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Homosexuality is a choice and nothing else!

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posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by glitchinthematrix
 

Mmm, maybe your "gaydar" is correct. But, there are straight people who come across gay (and vice-versa). I don't mean to question your judgement on people I've never met.
It just leads me to think: babies are mostly born male and female, however, masculinity and femininity are constructed and learnt. Not all women are feminine, and that includes many straight as well as gay women.
As one could see in Cater Semenya case in South Africa, some women also have internal testes that give them varying male attributes, but does not affect their hetero attractions. There are even transgender straight men who become "lesbians", and these men are very feminine.
In science it is still unclear whether lesbianism and male homosexuality are caused by the same mechanism.
In any case, from what I've read through the years, the incidence of familial homosexuality amongst cousins has been noted and a predisposing gene (or combinations) may move that way.




posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 08:10 PM
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So...if 9% of the adult human population on the planet on average consider themselves to be 'homosexual' and 25% of the adult human population consider themselves to be "bi-sexual" in some way or another, and 66% of the adult human population on the planet consider themselves to be "heterosexual'

AND

9% of the adult human population on the planet on average consider themselves to be LEFT HANDED and 25% of the adult human population consider themselves to be AMBIDEXTEROUS (with a slight preference for one or the other hand), and 66% of the adult human population on the planet consider themselves to be RIGHT HANDED


THEN.....

Do we call LEFT HANDED people 'abnormal', 'queer', or tell them that they 'need to see a psychiatrist and get fixed', ?

Or do we put social restrictions on them, e.g. they are not allowedd to 'use their LEFT in public' in front of easily influenced children, or being 'open their LEFT HANDED-NESS' without some fundy screaming 'SHE'S USING HER LEFT HAND, IT'S THE DEVIL's WORK, she's AN ABOMINATION, LEFT IS EVIL !'

Do we tell them that their LEFT-HANDEDNESS is 'curable'? 'socially unacceptable?' 'not discussed in polite society'? Tell them that it is A CHOICE and NOT GENETICALLY INFLUENCED in some way, or that it IS THEIR PARENT'S FAULT for NOT TEACHING THEM HOW TO ACT NORMAL?'

What do we do with all the AMBIDEXTEROUS people? Do we tell them to 'RIGHT IT UP and FLY RIGHT' ? Tell them that they need to make up their mind and EITHER use the RIGHT hand or NO hands?

Do we TELL LEFTIES that God will punish them for being SOUTH PAWS - e.g. telling Ruth Bader Ginsberg of the Supreme Court that G-d gave her cancer because she's LEFT HANDED and therefore AGAINST CREATION?

IS LEFT HANDEDNESS 'NATURE' or 'NURTURE', when some of our most famous actors, or some of our very greatest leaders and creative geniuses happen to have been 'ABNORMAL' LEFT HANDED persons?

What should SOCIETY HAVE TOLD ALL these 'ABNORMAL PEOPLE' (listed below) WHAT HAND TO USE WITH THEIR OWN BODIES?

SHOULD SOCIETY HAVE ALLOWED THEM TO GET 'LEGALLY MARRIED' and ENJOY THE RIGHTS of 'RIGHT HANDED / NORMAL PEOPLE 'IN SOCIETY?

Benjamin Franklin, Leonardo da Vinci, H.G. Wells, Alexander the Great, Rafaelo Sanzi (=Raphael), Lewis Carroll, Albrecht Durer, Greta Garbo, Marylin Monroe (born:Norma-Jean Baker), Angelina Jolie, Charlemagne ('Charles the Great'), Helen Keller, M.C. Escher, Judy Garland (born: Frances Gumm), Oscar de la Hoya, King Louis XIV, Martina Navratilova, Paul McCartney, David Rockefeller, Danny Kaye, Carey Grant, Queen Victoria, Henry Ford, Jay Leno, Bill Clinton, Vin Skully, Clarence Darrow, Ronald Reagan, Barak Obama, Steve Forbes, Jimi Hendrix, Matt Groeneg ('The Simpsons' creator), Dan Ackroyd, Gayle Sayers, Betty Grable, June Allyson, Edward R Murrow, Uri Geller, Diane Keaton, Michael Landon (born: Uggie Orowicz), Tony Perkins, Ryan O'Neill, Lenny Bruce, Emma Thompson, Bruce Jenner, Ross Perot, John ('I lie under oath for my Country') McCain, Joan of Arc, Roibert deNiro, Olivia de Havilland, Napoleon Bonaparte, Charlie Chaplin, Carol Burnett, Prince Charles (of England), Rudy Vallee, Fidel Castro, James Baldwin, Benyamin Netanyahu, Isaac Hayes, goldie Hahn, Rex Harrison, Phil Collins from Genesis, Barry Bonds or Fernando Valenzuela?



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 08:37 PM
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you think sexuality is a choice, then you are bisexual.

If you are truly straight, or truly gay, there is no choice at all. Only bisexual people feel it is a choice, because they actually have an attraction to both sexes.

There is nothing wrong with bisexuality, but I find it funny that so many "god fearing" "bible thumping" "patriots" who proclaim that homosexuals are evil and bad ALSO BELIEVE that sexuality is a choice, because those "straight" people don't even realize they themselves are bisexual.

Me? Straight as an arrow, LOVE and worship the female form. Feel nothing sexual for men what-so-ever. It's not a choice, for me.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by Darth Logan
reply to post by PilgriMage
 


Well, for starters I would never compare animal behaivor to humans. It is poor science to "read" human motivations and sentiments into animal behavior.
The post that I responded to which was not your post, also failed to answer the OP's question. Funny how you scrutinize my post......... Makes sense.

I think the primary causes of homosexual behavior are environmental and personal choice. I don't think your going to find a "gay" gene. But I would agree that there are other biological influences that may indeed influence some people toward homosexuality.


Could you define a bit more, what you mean by environmental choice (factor)? You mean like society/family etc.. and would those biological influences be something like hormone affecting chemicals etc?



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 09:27 PM
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reply to post by FeralMonkeyMagic
 


My point with my example is that anyone can do anything if they put their mind to it. Some people have been doing that for thousands of years. Some were monastic or ascetic and some were not.


and that these people can/would willingly give up their natural sexual orientation by choice


I'm saying people can and can even give up all sexual orientation. One of the most important things here is confidence. If you don't believe you can do it, regardless of what it is, you have created a major obastacle for yourself.


demonstrate that power and use it to override any/everything about yourself - what does that mean?


That is somewhat esoteric in nature. Where the person becomes tabula rasa and leads to a new human. This new human is somewhat like the ubermensch. Its ultimately about potential.


i pose the argument that anyone who is straight or gay or bi, whatever - would not see a need to change their sexual preference, why would they, they dont have a problem with it themselves, it's only other people that are would "change it if they could" because they don't agree with it.


I'm not saying they need to change anything. I'm saying they can if they choose to. Personally I can see the advantages of being wholly in control of oneself, but its not something people need to do. I can see people choosing not to do it. That is their choice.


That was a fairly interesting comment you made though - assuming that i was attacking you when i was merely addressing things i saw as either overt - strong minded or "trying to be" military" hardcore dude (shows with your avatar and camo decorations - assumptions? nooo ), that if had the power , he would exercise dominance over all aspects of everything and everything.


The US military has a broad range of beliefs and backgrounds. Not all of us are megalomaniacs. There isn't any problem though in exercising dominance over all aspects of your personal life.


Because this essentially is something i am observing that you believe to be a "fix" to a "problem".


You don't think it would be easier to be in control of oneself? I'm not saying being natural is a problem, but a limititation. I'm saying you shed those things and you can reach your ultimate potential. You don't have to of course. If someone tries to force you, then you are ultimately not doing it. It has be the choice of the individual and that individual alone.


It's funny i heard of a monk recently found in a Thai Monastery, that had a heart attack, while having sex with a female dog. Now, that is interesting, a monk, who can meditate - died, while rooting a dog. so much for the not so esoteric knowledge of the lower ranks of monks eh?


What one monk does and fails to do, doesn't apply to another.


I dont understand why you're being sarcastic to be honest..


Where was I being sarcastic?

You made assumptions that I did not know things, looked at my avatar and ran with it. You automatically assumed that I did not accept people different than me. You assumed that I thought homosexuality was unnatural. The usage of congrats wasn't very flattering either.

I was and am being honest. That it was ok that you made assumptions. Its normal and happens on ATS all the time. I didn't blow up and resort to insults. So like I said you are forgiven.


Arent we here to swap knowledge and share information to grow other peoples knowledge? is that not the purpose of the forum.


Your language in the other post, wasn't the friendliest. Again though, thats not a problem. People can get past those things and have an intelligent and interesting debate. I have seen this on ATS many times.


Im not having a go, im just having a chat! - so don't get all aggro, it's rare to get a conversation started in an interesting topic where you get to hear other peoples opnions! i am interested to see why people would (presume) that differing sexualities are a natural occurrence, because they occur! its simple. It's nothing that needs to be changed.


I won't be going all aggro. I am happy that this discussion was able to go on without sillyness. Again I'm not saying people need to change anything, but they can if they choose to.

[edit on 27/3/10 by MikeboydUS]



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by Sigismundus
So...if 9% of the adult human population on the planet on average consider themselves to be 'homosexual' and 25% of the adult human population consider themselves to be "bi-sexual" in some way or another, and 66% of the adult human population on the planet consider themselves to be "heterosexual'

AND

9% of the adult human population on the planet on average consider themselves to be LEFT HANDED and 25% of the adult human population consider themselves to be AMBIDEXTEROUS (with a slight preference for one or the other hand), and 66% of the adult human population on the planet consider themselves to be RIGHT HANDED


THEN.....

Do we call LEFT HANDED people 'abnormal', 'queer', or tell them that they 'need to see a psychiatrist and get fixed', ?

Or do we put social restrictions on them, e.g. they are not allowedd to 'use their LEFT in public' in front of easily influenced children, or being 'open their LEFT HANDED-NESS' without some fundy screaming 'SHE'S USING HER LEFT HAND, IT'S THE DEVIL's WORK, she's AN ABOMINATION, LEFT IS EVIL !'

Do we tell them that their LEFT-HANDEDNESS is 'curable'? 'socially unacceptable?' 'not discussed in polite society'? Tell them that it is A CHOICE and NOT GENETICALLY INFLUENCED in some way, or that it IS THEIR PARENT'S FAULT for NOT TEACHING THEM HOW TO ACT NORMAL?'

What do we do with all the AMBIDEXTEROUS people? Do we tell them to 'RIGHT IT UP and FLY RIGHT' ? Tell them that they need to make up their mind and EITHER use the RIGHT hand or NO hands?

Do we TELL LEFTIES that God will punish them for being SOUTH PAWS - e.g. telling Ruth Bader Ginsberg of the Supreme Court that G-d gave her cancer because she's LEFT HANDED and therefore AGAINST CREATION?

IS LEFT HANDEDNESS 'NATURE' or 'NURTURE', when some of our most famous actors, or some of our very greatest leaders and creative geniuses happen to have been 'ABNORMAL' LEFT HANDED persons?

What should SOCIETY HAVE TOLD ALL these 'ABNORMAL PEOPLE' (listed below) WHAT HAND TO USE WITH THEIR OWN BODIES?

SHOULD SOCIETY HAVE ALLOWED THEM TO GET 'LEGALLY MARRIED' and ENJOY THE RIGHTS of 'RIGHT HANDED / NORMAL PEOPLE 'IN SOCIETY?

Benjamin Franklin, Leonardo da Vinci, H.G. Wells, Alexander the Great, Rafaelo Sanzi (=Raphael), Lewis Carroll, Albrecht Durer, Greta Garbo, Marylin Monroe (born:Norma-Jean Baker), Angelina Jolie, Charlemagne ('Charles the Great'), Helen Keller, M.C. Escher, Judy Garland (born: Frances Gumm), Oscar de la Hoya, King Louis XIV, Martina Navratilova, Paul McCartney, David Rockefeller, Danny Kaye, Carey Grant, Queen Victoria, Henry Ford, Jay Leno, Bill Clinton, Vin Skully, Clarence Darrow, Ronald Reagan, Barak Obama, Steve Forbes, Jimi Hendrix, Matt Groeneg ('The Simpsons' creator), Dan Ackroyd, Gayle Sayers, Betty Grable, June Allyson, Edward R Murrow, Uri Geller, Diane Keaton, Michael Landon (born: Uggie Orowicz), Tony Perkins, Ryan O'Neill, Lenny Bruce, Emma Thompson, Bruce Jenner, Ross Perot, John ('I lie under oath for my Country') McCain, Joan of Arc, Roibert deNiro, Olivia de Havilland, Napoleon Bonaparte, Charlie Chaplin, Carol Burnett, Prince Charles (of England), Rudy Vallee, Fidel Castro, James Baldwin, Benyamin Netanyahu, Isaac Hayes, goldie Hahn, Rex Harrison, Phil Collins from Genesis, Barry Bonds or Fernando Valenzuela?




oh it's funny. I agree. The funny part is that authority DID used to try to make people use the right hand, even hitting their left hands with rulers when they were children. Scary how intolerant people were and still are of differences.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by PilgriMage
 


To clarify what i mean by environmental factors in early developmental stages certain factors can cause a person to look at the same sex. They don't have much luck with the opposite sex. They were abused by the opposite sex. They didn't have mother or father figure so they feel they need that love from that specific gender.As well as social pressure if a guy has female tendencies they will be labeled by society making that outcome that much more likely. In truth when dealing with the mind there is no telling what could be the trigger a gender bias there could be thousands.But the best argument for not being a gene is if there was a gay gene there would have to be a straight gene.And if this were the case then that proves homosexuality is abnormal. I choose to believe that as humans were better then just the sum total of are genes were much more complicated.

Now for the choice we have free will we can choose what and how we behave if someone who is gay truly believes it is wrong they wont do it.This is how you here stories of people being cured by finding religion. The feelings are there they choose to ignore them and as some claim after a while those feelings leave though i suspect this is probably wrong.Especially since this was literally hard wired into there head, Most of the connections among cells are made during infancy and childhood.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 10:19 PM
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I agree, it is a choice, just like some people remain single for the whole of there lives or whether or not couples decide to have children, it all comes down to choice. I also hate it how gay men are so much more open about there sexuality than straight men, very obvious...

On another note, gays shouldn't be able to adopt children or get married, these are the rights that have been reserved for a man and a woman. Anyone who says any differently is...



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 10:29 PM
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reply to post by harrytuttle
 

Sexuality can never be boxed, and to prove that I'm going to make boxes
. Consider that when some lesbians tested positive for HIV or got AIDS in the 1980s, it became obvious that they had slept with some of their gay friends. Sexuality can be fluid, even if the sensation and gratification are not always ideal. Some gay men and lesbians also made alliences of parentage - in this case the sex was a practical necessity. And then nominally straight people are having gay sex all the time eg. the porn industry, prisons, schools, seminaries, homosocial jobs and their close living quarters. I would not call these people "bisexual", which I find a relatively rare but true identity of its own.
I think one can start speaking of "homosexualities". There is "situational homosexuality" which most people indulge in at some stage of their lives (usually during adolescance). There is "gay for pay" or "occupational homosexuality" in the sex industry by people who are otherwise exclusively straight. There is "masculine" and "feminie" homosexuality (in several cultures only the passive "feminine" partner is considered "gay"). Then there is me - the classic homosexual or "gay".

As a public debate about sexuality at arm's length I can speak of being gay as a "choice" simply because it is a better, more inclusive argument. However it is personally not a choice for me - unless we forgo the modern idea that sex should include desire and pleasure, and is not merely a medieval duty that made everybody miserable.
Fair is fair: either everyone must go back to being unhappy and repressed, or everyone - including gay me - must have an equal chance at happiness. I deserve the public CHOICE of happiness, just as much as straight people deserve their fairly recent liberation. If we all wanted to be nuns and priests we could have made that choice to be celibate - but none of us on this thread (I think) did.
So that's why I think the OP's focus on choice has been useful, because we are all enjoying choices previous generations never had. So why single out gay people? Women had to endure all kinds of restrictions and limitations, for example. Now they can choose not to.



posted on Mar, 26 2010 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


so are we animals now



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by FeralMonkeyMagic
 


around 45-55% of males have a same sex, pseudo-sexual occurrence when they are anywhere between the age of 5-13. This is natural and due to hormones affecting the human brain and its interpretations of events and sexual stimuli. The same with women, though it is in slightly higher percentage.

Right again.


What will you wager that at least some of the people on this thread insisting that homosexuality is a choice are doing so because they remember that experience, secretly believe they're gay deep down underneath, and are so horrifies by the thought that they insist homosexuality is a choice, and that they've 'chosen' to be straight?



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:34 AM
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reply to post by dashar
 


so are we animals now

You only just got the memo?



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:42 AM
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I disagree, that: if I dont see it your way "homosexuality is a choice" then its a "mutation" thats just you, cutting out my choices. Your position, is like saying people that like a different color, or have different tastes in food than you, are mutants. your argument has no credence. I do however believe that the "sexual part" is a choice. You choose to have sex, but who you are attracted to, has to do with the chemistry in your body, sometimes outside influences, sometimes choice. There is a list of reasons, none of wich should be judged by anyone. We should love one another for who we are, not how much we are alike, but what each of us bring into this world. We are all a miraculous set of circumstances.

Love and Light, Ronco



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:48 AM
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Look buddy.

Can you or can you not make the choice to be gay or straight?

A very simple question.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 01:33 AM
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if the hormones you are exposed to in the womb determines your physical sex why wouldnt hormones your exposed to in the womb effect also your mental sex...your sex is predetermined anyway by which sperm gets to the egg x or y only the male can determine the sex genetically but the woman determines the physicality sex and mentality sex

its hormones! not choice the ones who do choose were always that way i'm sure there were signs they were either ignored or unnoitced as i'am a half brother to gay brother who i knew when he was 5 he was gonna be gay i warned the family and everyone didnt believe me now they have nothin to say!



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 01:54 AM
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Why do anyone even care? What is it about homosexuals that bother you so much?

Can you or can you not make the choice? A simple question.

If you can choose, then that makes you a bisexual.

Many ATS members and I have provided evidence and proofs over and over and over and over and over again in 1000's of threads and yet you still do not listen. Why?

Something is wrong here.

Like a poster so succinctly explained it, if you are able to choose, that makes YOU a BISEXUAL.

Do some research please buddy. Is it genetic? Is it environmental? Is it because of the family? Is it (insert your favorite biased observation)? The end result? IT'S NOT A CHOICE! It doesn't matter!


Please QUIT this BS okay?

Can you or can you not choose to be attracted to anyone?

Many posters in this thread has provided you with excellent answers. Please read them carefully. Quit dodging them or creating straw men. Read them carefully.

Please?

What the hell are you on about comparing homosexuals with murderers? Do you realize that doing so you are comparing heterosexuals with murderers as well? LOGIC FAIL.

I give up. My rant ends before it gets worse.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 03:38 AM
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As long as we have this misunderstanding about people, we will never agree.

Do you think any type of sexuality is a choice?

No, Kids mature, then they get urges.

Homosexuals are prgrammed - it is not a choice, it is what they are programed for.

Don't ask me why, because I don't know - but I know that this is definitely not a choice.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 05:07 AM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


The biological imperative is to *pardon please ahem* "stick it in the hole" or "have something stuck in the hole" respectively, that's it. The rest is psychology IMHO.

[edit on 27-3-2010 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 06:45 AM
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"You don't choose love, love chooses you". However, no matter if it's a "choice" or something explainable with a "chemical formula", so what ?
If people are having issues with gay people, they will probably not accept this lifestyle no matter what explanation they get. People should be free to choose their way of living, without having to explain and defend



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 06:54 AM
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Welcome FortAnthem and ModernAcadamenia to being the first on my foe list. Both of you have started many threads attacking groups of people and then claim you are only out to promote intelligent discussion with biggoted comments. Enough is enough and while you may be on my foe list, you are still far from being "respected" foes




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