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Light bends matter, surprising scientists

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posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by drew hempel
 


obviously you ignored my post of video and articles

look at this

nobelprize.org

nobelprize.org...




posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by spec_ops_wannabe
Am I making sense?
Edit to insert:

No, I don't think it makes sense. Just look at the DNA picture you posted and look at the picture in the article linked in the OP, it's simply a repulsive force that's driving all the individual strands away from each other. I don't see any similarity between that and the DNA double helix.

Well at least about one poster in three in this thread read the article and understands it. But it's still astonishing how many of the other 2/3 of posters treated the OP as if it's some kind of mystery that will explain some kind of strange theory they have which has next to nothing to do with this experiment at all.

Frankly, I'm surprised that the scientists were surprised, these results don't seem at all surprising to me, but in any case, they studied the effect for years and confirmed what's causing it, just simple electrical repulsion, so we don't need a lot of wild theories to explain something because it's already explained, right?

And someone compared their off the wall theory to string theory as if it's just a matter of time before it gets some following? Please, I don't think so, and while string theory does have a following, it's not universal and some scientists are still looking for any link it has to reality via proof.

In contrast to that, the story in the OP is a very real effect, and since they figured out what caused it, I don't see the need for all this wild speculation about unrelated things that some posters have put in this thread. Thanks to the other posters who have pointed this out too and tried to bring this thread back to reality.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by Wolfenz
 


Your link on wave-particle duality concludes:



The latter three are very heavy particles, whereas the photon is massless.


So instead momentum has to due with phase shift and frequency whereas mass is the amplitude through the inverse square law -- using weight. Originally it was 4 times the weight stretches a string to twice the frequency -- so that's the inverse square law.

But in momentum you have the time-frequency uncertainty principle of quantum mechanics -- even Einstein was confused about this because he thought light had mass -- light has momentum.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


iopscience.iop.org...

Here's some mainstream physics on DNA and photons.

Fritz-Alfred Popp in Germany designed a technology for biophoton analysis of DNA -- but he got ridiculed as a quack by mainstream physics. But Popp is correct -- it's just very weak and it is quantum.

So the hypothesis that the spiral of the DNA is due to the effects of light is proper to the thread -- if you want to just call it ionization or resonance or transduction -- it depends on the interpretation.

pubs.acs.org...



Moreover, the hairpin structure of the motor backbone can significantly improve the efficiency of light-to-movement energy conversion.


www.nature.com...

[edit on 25-3-2010 by drew hempel]

[edit on 25-3-2010 by drew hempel]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by drew hempel
reply to post by Wolfenz
 


Your link on wave-particle duality concludes:



The latter three are very heavy particles, whereas the photon is massless.


So instead momentum has to due with phase shift and frequency whereas mass is the amplitude through the inverse square law -- using weight. Originally it was 4 times the weight stretches a string to twice the frequency -- so that's the inverse square law.

But in momentum you have the time-frequency uncertainty principle of quantum mechanics -- even Einstein was confused about this because he thought light had mass -- light has momentum.





a snippit of the photon for of course wiki lol

Experimental checks on photon mass

The photon is currently believed to be strictly massless, but this is an experimental question. If the photon is not a strictly massless particle, it would not move at the exact speed of light in vacuum, c. Its speed would be lower and depend on its frequency. Relativity would be unaffected by this; the so-called speed of light, c, would then not be the actual speed at which light moves, but a constant of nature which is the maximum speed that any object could theoretically attain in space-time.[18] Thus, it would still be the speed of space-time ripples (gravitational waves and gravitons), but it would not be the speed of photons.

source en.wikipedia.org...

as this is questionable and a experimental question and to believed to be
who's to say ! truthfully I would not know but i have heard of things that happened in the last 2 years to prove physics differenly than thought l

or this A spinning top increases its weight much more than expected
news.softpedia.com...

or water in liquid form at - below freezing point
www.npr.org...

top 13 thing that does not make sense from new scientist
www.newscientist.com...

well were studying new ground here



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 05:15 PM
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It's interesting to note that this information is being revealed now while the U.S. government EVIDENTLY knew about this for quite awhile.

Proof of this can be ascertained by reviewing the information the Military's research and development (DARPA) website reveals in their Information in a Photon solicitation.

It's quite intriguing to say the least. Great find OP, s&f for you!



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by garritynet
 


Hmm interesting.

It's almost as though the photons have an innate gravitational effect on the nanomaterial.

I absolutely love it when these things happen.

The discoveries are interesting enough in themselves, but what give me the real kick is this is solid proof, yet again, that we know very little, yet cling to dogma as though it were a life-vest, in a sea of scientific ignorance.

Impossible is a word for yesterday's minds.

That New Scientist article is fascinating (the 13 unknowns) wolfenz, thanks for the link. The Inflation and the 'Horizon problem' mentioned, is the feature of a BBC documentary you might want to see called; Horizon - Is everything we know about the Universe wrong?

It goes into quite a bit of detail about this stuff, and is really interesting.

[edit on 25/3/2010 by spikey]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by Wolfenz
 


Yeah definitely some alchemy going on here:



Igor Lubomirsky of Israel's Weizmann Institute of Science has been working with unusual materials called pyroelectric amorphous solids. These materials change their electrical charge depending on their temperature. Lubomirsky noticed that when he put water on these materials, the freezing point depended on the charge. Negative charge lowers the freezing point, positive charges raise it. "Just the presence of electric charge by itself, on a surface that is not conductive, does something to water," he says. 'A Good Subject To Think About' Lubomirsky found something else strange. On a positively charged surface, the water freezes from the bottom up, and on a negative surface, the water freezes from the top down. Lubomirsky says he doesn't know why changing charge alters the freezing properties of the water. "But what we do know is we have a very, very, very good subject to think about," he says. His results appear in the latest edition of the journal Science.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by Wolfenz
 





They hope other physicists will now conduct their own versions of the experiment so they could be absolutely certain that they have really measured the gravitomagnetic field and not something else. This may be the first empiric clue for how to merge together quantum mechanics and general theory of relativity in a single unified theory.


Yeah this is what Bush Boyd refers to in his David Sereda interview -- how magnets change gravity -- and now the opposite was discovered. This means that there has to be an electrogravitic propulsion effect as well.

Here's my expose on this issue:

THE REASON THE PHOTON IS WRONG and the SECRET OF ALCHEMY (anti-copyright)

by drew hempel, MA

Here goes. Where the hell does amplitude go anyway when Einstein created the photon particle for light? I mean the amplitude squared for the quanta has brought endless interminal debates on whether quantum mechanics involves an observer or not and what the hell it all means.

In point of fact the real issue is logarithmic science in general because it all comes from Pythagoras and how the sine-wave creates asymmetric time reversal!

Just read "Stalking the Riemann Hypothesis" 2006 for how natural numbers turn into quantum chaos that violates the commutative principle.

Or consider that in basic music theory C to G is 2:3 while G to C is 3:4 and western music "averages" this off into a circle of fifths when in fact the Law of Pythagoras, proven empirically, states it's INFINITE RESONANCE OF 2:3 as alchemical complimentary opposites.

So... as professor Bart Kosko points out in his new book "NOISE" unless the sine-wave is tempered or turned into a logarithmic measurement with frequency then there can be no overcoming the time-frequency uncertainty principle that is crucial to quantum chaos.

Well the problem with this whole creation of frequency to "square the circle" (FREEMASONRY) for AMPLITUDE is that

as demonstrated in the photoelectric effect -- intensity or energy is actually created from frequency (not amplitude which just gives us the number of photons -- according to the new statistical interpretation).

In otherwords there was a DEEP DISHARMONY created when the true Law of Pythagoras was ignored for the purposes of increased amplitude (or technological power better known as logarithmic magnitude as density or intensity).

I should point out that intensity comes from water measurements which are an inherent macro quantum molecule and in fact we're running out of water due to this whole Freemasonic amplitude-magnitude-intensity crisis!!

So you can't separate power or amplitude from WAVEFORM which has to be the asymmetrical sinewave that resonates into...

the fourth dimension of space as nonlocal consciousness (yes the PSI WAVE is not just some statistical abstraction but refers to the real ether).

In fact Einstein did return to the ETHER concept for his unified field research but of course he failed for the same reason that everyone else fails.

You can get to the ether through pure logic as inference -- what's the source of the I-thought, as Kurt Godel did (Einstein's best buddy).

Or you can get to the ether through Pythagorean harmonics (as Plato, Ficino, Kepler, Buckyfuller, Tesla, John Keely, Schauberger and others have).

This means that the blackbody spectrum giving the intensity of rainbow light based on logarithmic statistics is really wrong (hence the big problem with astronomy, as Charles Fort points out so well in his book LO!)

Anyway the answer to the photoelectric effect is that frequency is an asymmetrical sinewave so time slows down as the intensity or power is increased.

This is why Newton was against the equal-tempered music scale!! He was also against Galileo's interpretation of Pythagoras because Newton knew that the blacksmith myth covered up the true meaning of mass as INTENSITY.

In otherwords, as professor James Bunn details, it was discovered in the 1960s that Newton got his gravity concept directly from the fact that if you stretch a string with weights to 4 times its length you get twice the frequency. While Galileo claimed that Pythagoras thought the weight of a hammer increased the frequency -- the old blacksmith myth was just a cover story according to Newton -- hiding the deeper alchemical truth. Bournelli then built on Galileo's misunderstanding to create logarithmic statistics which brought us to the ultraviolet catastrophe (supposedly solved by Einstein).

But the inverse square law breaks down through alchemy (Peter Plicha has figured this out as well -- somewhat at least).

As Pythagoras states 2:3 resonates as 3:4 in violation of the commutative principle. Both Alain Connes and Brian Josephson recently claim music theory is the formal language for quantum logic -- again they don't come from a music background and so neither trully understand what they are talking about.

The Phonon-Amplitude mystery is the central key to investigating the photoelectric effect and its relation to thermodynamic paradoxes in quantum chaos. See Sudarshan's book "Doubt and Certainty" (1998) for the best analysis.

Sudarshan developed the weak nuclear force theory and does the best analysis of asymmetry in science.

Essentially nonwestern music transcends asymmetry because again the sinewave resonates into 3 dimensions to create the holograph of reality but the origin of the sinewave is FORMLESS EMPTY AWARENESS or nonlocal consciousness beyond spacetime.

The sinewave is the Form of the Formless and represents the Snake as the Tai Chi symbol, Levithan, Apopis (creating the apocalypse), the Oruborus, etc.

The Secret of the Snake tells us why Kepler's contemporaries were all Rosicrucians obsessed with 666.

666 as 2:3 turns into the square root of two as the TRITONE (the interval of the Devil) because it's 9:8 cubed approximated, according to music professor Ernest McClain.

So you get the whole 12 note scale from 2:3 cycling (remember the cycle of fifths) but true alchemy is based on the small universe -- the 12 nodes around the outside of the body -- that transform the body into rainbow light and then into pure consciousness!!

See the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and immortality" for all the details or read my stuff freely online.

nonduality.com...

Well the secret symbol of Kepler was an equilateral triangle (made of two Pythagoran 3:4:5 triangles) with a circle on the outside and a circle on the inside.

The circle on the outside is the small universe. The circle on the inside is the five main organs of the body.

The circle on the inside represents the TRUE PHOTOELECTRIC EFFECT.

Yellow is intention or kidney energy (fear turned into pure consciousness).

Red is excitement or heart energy (over-excitement turned into love).

Green is anger or liver energy (drunk anger turned into wisdom after seeing the light).

Black is kidney energy as the life force (death turns into life as yellow -- the white hole/black hole thing).

Those are the true primary colors of the photoelectric effect.

The secret symbol of Kepler resonates because of the new asymmetric time reversal secret of quantum chaos....

chalk it all up to "spontaneous symmetry breaking" -- that is random yet creates 50% left-hand asymmetry and 50% right-hand asymmetry.

That tells you that randomness is really wrong and the Pythagorean Tetrad is really right!!

The tetrad: 1:2:3:4 is the equilateral triangle which in turn is two 3:4:5 triangles. This was the secret of Plato discovered by Ficino and spread throughout Europe through the Medici Dynasty to create humanism.

Just read music professor Stuart Isacoff's book Temperament -- the ratio 4:5 created humanism -- why because 5:4 (music resonace inverts) approximates the cube root of two.

This is the secret to the Gaussian i-1 grid (as to Why the equilateral triangle can measure 3D with only square roots!!) See Arthur Young.

Anyway so if you take Kepler's secret symbol -- the equilateral triangle -- because of asymmetric time reversal with spontaneous symmetry breaking (Or really because of Cosmic Love, as Kepler knew) -- the ratio 4:5 resonates out of the Tetrad and

... the larger circle is AN ELLIPSE!!

And there you have it folks!!

So not only do we get all the colors from Natural Numbers but we can explain gravity and cosmic dynamics as well.

drew hempel, MA

[edit on 25-3-2010 by drew hempel]

[edit on 25-3-2010 by drew hempel]

[edit on 25-3-2010 by drew hempel]

[edit on 25-3-2010 by drew hempel]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by drew hempel
 


...Pardon?

Sorry, only joking (arguably).

For the more jargon challenged, could you sum it all up as one 'bin man' to another might do?

Lots of very interesting stuff in there, but i have to say, i only partially understand about one tenth of what you wrote Drew, but i can appreciate the effort you've put in.

Thanks. I think..



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by drew hempel
 


Does this mean we can repair mutated or damaged DNA with light (at the proper frequency), reorganising or correcting the spiral strands?

I wonder if this is why light therapy works on people with S.A.D.? or is that just a Vit. D problem?



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by drew hempel
So the hypothesis that the spiral of the DNA is due to the effects of light is proper to the thread --


You quoted three sources and I failed to find in any of then any reference to the helix structure of DNA being due to light.

If such a reference is in there please point out which source and where, but I'm not seeing it.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by drew hempel
 


But what exactly IS momentum? Also, doesn't p = mv?



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:11 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


The spiral nature of the DNA is hypothesized to be caused by light changing matter since DNA transduces light -- as my links demontrate -- and because the effect on nanomatter is to create spirals.

Now that was not my hypothesis -- I only have backed up the original poster of it because again 1) DNA absorbs and transduces light 2) DNA is a spiral and the nanomatter was turned into a spiral.

I realize that logical connections can sometimes be difficult to make -- but that's why hypothesis are -- they are making NEW connections.

Another connection is that plants grown in spirals as the grow towards light -- or as light is transduced by the plants during photosynthesis.

It's called phytotaxis or something -- there's another term for it as well -- that's used by Stan Gooch in his book "Total Man." I reference it in my blogbook Deep Disharmony.

I hope that helps explain things for you -- science should not have to be passive but if you choose to wait for someone to prove something before it can be considered then I guess you'll just have to wait.

Good luck in your endeavors.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by spikey
 


Yeah light therapy is increasingly used -- blue light is most common -- but there's many devices now sold backed up by university medical research! Sure some are getting sifted out as quack devices but others are mainstream --

Just do searches -- I'll find a prominent one for you to get you started.

www.quantumdev.com...




Biologists have found that cells exposed to near-infrared light — that is, energy just outside the visible range — from LEDs grow 150 to 200 percent faster than those cells not stimulated by such light. The light arrays increase energy inside cells that speed up the healing process.


[edit on 25-3-2010 by drew hempel]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by spikey
 


Basically science is built on faulty logic -- there is no pure math -- there is magnitude used as momentum.

I have an expose on this nonduality.com... after I finished my masters thesis in 2000.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by np6888
 


You might be interested in Arthur Young's lecture on momentum and photons:

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

He has some interesting critiques of momentum -- it's not quite the same as what I'm saying -- but nevertheless he addresses the issue.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:59 PM
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This isn't surprising and it makes perfect sense anyway. It's facinating what science is discovering these days, the more it discovers the more I see it disproves a big explosion of nothing to create something that caused a microbe to mutate into human beings over time.
No need for anyone to freak out and get all nasty toward me, just that's what I see and I love it when new discoveries occur.
Like when science discovered the earth was round and the Bible already said so. Like when they discovered positive thought helps heal the body and the Bible already said so. Like when they discovered that fat and blood isn't a good diet and the Bible already said so.
Just my 2 cents worth!
It's what we will never know as human beings that is the most interesting like how to pass through walls and transcend time etc. All goosebumpy stuff.
What we can't see is more real than what we can see.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:59 PM
link   
This isn't surprising and it makes perfect sense anyway. It's facinating what science is discovering these days, the more it discovers the more I see it disproves a big explosion of nothing to create something that caused a microbe to mutate into human beings over time.
No need for anyone to freak out and get all nasty toward me, just that's what I see and I love it when new discoveries occur.
Like when science discovered the earth was round and the Bible already said so. Like when they discovered positive thought helps heal the body and the Bible already said so. Like when they discovered that fat and blood isn't a good diet and the Bible already said so.
Just my 2 cents worth!
It's what we will never know as human beings that is the most interesting like how to pass through walls and transcend time etc. All goosebumpy stuff.
What we can't see is more real than what we can see.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:59 PM
link   
This isn't surprising and it makes perfect sense anyway. It's facinating what science is discovering these days, the more it discovers the more I see it disproves a big explosion of nothing to create something that caused a microbe to mutate into human beings over time.
No need for anyone to freak out and get all nasty toward me, just that's what I see and I love it when new discoveries occur.
Like when science discovered the earth was round and the Bible already said so. Like when they discovered positive thought helps heal the body and the Bible already said so. Like when they discovered that fat and blood isn't a good diet and the Bible already said so.
Just my 2 cents worth!
It's what we will never know as human beings that is the most interesting like how to pass through walls and transcend time etc. All goosebumpy stuff.
What we can't see is more real than what we can see.



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