Does Religion Deserve a Spot in Society?

I know many of us here are atheists or agnostics who consider religion as a kind of brainwash but I do want to highlight some reasons why religion does deserve a place in our society today and a few reasons of the bad effects of allowing religion to . I’m not writing this to convert you or anything but religion has definitely helped to shape our world in some good ways...and bad.

Let’s think about it. There are at least a few reasons why we should learn to respect the existence of religion. There are many of those who stood up to humanity and their actions at that time. Gandhi? Mother Teresa? Albert Schweitzer?

Without Gandhi, India would still to this date been exploited. He also helped to promote homeopathy (the use of diluted natural substances in our medication), his interest has helped to fully stimulate medical practices. Without Mother Teresa, there would be no example that leads us to help those at a disadvantage. Many of us would still consider than being crippled is a ‘sin’ and believe that they are devalued in morals. Then Albert – known to be the greatest Christian. Again, his example of implementing medical schools in Africa has influenced us greatly today.

But then again, Warren Buffett and Bill Gates, with their tremendous aid to the rest of the planet, be it for good intentions or bad which is hotly debated – nonetheless are atheists. They have helped for example, fund the mission to get rid of guinea worm. From 4 mil over 20 countries in 1986 to only 3142 cases in 4 countries. Impressive.

Religion has put a cork on slavery...in the developed areas...can’t say much about areas like India and Africa but we’re getting there, talking here especially of the African-American Civil Rights movement. There are now equal rights for woman, for gays and lesbians, due to some help from religion.

However religion was the very reason why woman and gays, lesbians did not get equal rights. Cultures in Pakistan and India used to set their woman on fire or for honour as we’ve been recently hearing. It also has the ability to make others “exterminate” their kin in genocides and religiously motivated wars. They are the reason why many people in the world today find it threatening to put a step onto the street before them.

But some religions demand respect or sometimes, one who wants respect for their religion, just wants tolerance. So then...should we respect religions such as Nazicism? Of course not. But the rights of the religious person should be respected, no matter how evil their thoughts and on – they still should be respected even if it’s a little bit. For example, obeisty – it’s been proven to be a bad thing however many choose to continue to pile themselves with food, including me....and we still respect them...I hope.

Religions should earn our respect – we cannot judge other religions without reasons or actions....there shouldn’t be hatred to all religions due to the domination of just a few.

Just want to bring up another point of this; a secular government has to treat citizens equall but a religious government does not.

In your opinion, religion may not deserve respect but the humans do. Respecting each other is the basis of society. Religion, beliefs, may not be worth respecting but people have the right to believe as they wish. Give them some slack, guys. Religion does have it weak points and people say; we need these wars to learn from “past mistakes.” But why can’t humans get it morally right for once? Why can’t they have that emotional feelings that put the barrier between war and us?

reply to post by BlackPoison94


Well yes, there is not anything bad in most religions themselves, as many of them promote love, understanding, compassion and other virtues. Also they are useful in maintaining social coherence and order.

Then totally different quesiton would be the religious people, zealots, those who interpret religious texts according to their own ends. The sects which made and still continue to make people commit most horrific deeds.

I appreciate your effort to find fair ground to the conversation considering religions. However, I must maintain that religions are really ad hoc solutions, and that humanity must evolve above them so that there wouldn't be need to any outward restrictions, but every and each individual would carry ethical code and understanding within. But when regarding current state of affairs, the state of humanity and the levels of individual development, I see that outward restrictions cannot be removed in near future.

When it comes to religions themselves, I see that they are merely infantile attempts to understand human psychology. And we have to remember, that all religions originate from humans and humans alone - hence they cannot be blamed for indiscrimination of women, homosexual or any minority, but instead we have to turn our examinating look to the human being, for religions are their creation. I would ask: That when things go wrong, would you blame the error, or the designer of the system that led into the fault?

-v

[edit on 25-3-2010 by v01i0]

As long as I live, I will never understand the whole "mine is better than yours" thought process. And I honestly think that when lots of people die and 'meet their maker' they will be quite disapointed to find out they have actually believed in the same thing. Seriously, is one really more "right" than another?

Personally I don't care if a person worships a twinkie or thinks that there is nothing at the end, or anything in between, and have always been curious about their beliefs. I am quite the nosy critter. And one never knows when one might learn something new from asking questions and actually listening.

Anywhoo.. I really liked what you had to say in your post and agree with it.

I personally view religion the same way I view underwear. Many people have em, often its right below the surface, but you dont strut around in public with it...its to be shown to people whom are close in private places.

If you insist on walking out in public showing your underwear, expect gawking, complaining, some will like it, some wont, and ultimately you shouldn't do it.

O.K.....here we go.
I am sick and tired of folks posting on this bs site about what they think.

Your “thoughts” are only that.......thoughts.
Let’s take a moment and look at reality.
1. Everything you have been told by the “media” is subject to investigation.
2. If YOU don’t investigate it, you could be manipulated by others thoughts.
3. The information you find, may or may not be the truth.
4. YOU make your...assumptions... based upon the biased “media” that comes into your existence.
5. YOU take a stand and defend that stand due to ego.
6. YOU will not let another tell you what is in fact reality.
7. You WILL let another tell you that they are closer to god than you so you should succomb to their beliefs.
8. For some absurd reason, you let “elected officials” tell you what is right and wrong...good and bad...legal an illegal.........

Stop...........

The list could go on..

The Earth is a living entity just as much as a butterfly.
If the crust of the Earth moves..or quakes...it’s called an “earthquake”.
Earthquakes cause massive shifting in the land masses.
People live on land masses.
People will be shifted with earthquakes.


What is the big deal here? ..Why all the media attention?

Let’s look closer.

Cnn said there was a massive Tsunami headed for Hawaii and we all tuned in and watched......
First time I have watched tv in some 5 umpteen years.....................After all is said and done, what did they actually report?

As usual, ,,..........nothing.

There was a board room meeting somewhere and someone said.........”Our “ratings” were up by 17%!!!!!!!!!,,,........................
Economics.....forget about the earthquake.....we made commercial time..........Let’s run that Doritos ad again....and again and again......................unreal.

Do any of you fellow humans see an underlying tome in this agenda?

Have you thought for “yourself” in the last 30 years?
I adamantly despise the christian doctrine because it tells you that you are a POS and you need atonement through some vice president of the REAL president. I have no problem that it might help people in their plight, but come on......... how idiotic can you be?

Atonement.........at/one/ment.......makes a heck of a difference ...no?

I wanted to rant on in this thread about all the stuff that is happening but I have a cast on my hand and have had to resort to “hunt and peck” and it makes me see things in an even greater perspective...

Let me ask one of the “christian, bible beating, ranters” on here this question.....I have posed many and had no answers....I must be on “ignore” with most.......lol....who cares...

If your Christian god is so powerful and loving and forgiving............Why doesn’t he just “forgive” (satan, devil,evil,..etc) and let his beautiful creation called mankind, get on with his evolution?

You guys have no idea how contradictory your story is.......

C’mon...look at non-reality for a moment and stop telling people that god is a big old guy in the sky that wants to kill you in hell...Let’s see...(HE) Wanted one of his followers to sacrifice a child on an alter. He killed all those he didn’t like with a flood...He said do not kill but tells you to go and kill your neighbor if they have weird dreams....

How are you people “NOT” like the Mayans worshiping the “sun” god?

Goofy christians......

Peas and love.......may ----------- be with you.....

reply to post by BlackPoison94


Unfortunately, religion is necessary for the world to go on. If left to themselves people would be savages. The only real law would be the law of the jungle and most people of the world would be slaves or victims. It takes the fear of God and a possible retribution after your life is over to make a good number of people to take the high road.

You are making a fatal assumption that if left to their devices that most people would be good and respectful of others. What would happen is that you would have generations of two year olds in the bodies of adults. They would have no conscience. No moral compass to follow. the world would be a horror movie where gang rule would be the only rule.

If nothing else religion was an invention of the meek to control despots and dictators. Why would you want to mess that up?

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I personally view religion the same way I view underwear. Many people have em, often its right below the surface, but you dont strut around in public with it...its to be shown to people whom are close in private places.

If you insist on walking out in public showing your underwear, expect gawking, complaining, some will like it, some wont, and ultimately you shouldn't do it.

Saturn!

Very well said, you really nailed it!

Originally posted by ntech
reply to post by BlackPoison94

 

Unfortunately, religion is necessary for the world to go on. If left to themselves people would be savages. The only real law would be the law of the jungle and most people of the world would be slaves or victims. It takes the fear of God and a possible retribution after your life is over to make a good number of people to take the high road.

You are making a fatal assumption that if left to their devices that most people would be good and respectful of others. What would happen is that you would have generations of two year olds in the bodies of adults. They would have no conscience. No moral compass to follow. the world would be a horror movie where gang rule would be the only rule.

If nothing else religion was an invention of the meek to control despots and dictators. Why would you want to mess that up?

Ypur making the massive assumption that people can not be good without religion in their lives which is pure poppy cock. at somepoint humans will have got together and decided that killing and stealing others properties were a bad thing. I'm sure they would have come around to this before the creation of any religion.

And I'll think you'll find religion was created by the despots to help maintain their rule over the meek.

Originally posted by BlackPoison94
Gandhi? Mother Teresa? Albert Schweitzer?

Sorry, but these people do not lend credence to their various religions. Schweitzer probably would have been a philanthropist even without religion, Ghandi was hypocritical about medicine - dsallowing his wife to take any but taking some to try to save himself, and Theresa was certainly no model for christianity in any way. Stealing Haitian's money from the Duvaliers to set up her own death centers wherein people died uncomfortably,without medical aid and no visits from friends or family. To say religions deserve respect because there's a few people involved with them that you admire for whatever reasons is an intellectually weak argument.

reply to post by BlackPoison94


Good post Poison

But with all due respect, I respect the likes of Ghandi, not the religion he practiced. I don't believe that if religion had not existed, he would have been a bad person. I'm a good person and I don't need a religion by my side to prove it. My actions prove it, not my spiritual affiliation.

If you would have posed this question 5 years ago, I would have answered with a resounding HELL NO!!!!

But I've mellowed through the years and I realize now that there are some people on this planet that need an organization that tells them that God loves them and there is a light at the end of this tunnel called life. They need to be around other people like them to know they are not alone in the world.Without that organization, religion, they would be lost in this world.

Does religion have a place in our society? Yes. But not to the extent that it is now. It needs to be downsized..... alot. Religion may not be the cause of the majority of the wars this world has seen, but it IS one of the major causes that people don't get along and I don't think anyone can dispute that.



Peace

reply to post by ntech


If you take religion out of the equation, you still have police forces and militaries all over the world. Are you saying that religion rules over them?

There are 4 churches in the town I live in [it's a small town] if they were to dissapear, I highly doubt there would be riots in the streets.

Take the bars away though and that's a different story

So the human race would have no moral compass were it not not for religion? Putting it on a pretty high pedastal aren't ya buddy? What exactly is it that you think religion is? The ultimate control mechanism that if the human race were to do without we would be reduced to brain dead zombies? I don't know who you think you are, but you're not going to get very far on this website saying stuff like that.

Put the keyboard down and go to church, you need it.....bad.



Peace

Really, that's up for society to decide isn't it? Obviously it serves a purpose in society... though perhaps not the one advertised/promoted... and perhaps not an especially healthy one in certain expressions in this day and age... but it does serve a purpose.

I don't find a spot for formal religion in my life, and I will argue why that is the case without hesitation. I think society would be better off without dogma and fundamentalism, but that extends beyond religion to other spheres of human organizations such as culture, political affiliation, governmental/economic configurations, philosophies, etc. It is, after all, quite possible for two nations to obliterate each other over dogmatic entrenched fundamentalist positions over shared resource distribution methods. Religion is a major powder keg for fundamentalist idiocy... but it is not the only one.


So I'll do my part from time to time when the need or whim arises to try to argue the case for the kind of society I want to see emerge. I doubt I'll convince anyone directly in an exchange, especially a fundamentalists... but others read these threads, and you'll never know who you convince or lead on the path to deconversion that you don't see because they're lurking or won't read the exchange till days, months, or years after the participants left it.

I think there are people that just want to judge everyone else. I think people should look at others individualy as individuals and go from there. There have been christians that have done horrible things, does the mean my neighbor is guilty of those actions too becasue they share the same religion? Stalin,pol pot and kim jung il have killed millions within our lifetimes, does that mean that my atheist neighbor is guilty of that too? In both cases the answer is no. Bad people do bad things and that is the bottom line.

Yeah I now understand where you guys are coming from about my view on leaders and their influence. Traditionaldrummer I do see how they would have still impacted without and thanks for that. I sincerely apologise about that point i included. Going onto some other posts, humans don't need religon however religon in some cases enlighten others to take a moral path. I'm not saying all do but some. However it's not like we can't make do without religon, hell, there could be someone plottin to use it to their advantage. haha SaturnFX it's actually a very true idea.

reply to post by BlackPoison94




I think the fundamental principles of most religions are love, respect, peace, unity and charity, which of course are all brilliant principles and ideals.
There is nothing wrong with religion... in principle

But it's the extremists who usually get all the coverage and usually give religion a bad name.

From Fred Phelps to suicide bombers to paedophile priests... all are at the extremes of religion.

But I believe also, that religion in general just causes division and that can't be a good thing.