Wiki Leaks: Video Of Government Shooting Journalists

Originally posted by diamount
This was clearly a breach in the Geneva convention and thus the pilots (and the officer giving the order to engage) must be punished, a dishonorable discharge and jail time should do the trick.

Geneva Conventions do not apply here due to implications of "war on terror", in which everyone is potential enemy. There were admitted incidents like these before in Iraq but Geneva Conventions never apply... it was discussed on ATS many times before.

Here's more about Geneva Conventions and "war on terror":
Applicability of the Geneva Conventions and Protocols Additional

Since several men were identified as armed "enemy insurgents", wrongly or not, Geneva contentions do not apply. International laws... right.

I've updated the blog post in the OP to include a link to the videos that have been released.

If there's a mod that reads this, please update the OP post to include this as the first line of the post since I'm no longer able to edit it.

"Update: The Wiki Leaks video has been released, see the linked blog post for details."

Originally posted by hungrydirt

Originally posted by hotbakedtater

Yeah, silly them, bringing their children who live in this town with them on a shooting spree.

A photo shooting spree.

Well, one thing we can do to make sure this mess is one day resolved is to not twist the facts as you've blatantly done here. There is never a single shred of anything in the video that points to the children having any relation to the news team. Their parents, for whatever reason, wrong or right, put their children in a situation where multiple people were being liquidated by an Apache war machine. Again, people with no interest in uncovering the truth because they can't see past their own stupid political agendas are doing nothing to help figure this situation out.

And you're glad for the "hype"? So you would use the death of the children as a means to an end for your own personal convictions? The hypocrisy in this thread is unbelievably overwhelming. Good day ladies and gentlemen.

[edit on 5-4-2010 by hungrydirt]

Actually the van was following the other van, they were part of the group.

edited video page in OP blog post to also include MSNBC interview.

Its embedded video.

reply to post by mnemeth1


It appears the video is all over MSN, now...

Google links

I watched the full video. It was extremely disturbing just how little value is given to the life of foreigners (as viewed by Americans that is.) I may be living in a dream world but the role of the Apache pilots should have been to spot suspects and lead the troops in where proper assessment and handling would be possible. This would allow the suspects to surrender when challenged or else be taken down legitimately. If the suspects and others start firing on the advancing troops, then you have a firefight and the Apache's overwhelming firepower can quickly be brought to bear on the bad guys.

You'd think lessons would have been learned from all of the wedding parties that we bombed into oblivion after they traditionally fired off rounds in celebration. These people aren't Americans and shouldn't be judged and then executed by our standards.

As for the building destroyed by missiles after suspects entered it, there's no justification for it. They weren't attacking anyone and had not been positively identified as aggressors. They were suspects - probably innocent Iraqis who had never invaded another country on a trumped up WMD charge - and if you add them to the total of innocent bystanders already in the building or passing by, you have a lot of unjustified deaths.

The folks in my home state of Georgia are convinced that the rest of the world hate Americans and are out to kill them at every opportunity. Even if they were wrong when the war started, they are probably right NOW!

My brother served 12 months in Iraq at about the time of this incident and has just recently returned from Afghanistan. He spoke before about the rules of engagement that prevent soldiers from pursuing suspects if they've dropped any weapon that they might have been carrying. He found it frustrating but fully understood the important reasons behind it.

As stated before, the Apache crew were obviously detached from the human element and eager to give their armament an airing. What we don't see is the video recording of the CIA/Blackwater teams firing on suspects using drones from control centers back in the states. Talk about detachment! I wonder if they sometimes forget that they are targeting real people?

I concur with the other commenters who say that because war is hell, we shouldn't be in the situation of waging illegal and unjustifiable wars in lands where we have no legal business being. When Russia was occupying Afghanistan, we all were convinced that it was the Red Peril on the move.

Little did we know that our government wanted them out of the way so that they could take over.

S & F is good, but what if that isn't enough? Are we satisfied that we have done everything within our power, to help the cause?

Good, now we can go back to sleep.

The only thing troubling me is that what are they trying to cover up by allowing this to be discussed?

Originally posted by JohnySeagull
reply to post by butcherguy

 

I don't think you realise the implications this has.

Just what are the implications here.
The military slides out easy.
I noticed that they said everyone followed the rules of engagement.
Maybe they will have a Congressional investigation..... maybe a military scapegoat gets a slap on the wrist.
Maybe nothing at all will come of it, I doubt the rules of engagement will change.
Face it. The video got released. Our RULERS will not let us do anything about it.

I wish that something happens to prove me wrong.

Originally posted by SassyCat

Originally posted by diamount
This was clearly a breach in the Geneva convention and thus the pilots (and the officer giving the order to engage) must be punished, a dishonorable discharge and jail time should do the trick.

Geneva Conventions do not apply here due to implications of "war on terror", in which everyone is potential enemy. There were admitted incidents like these before in Iraq but Geneva Conventions never apply... it was discussed on ATS many times before.

Here's more about Geneva Conventions and "war on terror":
Applicability of the Geneva Conventions and Protocols Additional

Since several men were identified as armed "enemy insurgents", wrongly or not, Geneva contentions do not apply. International laws... right.

No my friend! the insane pilot wrongly/falsely or mistakenly? called in the men as armed men to the air controller to get permission to engage, especially in the case with the black van - therefore the 4th Geneva Covention article 3 is still valid.

The pilot & crew were never threatened or fired upon by these men on the ground.

Just listen to the warmongering gung ho pilot/gunner again!

The case of those people and children in the black van is a warcrime!

Then you can spin this anyway you like - this was bloody murder!

The gunsight tracks two of the men, identified by WikiLeaks as the Reuters news staff, as the pilots wrongly identify their cameras as an AK-47 rifle and a grenade launcher.

Major Shawn Turner, a spokesman for US Central Command, said that an investigation into the incident shortly after it occurred found that US forces were not aware of the presence of the news staffers and thought they were engaging armed insurgents.

"We regret the loss of innocent life, but this incident was promptly investigated and there was never any attempt to cover up any aspect of this engagement," Major Turner said.

He conceded that during the engagement the helicopter crew mistook a camera for a rocket-propelled grenade launcher.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

So the latest official cover-up story/disinformation from Central Comand is that they mistook a camera for a rocket-propelled grenade launcher.

So these poor men were killed for carrying a tripod and cameras, and "some" AK47 could be explained with people who had permission to carry them in their work as body guards for the journalists and flim crew for all I know!

This is vile! there are no excuses! especially not in the case of the black van, this was murder plain and simple!

[edit on 6-4-2010 by Chevalerous]

This video shows us just how severe the lack of accountability in military operations have been replaced with false and fictitious reasons for engaging just anyone and everyone for the sake of having something to do and or someone to kill just for the evil thrill it gives the demons doing such evil.

Someone, anyone to kill has become the past time and those that are being trained to this standard, will become the willing killers of women, children, the disabled and the elderly in America when they return to their promotion and their new mission to defeat and kill all Americans.

When people ask where do these evil murders come from? I would say they come from your neighborhoods and are shown in the military that killing someone can be a thrill to remind yourself that you have all the power over life and death and since death is what these idiots want to see, they then engage is make believe excuses for killing others, even if it includes innocent women and children.

While we can judge their actions as evil, I wouldn't be surprised if most of these so called killers are mostly devoid of a belief in God. Just a guess.

Thanks for the posting.

reply to post by SassyCat


Technicalities.

Whatever happened here was severe misconduct and must be punished, they made absolutely no effort to verify they carried weapons as described... they clearly had a quality zoom when they zoomed on the van.

Hey, just wanted to point of that I haven't seen much mention of the 40 min version. I have not watched the 17 min version, only the full 40 min version.

My question is, did any one else notice, when they sent the first Hellfire missile into the triangular building, the civilian walking on the sidewalk in front of the building, seemingly unaware of any danger, suddenly blown away, engulfed in the explosion when the building was hit... then, a couple minutes later, similar to the van situation, it looks like there are civilians approaching the blown out building, climbing through the rubble to potentially look for survivors inside, --- only to be hit again by another Hellfire missile... soon followed by a third Hellfire missile?

My question is... are these the actual rules of engagement? We kill indiscriminately? We patrol the streets with choppers and use cannons to take out anyone holding a rifle? Is it the rules of engagement to then kill any first responders to our attacks?

Iraqi's have been living with our botched bombings, so I imagine it's not unthinkable that moments after an explosion hits a building, concerned Iraqi's might venture out and try to help potentially innocent people who are hurt... and these concerned citizens may be thinking, with life hanging in the balance, time is of the essence to save innocent Iraqi civilians.

So is it part of our Rules of Engagement to ignore this basic human compassion, and basically if we blow up a building from a mile away, and concerned citizens of Iraq venture out of their homes to assist wounded, we go ahead and send in another missile to blow 'em all to hell?

Anyone else notice that? Please let me know if I'm wrong in my perception of the events...

Some of you express surprise about the content of the video or the subject overall, you must be young. Study the Vietnam War, the similarities are astonishing.

For those who are tired of hearing the Vietnam comparison, as I have heard here and there, I offer the American-Philippine War from round about 100 years past.

I think this is the only TV coverage in the US so far.

reply to post by diamount

Yeah, technicalities. The video we are seeing doesn't portray character of few bad man, it shows a wider picture of warfare in Iraq. The point of the video was not to demonstrate vast powers of Geneva Conventions, which do not even apply here.

Anyways, people that did this didn't get Geneva Conventions on their backs:


Believe me, there was not a forensic investigation to determine who broke Geneva Conventions here either:


Don't think I for some weird reason support any of these. I just know that no conventions will ever return dead children and I know these things will go on. There's a reason your local PD doesn't use Apache helicopters when dealing with armed drug bosses with their private armies.

While at it, here's another video where you'll never see faces of all the dead people, it is impossible to count the dead after this:


[edit on 6/4/2010 by SassyCat]

It was a bit ironic, surreal... or just plain wrong... but just after showing my wife the 40min version last night, she decides understandably, that she would like to watch something else on TV, something lighter... So, I turn on the TV, and the first thing that comes up is a TV ad for the new video game Bad Company 2... depicting stuff that looked very similar to the footage we just watched, fully destructable environments, buildings in middle eastern settings completely destroyed by Apache helicopters and RPGs, military trucks driving down the street, blowing everything to hell, bodies flying like rag dolls, and the whole montage of carnage set to fast paced adrenaline pumping music... F**king Rock'n Roll, man....

The kids manning the guns in those real war videos kill for fun, because it IS fun! It's GTA, man, Call of Duty, Modern Warfare... destructible environments and flying body parts.

It's 'Call of Duty' for the ultimate hardcore gamers where everything is destructible, everything can be killed, and the honor and accolades for doing so is real and commended by actual Military superiors. PS3 and Xbox Trophies have nothing compared to the actual stars and stripes awarded for real-world frags.

Pretty sick.

reply to post by spiritualzombie


The makers of these games should put in rewards for being a good soldier in the game and not just a killing machine. Adherence to the Geneva Convention should get a gamer extra points, not shooting the wounded.

WikiLeaks, a website that publishes anonymously sourced documents, has released video footage of what it says is a US military attack on Iraqi civilians in Baghdad.

economycollapse.blogspot.com...

WikiLeaks editor interviewed on Apache combat video: No excuse for US killing civilians


economycollapse.blogspot.com...

Thanks to Jane for the second link with the Wikileaks man. Now I have to go and look for information as to whether or not the Washington Post reporter did have access to the video prior to Wikileaks, and did nothing with it, or could not decrypt it, or whatever.