Play time is over.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Now that we know there are serious political problems occurring in the United States, it is truly American Political Madness. I truly fear that there could be a political meltdown soon. The next legislation that will be worked on will be Immigration reform, as we all know immigration is almost as touchy as healthcare. Now that the right-wing is more energetic and angry than ever before we could see serious problems that could arise soon. Many of you on ATS are supporters of revolution against the government; you see it as the enemy.

I am not a huge fan of our government since it is corrupt and are not big fans of listening to the people but I will openly state I am staunchly against any form of revolution of any kind. We are beginning to see secessionist talk from Florida and Texas, we are seeing the right-wing threatening politician’s lives and vandalizing democratic property. What we are beginning to see is a scary rise of lunatics and many are right here on ATS, some of you scare the hell out of me and when I hear about these attacks I can't help but think that this kind of stuff could be caused by some of the rhetoric right here on ATS.

I will not get applause for my thread from people who will call me a government agent, a socialist or the enemy. You support a revolution and the overthrow or radical changing of our government to fit what you deem as correct. It is your interpretation of the constitution and the way society works, instead of voting which you will insist is a waste of time you would rather see the overthrow of our entire political system. What about us on the left who are angry at the government but would prefer to fix it than overthrow it? What about us after your revolution, what are we supposed to do? You don't think, that's the problem. People have lost their minds and are so worried about making America into what they see is right they will blatantly disregard everyone.

The right needs to stop NOW! You must stop, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, etc... They need to stop. They want to open up a can of worms that they could never understand. They are inciting a revolution or a civil war. Please just stop it now! This is out of control and they need to stop before it's too late. I don't want to live in a Tea Party paradise, just like the overwhelming majority of Americans don't either.

I also want to make it clear that if there is to be a revolution or civil war because of your total disregard for anyone besides yourself I will fight you back. The left will fight just as hard as you. If you want your revolution it won't just be the government you are fighting you will have to fight the left because we damn sure won't go quietly. We will fight you from Phoenix to Washington. We won't back down, I won't back down. This country belongs to us, all American people, not just you and your political ideology. You better be ready for us to fight you, it won't be as easy as you wish.

[edit on 3/24/10 by Misoir]

So no one is willing to comment on this thread? No surprise.

Must the majority be held hostage by the minority in a democratic nation?

The President won in a free election, with a mandate from the People to administer. The vote for healthcare by elected representatives in the national legislature had been taken freely. The vote spoke clearly and truly.

US democracy had work, and had worked for centuries. Despots and would be despots had but only 4-8 years to wreck the havoc. Thanks to Bush for our present predicaments. Its fanatics have yet to give up and continue to seek for power to dominate the common masses. They had their day in the sun and had created a huge mess, which only now decent people are trying their best to unravel.

Terrorists had held the world in fear. Terrorists are a minority holding the majority hostage for decades. Are we to allow terrorists whom use violence to tyrannize decent folks? Are we to cower in fear and give in to terrorism and violence?

IS THIS THE AMERICAN WAY?!

For that minority who hates the system and intends to use violence to achieve their aims instead of the ballot box, I am sure Somalia today would welcome your brand of violence and ‘freedom’ with open arms. Some of the decent folks there who are sick of the tyranny and rule of chaos there would gladly change places.

The airports are opened 24 hours a day.

PS: This post is not directed to the minority who dislikes the HC bill but is willing to seek non-violent means to achieve a referendum. This post is directed solely to the violent beasts who believe tyranny of violence is the ONLY WAY.

I've never heard a call for revolt from either Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin.
And if you think this is just about healthcare you've got another thing coming. This has been brewing for a very long time, and people are finally tired of it.

I do not want to to see the country destroyed. A revolution may do just that in the end. Anyone who wants a revolution hasn't spent much time asking themselves "What happens after?" The government IS the enemy. Has been for a long time. People are more willing now than ever before to actually do something.


Obama will not be leaving Iraq as promised. We will be in Afghanistan until the end of time. We are still operating under emergency powers and the patriot act has not been repealed it's been strengthened-One of the men instrumental in it's original construction is the Vice-President, Obama voted our 4th amendment rights away along with a corrupt congress when he voted for the new patriot act and FISA amendments to remove any judicial review of wire tapping innocent Americans. The unconstitutional terror watch list was touted by Rahm Emmanuel as a good way to institute gun control. There are 7 year old American kids on that list.

If it's NOT time for a revolution today, after Obama and Congress sold us all to the insurance industry under penalty of fines and possible jail, after. the extension of the bailout to the tune of 27 trillion, after nationalizing car companies, student loans, and the banking industry, after he directed the supreme court to overturn Michigan V Jackson, after everything we have seen in the last 10 years, when will it be time?

No, I do not wish ill upon America. War is horrible. But when I came to this country I took freedoms seriously, because after everything my family has gone through I'll be damned if I or any other freedom loving individual stands by while we are robbed, shut out, carted off to meaningless wars, and sold off to corporation so that the government can ensure it's solvency long enough to take what left of the loot.

It HAS TO STOP SOME DAY.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by projectvxn]

I am against our current government, but I don't think your a government agent, and being a socialist isn't that horrible. We need a revolution of some sort, but I don't really favor an ultra right wing revolution because it would be even worse than what we have now. A modern day militaristic theocracy is not much better than a fascist state having the strings pulled by bankers, big money, and societies whose aim is a global government. Unfortunately when the people DO vote and participate by protesting peacefully, and calling their representatives, and voting against all sorts of legislation from the bailouts to healthcare, and they are still ignored violence will result. Surveillance and control tactics are being stepped up nationwide as well as worldwide, and the people are responding in kind with acts of disobedience as well as violence.

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable.

However, I have to say if you follow Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck in you 'revolution', please do not claim to be 'awake', or 'intelligent', or 'patriotic'. Go ahead and freak out if you want if you want to, neo-cons.

The right doesn't need to stop.

The left needs to stop.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
The right doesn't need to stop.

The left needs to stop.

We haven't been doing anything. The right needs to stop their stupidity before blood runs in the streets. If the right is do darn hell bent on changing to system then they need to stop voting for republicans. They are retarded they won't vote for a third party because they would rather have a revolution. They don't want to use intelligence or debate they just want to use violence and intimidation. Don't give me that 'they won't listen to us' bull crap because you always have the option of voting for a third party or neither party. No one is stopping you but you!

Neither the right nor the left needs to stop anything. Disagreements and differences never threaten the US. The ebb and pull between conservatives, liberals, and all political ideals is one of the key components of the American spirit, and history.

It's the government that needs to cease and desist!

If the people of this nation want the powers of the federal government expanded it can be done so through the constitutional amendment process...this is the only legal means to alter or expand on the duties and responsibilities of the federal government.

Any other method is absolutely illegal, unconstitutional, unethical, and stands in defiance of everything the USA means.

I see where you are coming from sir, and I agree that violence is not going to help at all with the situation. I would like to see people try and avoid repeating history as much as possible and come up with more creative forms of revolution rather than destructive forms of it, because you can already see what is going to happen if the violence continues.

People and/or entire groups of people with be declared "enemy belligerents" or straight out "terrorists" and that plays right into the police state/martial law trap. I trust you can imagine what that will turn into and it could snowball into even more violence and non-violent bystanders will be further trained/coerced into obedience. Violence is not going to work.

The right believe in the Constitution and the way this country is supposed to be, the way it was for the most of my life.

The left believe in the government and all it can do for them. Disgusting to say the least.....

Well I agree that the notions of secession and revolution is unnerving, but also the United States is screwed whether we have one or not, financially speaking of course. Just my opinion.

The liberals were just as mad when Bush was doing his stuff too, I heard people talking about wanting to shoot him and what not. Also what is the difference between leftists calling for revolution (like communism) and a right wing calling for revolution?

One final thought, I was listening to a politician I like today talk about the Constitution and it's original intent and something finally struck a chord with me. American's when the nation was founded couldn't agree on much, other than the fact that they didn't want the Federal Government trampling all over their state's business. Statesmanship actually meant something in those days, the Constitution made it so the Feds couldn't interfere with much regarding the states other than INTERSTATE COMMERCE (meaning what is sold over states borders) War, Foreign Relations, etc.

What I'm trying to say is, shouldn't things like health care reform be done by a state to state level? Wouldn't that make everyone happier? If your state is too leftist or right you can move to one that suits you, or participate in your states elections, which by the way is much easier than trying to influence national elections. The loss of States powers against the Feds was what sparked the Civil War, is it a surprise we're seeing a similar battle now?

[edit on 24-3-2010 by asmall89]

I don't know who the right or left are anymore. All I know is that no matter if we vote democrat or republican, someone from the other "team" is going to get ummm f@#$%. Protests, threats and violence will get us no were. We know that they are doing things wrong and it doesn't matter who is in power any more. I am convinced of this and others have to have noticed this as well. Things are not being done right and I don't mean that voting is not right, what I mean is that when these people are writing these laws, they add so much stuff in them that it is not possible for the people to know exactly what is involved in them, both sides are guilty of doing this. It is not their government, it is our government and we have all the rights to make them do the job that they were hired for and do it right, if they don't do it right, we can fire them by voting them out.
My only solution to this is to vote out all of the people that we see that are only doing things to please their party and make no decisions for themselves. As I see it, voting for all of the independent candidates is the only way out of this. Both parties are way in too deep with the people that give them money and now they are going to have no limits on what the people with money can contribute to them.
We are all desperate and soon will start attacking each other without looking at why we are behaving this way and who is making us do this.

misior, you can do better than that, wheres the love.
where's the facts and logic? think like a big person, are you in Seattle? just curious.
you're this close to having the truth, but read and research a little more.Jefferson has some quotes for you, would you be amenable to thinking what the founders spoke? then Andrew Jackson said some awakening details.it's true i love you, do you love me?

reply to post by Misoir


What are you so afraid of?

I've asked this many times and yet no one seems to be able to answer the question.

When I call for a revolution - I call for a movement towards freedom. A movement away from minority rules and into the realm of individualism that the country was intended. Why are you so afraid of a revolution like this?

You will STILL be able to think, believe, speak against, and do anything you would today... in fact... you would be able to DO MORE! The only difference is that the will of a few will not be imposed on absolutely everybody. Each person will be commander of his own will.

You speak of it as a right/left issue but it isn't. IT NEVER HAS BEEN! It is an issue between those who desire and cherish their personal freedom and those who would try to take them away in order to push their agendas.

Are you afraid that there won't be any more legislation pushing the ideologies that YOU want onto others?

Are you afraid that government might not be there to lend a hand to people who have run themselves into a rut?




Nobody LIKES violence. Nobody WANTS blood on the streets. Those who do are the ones who are truly mentally ill. I call for revolution but I have no intention of harming a hair on a person's body unless they would choose to inflict harm on me first.

What exactly would you be fighting to defend Misior?

If I was walking by your house on my way to DC, gun in hand to demand that Washington be turned back to the people, would you shoot me? Why?

Because you are afraid of losing the lifestyle that you have been handed - the pseudo appeasing lifestyle that keeps you content and longing for more... though for your entire life you will settle for "just enough".




History speaks for itself. I know people are arrogant and ignorant to the threads of time, and they feel that it is not a good thing to go by but seriously, c'mon. What is your voting going to do? What are your protests going to accomplish? Look down the road and tell me... when... if ever will the peaceful methods change this country back to what it is supposed to be?




They won't.

In the realm of people who believe this government is corrupt - there are two different distinctions.

There are those that are afraid to take chances or risks - those afraid of the unknown. These are the people that will forever, no matter how long that takes, be stuck on the belief that the system we have will somehow fix itself.

Then there are those who are no longer afraid. There are those that realize what is at stake and how something needs to be done as soon as possible or there will be NO TURNING BACK.



Let go of your fear... everybody. You don't have to fight but you should realize that we aren't fighting just for us... we are fighting for the individual. We are fighting for you, your families, our future generations. We will lay our lives on the line and die for that and if you don't want to... you don't have to. Who would we be to tell you how to act or judge you if you didn't follow our merits?

In the end you only have to ask, to you respect YOURSELF and do you want to be YOU. If you can answer yes to that then you have nothing to worry about from a revolution. To the revolutionaries, you won't be on the radar and the government, they wouldn't have the balls to involve you in the middle.



In the end, revolution WILL come, as I have said all along. But it will not be about the left or right... it will be about YOU.

Originally posted by Misoir
www.msnbc.msn.com...

Now that the right-wing is more energetic and angry than ever before we could see serious problems that could arise soon. Many of you on ATS are supporters of revolution against the government; you see it as the enemy.

When government steals from me and tramples my rights it indeed has become my enemy!

I am not a huge fan of our government since it is corrupt and are not big fans of listening to the people but I will openly state I am staunchly against any form of revolution of any kind.

So you see problems but you are relatively content with the way things are? Makes me wonder what government welfare/theft program you benefit from.

We are beginning to see secessionist talk from Florida and Texas,

So you are against the peoples of those states exercising thier rights to govern themselves as they see fit? So what do you think? They should be forced to stay a part of the union that has abandoned the principles it was founded on? Wouldn't this be a more peaceful way to settle the differences of a people divided? Live and let live? You go your way and we go ours?

we are seeing the right-wing threatening politician’s lives and vandalizing democratic property. What we are beginning to see is a scary rise of lunatics and many are right here on ATS, some of you scare the hell out of me and when I hear about these attacks I can't help but think that this kind of stuff could be caused by some of the rhetoric right here on ATS.

So I guess our founding fathers were lunatics when the threatened tax collectors, tarred and feathered them, and broke windows of crown agents when they went to far etc....

You support a revolution and the overthrow or radical changing of our government to fit what you deem as correct. It is your interpretation of the constitution and the way society works,

It is not just our interpretation it is the interpretation of those who wrote and founded this country! We have ample writings of what they intended and meant and socialist democracy was not it, just because the history revisionist have tried to reinterpreted it and you swallowed their BS hook line and sinker is no reason to ignore the historical truths of how this nation was set up

instead of voting which you will insist is a waste of time you would rather see the overthrow of our entire political system.

Absolutely the current political system is illegitimate. Socialist democracy is not what our country was founded on and is repugnant to our constitution.

What about us on the left who are angry at the government but would prefer to fix it than overthrow it?

If you want to be a commie that is fine but the problem is you all think you should be able to force the rest of us to participate in your supposed socialist utopia and also pay for it.

What about us after your revolution, what are we supposed to do? You don't think, that's the problem. People have lost their minds and are so worried about making America into what they see is right they will blatantly disregard everyone.

You just don't seem to get it. Any time you force people to do something against their will they have the right to resist and defend themselves. It is not just a matter of a difference of opinion it is a matter of you stealing the fruits of our labors against our will to support your communist programs. If you steal you are a thief and will be dealt with as all thieves period. Let that sink in! I don't care if you think you have a majority it still does not give you the right to force us to conform to your communist society that steals from us. That was the whole purpose of limited government to prevent the majority/mob from stealing using the power of government.

The right needs to stop NOW! You must stop, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, etc...

You're really stuck on the right left paradigm aren't you. I despise both Beck and Palin. So what side do you think I am on? This whole paradigm is what they use to keep you busy being angry and distracted while they steal you blind and appease some of you by giving you a few crumbs of thier spoils in the way of some socialist program.

Wake up and smell the coffee man, what do you have against taking personal responsibility for yourself instead of expecting government to steal from your neighbors to give you something you could not provide for yourself? Don't you realize the reason most people feel like they can't provide certain things for themselves is because government has somehow intervened in that market and unnaturally forced prices up and out of reach so you will have to come groveling to them for help?

They want to open up a can of worms that they could never understand. They are inciting a revolution or a civil war. Please just stop it now! This is out of control and they need to stop before it's too late. I don't want to live in a Tea Party paradise, just like the overwhelming majority of Americans don't either.

I don't want to live in a communist paradise where there fruits of my labors are up for grabs by any commie that thinks they need them. In my world you will be responsible for yourself any charity anyone receives will be given voluntarily and not forced by government. Anything more then that is theft and plunder will not be tolerated. If you have a problem with that you best consider moving to Europe. Also I doubt most of America agrees with you but even if they do it doesn't matter the mob does not have the right to steal or force period!

I also want to make it clear that if there is to be a revolution or civil war because of your total disregard for anyone besides yourself I will fight you back. The left will fight just as hard as you. If you want your revolution it won't just be the government you are fighting you will have to fight the left because we damn sure won't go quietly. We will fight you from Phoenix to Washington. We won't back down, I won't back down. This country belongs to us, all American people, not just you and your political ideology. You better be ready for us to fight you, it won't be as easy as you wish.

Good luck! Thieves and those who insist they be allowed to steal and force us against our will get thier just deserts. Some vote does not grant you privileges of theft

Originally posted by GBP/JPY
misior, you can do better than that, wheres the love.
where's the facts and logic? think like a big person, are you in Seattle? just curious.
you're this close to having the truth, but read and research a little more.Jefferson has some quotes for you, would you be amenable to thinking what the founders spoke? then Andrew Jackson said some awakening details.it's true i love you, do you love me?

I have read a lot of quotes by Thomas Jefferson and surprisingly I believe he was one of the greatest US presidents. I am against the government and how corrupt and corporate it is, but revolution will only make things worse. Please just read history, there were only a few successful revolutions that did not lead to another revolution, a dictator, or social/economic collapse. The American Revolution was 1 of those revolutions and it succeeded, but this is not the same thing.

"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think" -Adolf Hitler

We need to stop relying on the government to make things peachy keen again. Those days are over. Self reliance is the key.

reply to post by hawkiye


How typical of a 'constitution lover' to paint me as a communist. Then say we live in a social democracy. That's just hilarious!

The problem is that in America the culture is pure selfishness and anything short of me-me-me is considered socialism and communism. The founding fathers made Americas constitution the way it is because we were farmers and lived in the country. We did take care of each other voluntarily and there was no me-me-me bulls**t. That is not the case today, today it's about me-me-me and of course you will support libertarianism which means I will be selfish and I will allow you to be selfish too, the law will be that everyone's allowed to be selfish to make sure I can always keep what I have.

Socialism means caring for other people and we don't interpret taxation with representation as theft, but of course you won't agree because you will bitch and cry about someone taking your money. Why don't you ask all the libertarian countries are doing? Somalia seems like a good place to start or even Estonia. Of course we all know those two countries are succeeding.

Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by hawkiye

 

That is not the case today, today it's about me-me-me and of course you will support libertarianism which means I will be selfish and I will allow you to be selfish too, the law will be that everyone's allowed to be selfish to make sure I can always keep what I have.

And this is exactly why America and the rest of the world will spiral down to the road of destruction. Need I say more?

If these United States of America were to become free overnight, with original citizenship and constitution restored, America would find herself facing the combined military prowess of Europe, China, and Russia bearing down upon her.

The problem is worldwide and so also must the solution be.

Democrats and Republicans are merely a real-world utilization of Hegelian dialectic, of thesis vs. antithesis to bring forth synthesis.

It is a single party with two "opposing" factions, both controlled by the same people by way of the Council on Foreign Relations, which in itself is a small extension of a much more omnipresent power structure.