Health Care Law Signals US Empire Decline?

Health Care Law Signals US Empire Decline?

www.cnbc.com

"The passage of the health care law shows that the US empire is declining because it illustrates the fact that people expect the state to take care of them"

(visit the link for the full news article)

For the last few days since "Mr. Hope and Change" signed the new health care legislation into law, I have seen several posts from people who are talking as if this is all just a wonderful thing and we will all be the better for its passage.

I have also seen responses to criticism of the bill, responses to a couple of my own postings critical of the bill, many of these responses are saying we are all over reacting...that Canada and Europe have had this kind of system for years and it's so wonderful. I was shocked to read one of our members postings talking about how in Canada she "broke some bones" and she's never had to pay for it. Wow...as if Canada's high tax base, taxes taken out of everyone's pay checks each week isn't "paying for it".

I am beginning to realize that indeed there is a failure to communicate between us "haters" of healthcare reform and the "lovers" of this massive change. So I thought it would be constructive to list some of the new taxes that we will all be privileged to pay at this point. Dumb taxes on our activities, our consumption, and our lives. This article wraps up my fears very well as in relation to our nations continued decline.

Remember these new taxes on each individual are all for the good of the collective. We no longer matter as persons but now are nothing more than a gear in the machine of the Federal machine.

Taxes on Healthcare Savings Accounts:
” The bill in 2011 places new restrictions on what can be purchased using special savings accounts funded with pre-tax dollars including health savings accounts. Improper withdrawals from the accounts also would be hit with a new 20 percent tax."

Taxes on Tanning Salons:
"Consumers who frequent tanning salons would pay a 10 percent excise tax"

Taxes on Wheel Chairs:
"..those who buy devices such as wheelchairs would pay a 2.9 percent excise tax."

Taxes on Prescription Drugs:
" Drug makers may pass on a $3 billion annual fee."

Taxes (Fines) for those uninsured:
" individuals who don’t purchase insurance would be subject to a fine of $325 in 2015 and $695 in 2016. Individuals may be subject to a charge equal to as much as 2.5 percent of their income in 2016, if the total is greater than the flat payment."

Source: Business Week
Link: www.businessweek.com...

Taxes on Insurance Plans:
" The final House-Senate compromise would change that--eventually. Health coverage in excess of $10,200 for individual plans and $27,500 for family plans would be hit with a 40 percent excise tax. Keep in mind the tax is only on the amount in excess of the floor, so with an $11,000 individual plan, only $800 would be taxed (the 40 percent rate would yield the government $320)."

Tax Increases on Income:
" Singles earning more than $200,000 and couples making more than $250,000 (in modified adjusted gross income) would pay an extra 0.9 percent of their wage income. Plus, they’d pay an entirely new tax of 3.8 percent on investment income. This effectively raises the rate on capital gains and dividends from 15 percent to nearly 19 percent."

Source: Christian Science Monitor
Link: www.csmonitor.com...

No More Deductions for Employers Who Provide Medicare Medicare Drug Coverage:
" Elimination, after this year, of a deduction employers now take for providing Medicare Part D prescription drug coverage to their retirees to the extent that the federal government subsidizes the coverage."

Taxes Increased (Fines) on Healthcare Savings Accounts:
"Doubling the penalty for nonqualified distributions from health savings accounts, to 20%, beginning in 2011."

Limiting Contributions To Healthcare Savings Accounts (More Out Of Pocket Expenses):
"A limit on the amount that employees can contribute to health care flexible spending accounts to $2,500 a year. Under the House package of changes, the cap won’t take effect until 2013."

Source: Kiplinger
Link: www.kiplinger.com...

These are just a few of the new taxes we are going to have to pay, and I know there are many here who will say "These don't even effect me, so why should I care?" I don't even have to say anything in response to such a posting...we all know that taxes will eventually effect us even if we don't tan or make over $200,000 a year.
Those we work for will have to compensate for their increased costs and that means eventual layoffs, increased prices at the markets, a hurt economy.

Finally as I was watching the news this morning, they reported on the new fight we are all going to have to watch. Immigration Reform. While at this moment illegal aliens cannot benefit from the new healthcare reform package, the immigration reform passage will put an estimated 10 million more on the new healthcare reform programs, and that's not including all their families. And apparently those are conservative numbers.

Anyway have a great day in our new world of "Hope and Change".


www.cnbc.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

No it doesn't at all. This health care bill starts this country back on the road to being the best nation on earth. A nation of compassion and care. Don't be fooled by rich insurance companies who want to scare you so they can keep milking the people. With this legislation we on our way to regaining what Bush flushed away for all of us.

The insurance companies now have the complete force of government to guarantee people must contract their so-called services.

In what way is this a good thing?

We have heard a lot about the evil insurance companies, but now we are legally compelled to become endebted to them....

In what way is that a good thing?

We are told that now (almost) everybody will be 'insured'. But 'insured' doesn't mean 'healthy.'

And since there is no more 'consumership' factor, we are automatically - at birth - an 'asset' of the insurance companies.

That's a good thing?

Profit control was the only real solution.... but that would be 'wrong.'

In my feeble opinion, the "insurance" industry is just another facade of the central banking cartel... they get to gamble with (more of) our money... or should I say debt... which we are now BORN INTO.

Living (legally) off the grid is now an impossibility. They will need to identify everyone - this will begin the national ID card push... just like Social Security heralded in the IRS's current tax collection scheme.

A good thing? Sorry, it still feels wrong to me.

reply to post by damwel


That was a very passionate yet poory supported response...sorry no offense intended.

reply to post by damwel

No it doesn't at all. This health care bill starts this country back on the road to being the best nation on earth. A nation of compassion and care. Don't be fooled by rich insurance companies who want to scare you so they can keep milking the people. With this legislation we on our way to regaining what Bush flushed away for all of us.

I had to repost this comment just in case someone decides to modify it.

OP, does the above comment resemble what you were talking about?

Uninformed opinion-This bill is great! It is gumballs, rainbows AND lollipops.

Informed opinion-if the bill mandates we use the exact system in place and institutes more bureaucracies, does this not just raise the cost?

S&F





[edit on 3/24/2010 by endisnighe]

reply to post by Rockstrongo37


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Health Care Law Signals US Empire Decline?

www.cnbc.com

"The passage of the health care law shows that the US empire is declining because it illustrates the fact that people expect the state to take care of them"
(visit the link for the full news article)

Only time will tell,


i see the HCR Law as the decisioned way to Rebuild the American economic structure,

the dot.com bubble failed, the credit-expansion Housing bubble failed,
the ongoing derivatives bubble is still stealthly going on,
the bank & finance industry had to be given Trillions in infusions of capital...
the 8 & more years of our Eur-Asian military expeditions by troops and paid mercenaries...

Now....those are the things that just about got the American Empire to collapse.


the next 4-5 years as the health-care reforms are rolled out, are the beginnings ofreinflating the whole workforce towards full employment (-4%)our nations credit/bond ratings will retain the AAA ratings with all this new guaranteed flow of wealth through the sieve of taxation and into the heath-care spectrum of industries.

this is the paradigm shift, that the 2012'ers were talking about,

The USA is just now joining the rest of the Western world in this modified socialism of the health care industry thanks to the lobbied house$ of Congre$$ and our own President Øbama. ...


thanks, fellow indentured servants-to-America
( change ) is indeed under way

Anyone else find the irony in people calling the US an empire, falling or not. Yet they are crying that healthcare for all is ending it?

I am disturbed that anyone, especially Americans, call it an Empire. It is the US of A, nothing more, nothing less.

Yet you insist on calling it an EMPIRE, but cry that it is falling into ruin because people will have healthcare?

reply to post by nixie_nox


You are completely missing the point of this thread. Im not going to argue over the symantics of the use of "empire" in the article...the issue here is the decline of our nation and the role of this new legislation has in our decline. I believe I have provided several examples of the new taxes that are going to aid in our downfall.

reply to post by damwel


You know I am pretty much taken by the statements in your post, tell me please, do you have any idea of what the HCR is all about?.

Or you are just been sarcastic.

I am just extremely curious.

Give damwel a break.

The issue here is that the bill does give insurance company more power, but I don't see it as the signal of US decline.

We tend to forget that we were already in a big mess before this bill. This bill just increase the size of the hole we are in.

Fortunately, these bills can be amended and fixed to work for the people.

Unfortunately, I don't think our government is committed to that cause.

reply to post by St Udio
Pie in the sky!

Good luck with your hope!

reply to post by jam321


No, I am beyond giving people that are clueless brakes, I am darn angry, I voted for the crap that is now in congress and in the presidential seat.

The whole passing of the HCR is the last desperate attempts to save a nation that is been in decline for a long time already, but oppressing the people to keep the wealth of those on the top is not the way things will work, because that is what is going on in America right now, the working class is been reaped apart for profit margins and gains while our incompetent governemnt system is relegating the burden of the debt to the citizens



[edit on 24-3-2010 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043


Trust me, I remember how adamant you were about him.

But to be honest, McCain wouldn't have fared any better.

I am just as upset as you, but we need solutions and we both know the solutions are not going to come from Washington or any of the two parties.

reply to post by jam321


I know, I am no voting anymore, I already am distancing myself from the corporate run government that is ruining this nation because of greed.

We all will pay for it, I am doing more meditation now to keep myself calm that I have done since the darn bailout to the rich started.



If a simple housewife like me is ready to take the streets at last minute call I can only imagine the rest of the nation and the millions of angry Americans feed up with what goes on in Washington.

Oh good grief. The United States started to decline in the 1980s when corporation started shipping manufacturing overseas. I won't debate the cause of it as that's another whole topic.

The health care reform means many things, but it has nothing to do with the welfare queens of our society or the decline of this country. The people that will benefit the most are the hard working poor. Those that have full time jobs that can not afford insurance, but make too much for Medicaid. These are the people working away at the stores, bars and restaurants in this country.

reply to post by Kaploink


No it doesn't the bill is so full of crap that is nothing but empty promises while gouging by mandatory law to take money our of their paychecks for the private insurance companies that the bill has not means to regulate or enforce at all.

Don't you read the bill? but hey wait a moment the fat rats are still working on it this week before it goes again for more votes on the changes that people have no clue what they are because is the freebies for the big pharma and private insurance now that the bill is been signed.

Wake up and keep up with the news, the bill is a going to be a burden to the same people that is suppose to help.

And for those that think Obama is sending checks to pay for the HCR if they can not afford it, just keep hoping.

The bill doesn't include regulations on deductibles and neither out of pocket expenses, in Massachusetts the same deductibles and out of pocket expenses is keeping many people unable to use the health insurance.

Wake up America.

Many Massachusetts residents forgo health care because they can’t afford it.

A 2009 study by the state of Massachusetts found that:

•21% of residents forgo medical treatment because they can’t afford it, including 12% of children
•18% have health insurance but can’t afford to use it

firedoglake.com...

The bill doesn't regulate private insurance companies at all.

It only tells them that they most offer insurance to anybody, what kind or how much coverage is neither been regulated.