so I will point out other examples. Parents often will have children with hair and or eye coloring different from either parents. Red hair for instance is a recessive gene that could manifest itself in the offspring of two people neither of which has red hair. A personal example would be that I am 6'4 and my parents are both under 5'7. My grandfather was 6'6 on my mothers side somewhere from his genes an allele that allowed for above average growth made its way to my DNA.

Now as for their being some sort of psychological route to homosexuality I will again site myself as example. My parents have been married for 43 years and are very happy together. Neither of my parent's drink or engage in other nefarious behaviors. I have an older brother and neither of us suffered abuse at the hands of our parents nor did we suffer neglect. Quite the contrary we never wanted for the needs of life and we're even indulged on occasion with a pony and a horse. My father and I have a close father/son relationship. As a child I accompanied him on hunting and fishing trips, he was the troop leader of my boy scout troop, and he attended all of my school functions with my mother. My mother is a loving dedicated woman whom has never left my brother or myself wanting for attention; nor has she ever caused us to feel "smothered." I was not beaten as a child. I was disciplined for wrong doings and such, but never beaten. I nor my brother have suffered any sort of molestation or sexual abuse in any form. Overall I had an ideal childhood and would not change a thing about it.

Now that the necessary background information has been provided I shall reveal what most of you have surmised by now. I am homosexual. My brother is heterosexual. Nothing inside me woke up one morning and decided to be gay. I know with all the certainty of any man that I am homosexual by design not by choice. I welcome responses or questions.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 01:44 PM
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Nothing inside me woke up one morning and decided to be gay. I know with all the certainty of any man that I am homosexual by design not by choice.

I completely agree with you.



posted on Mar, 30 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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Being a complete Jerk with ridiculous assertions that are unfounded is a choice.



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