The American way. The Right way. THE ONLY WAY!

reply to post by intrepid


Complaining about "those arrogant Americans", is an act of arrogance. What you have stated in your piece is that because we don't see the world through "your" lense, then it makes us arrogant and ignorant. I'm sorry if I can't quite see the nirvana in your culture or in that of Europe or Australia. If you want to wear that mantle, then step up to the plate. Be the most charitable, be the first in and the last out of a disaster, give the most. Instead of calling us ignorant or arrogant prove your superiority. Your cultures are ethno and egocentric, you don't even provide for your own defense, instead you sit back and let others do the heavy lifting while you look down your noses from your seat of higher morality. Your claims of greater evolution are laughable and nauseating. You let us do the dirty work while you bask in moral elitism, and your happy to have it so.

According to you and yours, utopia is just around the corner in your superior cultures. You really need to take off the rose colored glasses my friend's. You might also want to consider that a majority of Americans want no part of your world view. We detest the path your going down and the path of arrogant progressive elitism that is being shoved down our throats by corrupt politicians.
If you don't like our level of disgust and sounding off, then don't listen. You should know that things are going to get a whole lot rougher and the level of anger is going to increase over here. A majority of Americans are beyond tired of being abused by an overly intrusive government and are beginning to push back. Get used to it and stop thinking that your collapsing cultures are any better or more evolved.

YouSir

the problem with the world is the possession and association to ownership.

I am also a Canadian, but..

using words like: "My Country"... creates boundaries. Just because one lives in a geographipc location, we would not have to defend the stupidity associated with it.

By the same token, there are many Americans who totally disagree with the American killing of people of the world.

The Canadian government does not care about its people - the Canadian banks own the people - worst than the Americans. The Canadian way of life has crippled the average person and submitted them to the few who own the country.

As a Canadian pays half their paycheck (yes that is true) - 43% tax plus after we pay for the tax, we are taxed on whatever we buy - GST. That is easily half the pay is Tax.

If the Canadian pays that much out of the pocket, where is the healthcare benefit? There is a 3 month waiting period for operations.

Please, let's work together on problems. Let;s not create boundaries.

Think of yourself as "Citizen of the world" and your religion as "To do good". With that, you can unify the dissension that TPTB are creating. We can solve these problems with the right frame of mind.

Originally posted by gaurdian2012
excellent post my canuck brother. americans think, no believe they are the center of the planet possibly the universe. there arrogance is there greatest weakness they will fail because they percieve themselves better than the rest of the world. they are in for a rude awakening, there empire will fall like all the others before them. they are allready bankrupt. they have 2 wars they cant afford there banks need bailouts there cars are crap. sorry to offend but anywhere you go on the planet they are hated. next will come CIVIL WAR. i just hope they dont invade canada

When TSHTF this is US Northern Command's purview (taken from
www.the-rabbits-hole.com...):

USNORTHCOM’s specific mission:

USNORTHCOM anticipates and conducts Homeland Defense and Civil Support operations within the assigned area of responsibility to defend, protect, and secure the United States and its interests
USNORTHCOM’s AOR includes air, land and sea approaches and encompasses the continental United States, Alaska, Canada, Mexico and the surrounding water out to approximately 500 nautical miles. It also includes the Gulf of Mexico, the Straits of Florida, portions of the Caribbean region to include The Bahamas, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands. The commander of USNORTHCOM is responsible for theater security cooperation with Canada, Mexico, and The Bahamas.

So, does this constitute an "invasion"?

A couple of things I would like my American cousins to consider:

If there ever does come a time that there is a need to restart society due to some catastrophe, please consider parliamentary democracy.

I keep hearing how there was no bipartisan support for the Health Bill and that there is less than 50% support for it in. Well, in Canada with three (four?) major political parties, there is virtually no time that we have 50%+ support politically for anything. However, we still get things done, especially when one party wins a majority. Even if that majority is only 38% of the electorate, they still have 5 years to push through their agenda.

Sometimes that sucks. Consider the left-wing NDP winning a majority in Ontario in 1990. However, it also works extremely well; consider the Progressive Conservatives enacting Free Trade legislation with the USA in 1988-89. It's been great for Canada!

The US Democrats won the election. Should they not be able to enact their agenda? Should the GOP win next time, they can repeal; although Alex Jones claims they wouldn't anyway.

The other thing is electronic balloting. What's wrong with taking a pencil and marking "X" for your candidate. There's a hard copy, no question (for the most part) about for whom you voted and generally less chance of a corrupted process.

Anyway, as a Canadian living in a border community, I love my American friends. They have a great country to be saved from TPTB, they ARE the most generous people on the planet and if they seem a little insular, what the heck. We have our share of arrogance here, too.

God Bless America and Canada!

As a Canadian I find myself entirely sympathetic to the causes of the our American neighbours and and the host of problems we Collectively face. We have had a distinguishably separate upbringing (melting pot compared to multi-culturalism), yet there is no lack of cultural mixing either side of the political fence. There are neighbourhoods of ethnic groups here (also), as like attracts to like, plus our inter-racial mixes. It's been our countries policy to enforce this mix of culture as a positive celebration of all peoples under one flag, and a high crime to target peoples based on the colour of their skin. This means that, since birth, we have had our media, education, social structure, criminal justice and political systems revolving around our Non-ethnocentric views, to the point that it is hopefully a heartfelt acceptance of other peoples and cultures as part of our society. I believe that many Americans are evolved past these points, but many have had to fight for that, whereas we had the advantage of being conditioned past them. That effectively foregoes any egotism we might have on the particular matter, since it was a "gift" of being born here. On that note, no matter what world order is arriving, this embracing of other people (as compared to merely "accepting" them) regardless of colour can only be a positive. There is a genuine warmth here, and that is not to say that it doesn't exist in America either.

More on-topic, I accept American patriotism, and hope they'll accept Canadian patriotism where it exists. We both have incredible countries in many ways! Yet overblown patriotism does involve pride, egocentricity, and arrogance, which is only blindness. Ethnic acceptance is only one element of a Collective Belief System an individual will hold, and one which I'd encourage in anyone. The fact that certain cultures may hold pre-dispositions towards certain attitudes we find inhumane, or counter-productive still doesn't excuse us to label Americans as "arrogant", or Canadians as "egocentric", it simply means we may have to work a little harder to see past peoples attitudes and pinpoint the problems involved.

"For every thousand who hack at the leaves of evil, only one hacks at the root." - Walden Pond, Thoreau

I enjoyed reading the disclaimer from SO in the (American) Political Madness forum, it's not about Dems or Republicans, nor Americans or Canadians. The devil is always in the details, so let's do away with generalizations that lend no light to subjects. More study, less posting!
Conspiracy is a great way to uncover new truths, but on the downside it can also become a bit of a compulsive drive that short-circuits patience and prevents the mind from being able to relax enough for proper research on a subject. I've found great benefit from reading a lot of history lately, modern issues proving such a compulsion that I'm looking into issues and societies I never held an interest in before to grasp the ideologies behind movements. We are in an evil thrall whose goads and aims find their roots in History, even if their modern propogation shows us a much different face. From there we find our solace in understanding the philosophy and religious significances they import to modern culture, and can address them from an enlightened point of view. Fair? Here's one root I hold as valid. What it lacks in fleshy details it makes up for in succintness, and invites further research.

members.tripod.com...

Originally posted by drwizardphd
reply to post by endisnighe

 

With the exception of the well-traveled and well-educated members of society, we are incredibly ignorant of world affairs in this country.

I take exception to this i am neither well traveled or well educated per say, but i like to think that i have a vary fair and understanding look on the world and its different charector flaws. Im not going to sit here and say that the USA has the best policies but they are currently the most viable option for me. I will honestly say there are things in this country that people would consider the "American way" that i strongly disagree with but i would also disagree with 90% of all other options for the same issues.

i guess my biggest issue with your comment is this the phrase higher educated to me anyways gives off the image of college educated people i for one am not a college educated person i am your average joe schmo per say and well i think i am fair and balanced on my views on the world.

but that is just my OP and maybe im just "rutarded" (i know i misspelled this one)

thank you and good day/night in whatever part of this universe your in.

Originally posted by Clark Savage Jr.We, the US, realize we are hated, despised , resented, maligned. We also realize that a percentage of those opinions of us are warranted.

That's just part of the brainwashing. Making US citizens think everyone outside their borders hates them and is the enemy.

I can say as a Canadian i've never seen outright hatred for the US by anyone. We do tend to poke fun at you from time to time, but it's not mean spirited. Just what you'd expect between any neighbors or friends.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by Risen]

reply to post by intrepid


America is a mass of contridiction and paradox. We are apt to say or do anything in a given moment. The term mercurial comes to mind. We love to to toot our horn of freedom but the next moment we will be bashing the views of our own people with said horn. Spinning like a top, we have to be careful lest we pull to far in one direction or the other, because when we spin off axis bad things always happen.

In my youth I was very conservative and pro miliary, I served 4 years in the USN and was a Reagan republican. One day though things changed forever for me. You see I'm Gay and when I came to that realization I suddenly became a minority. In the blink of an eye so many rights and freedoms I took for granted took on a whole different light. I was not as equal as I once was. This point of view was cemented for me when I got a cute little pamphlet from the republican party telling me how Clinton should never be elected because he was going to let Gays serve openly in the military and even worse was going to let them adopt children!!!!

I still support a strong military but I don't support wars based on lies. I've traveled a bit and know the world outside America is a pretty darn cool place, yet there is no place like home. I can feel shame over prop 8 one moment and then be filled with pride when I read an article about a Sikh serving in the Army. I wish on the whole we were less uptight and that we were not so entrenched in our politics and religions.

Church and State divided and in God we trust.

If we are to live in balance we must fight polarization spawned by ignorance.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by Helmkat]

I know this much: There are plenty here in America that push their agenda on other countries, and I find it wrong. BUT, so many other countries are bitter and talk down about us as well, so I don't really understand what makes us the "bad guy" and everyone else the 'good guy?'

It's called being hypocritical. How about showing pride in your country by taking the high road? That's what I try and do. If you bash Americans because they bash other countries, you should probably move here because you have a hell of a lot more in common with us than you choose to believe.

What's the difference between Obama and Superman?

OBAMA OFFERS THE WORLD - Truth, Justice or the American Way.

Originally posted by true-life


As a Canadian pays half their paycheck (yes that is true) - 43% tax plus after we pay for the tax, we are taxed on whatever we buy - GST. That is easily half the pay is Tax.

If the Canadian pays that much out of the pocket, where is the healthcare benefit? There is a 3 month waiting period for operations.

how much do you have to make before you lose half your paycheck? I've never had my taxes take half of my whole paycheck...ever. of course i've only ever worked jobs that pay minimum wage or just above minimum. but out of say, a $600 paycheck, there would only be $75-$100 taken for tax, employment insurance, and vacation pay deduction...so i'd clear a little over $500, maybe $520

This is my personal thoughts on this. I do have a deep seeded patriotic sense and a deep pride for being an American. I do think that the "American way" is the best way, the only way...FOR ME. I would not dare to impose my way of life on an other country. I may disagree with the policies of other countries, but it is not my place to criticise them for it. Yes I will fire back against the Australians or Europeans that demand we set down our guns and join the bullet train to socialism, but at the end of the day, I respct thier opinions. I do not think that we should be policing the world, we should protect our interests, but every nation does that. If our brothers to the north want to embrace the progressive road to socialism, then fine, good journey, but do not attempt to call me ignorant or arrogant because I love my current way of life, in doing so, you show that you are subject to the same behavior you attempt to expose in Americans.

Just to clear up a little thing about free speech...if the state can tell you that what you are saying is inappropriate and therefore illegal, then you do not have free speech, you have censorship. If you have free speech someone has the freedom to express themselves, if you disagree with it, then you have the freedom to express yourself about it. It's a two way street, you have to take the good with the bad, you can not say that this group can not speak because it may offend someone or hurt someones poor feelings. Take for example the KKK, i personally despise them, can not agree with them on anything and wish they did not exist, however they do. Therefore they have the right to free speech just as anyone else. I do not agree with anything the say, but i will defend to my last breath thier right to say it.

Originally posted by intrepid
There are better ways of doing things. That's evolution of man. If you miss it isn't that a bad thing? You won't see it in your media. Be thankful for the Net and places like ATS. We're international, many different ideas. Start looking. Start thinking.

There is exactly one BEST form of government for each and every individual. And that form of government is going to be different. ONE and only one form of government leads to each individual being maximally happy. Would you agree? So you are exactly right I'm appalled about the disgusting trend for America to become just like every other country. Evolution doesn't work well from my perspective when America gets "inbred" with countries like Canada and the world ends up with a totally flat gene pool (no variety of legal systems... socialism in every single one). Intrepid, do you really think there is a one-size-fits-all government that works best for everyone?

Its great that you guys have evolved into something approaching a feudal system where each country is like a farm harvesting taxes for the master, who in turn treats his slaves really well and gives you equally sized plots of land in many cases and gives you socialist education ("dumbs you down" with "socialist obedience training") in school. From what I understand countries like France and Canada have masters that treat slaves like yourself just fantastic and that is a good thing. Clearly it works wonders for you. But for those of us who would rather die than live as slaves, what we want our genes to evolve into is maximum liberty at the expense of security. Clearly sacrificing freedom for security is what makes you happy Intrepid, so congratulations that you have found your heaven within my hell.

What form of government makes me happy is the idea of America that I was tricked as a child into thinking existed: a system of liberty and free enterprise. What many people want seems to be maximum freedom, and so what works for people like us is all laws that lead to maximum liberty to a threshold where order is hardly present but present none-the-less.

From my perspective, evolution of government will allow me to live into a non-violent and truly equal place where the same rules apply to a person who is a politician as a person who isn't. From my perspective, evolution involves into a non-violent place where charity isn't shoved down my throat at gun point as it is across Europe and in Canada. You've got security at the expense of liberty and that is what works for Canadians. It isn't what works for Americans because what makes you happy isn't what makes us happy.

Originally posted by jam321
Yes, I love the American way just as much as others love their British, Canadian, or Australian ways. But in the end, I really enjoy learning about other cultures above all.

You know that's good. But just to make a remark, the fact you are mentioning those specific nationalities says alot too, which I see many Americans doing. All english speaking countries count I guess, the rest is like vague or unknown.

Originally posted by Risen

Originally posted by Clark Savage Jr.We, the US, realize we are hated, despised , resented, maligned. We also realize that a percentage of those opinions of us are warranted.

That's just part of the brainwashing. Making US citizens think everyone outside their borders hates them and is the enemy.

I can say as a Canadian i've never seen outright hatred for the US by anyone. We do tend to poke fun at you from time to time, but it's not mean spirited. Just what you'd expect between any neighbors or friends.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by Risen]

Yeah that's true. Here in Holland we have a lot of American shows and programs to watch and many people love to go to the USA for holidays as well.

reply to post by truthquest


Too bad your comment could not be moved to right behind the OP.


Excellent breakdown of the way we both feel.


Thanks for that comment.

lowlife 187:
well put, someone finally says these words.

As much as I love America, there is some inflated national self-esteem that crops up with exactly the same words in the dialogue of a certain type of American person, it has been unaltered ever since I went there to live about 25 years ago. I call it nationalism - but curiously the type of person I am talking about will never use that word. Yet that is how classical political science calls it.

It seems like there are always such people. There will be ones in my children's generation too, which is absurd to me. And, I must highlight, there are always others who produce the best antidotes of the world precisely to this type of madness.

The madness consists of an unrecognized economic and military nationalism which borders on a Nazi type of superiority. Those who expose and oppose this from within are equipped with very good arguments though - from linguistics, philosophy, economics, etc. So we should look for the medicine for America's ills right there.

I could single out endisnighe as well, not because this poster is any worse than others but because his/her arguments are typical to the group I am pointing at.

No, America is not paying half of the world. Because I lived there for decades and I saw that most of the actual tangible valuable goods that people ever bought and sold were made in China, some of them in Hong Kong, Thailand and again others in nameless sweat shops.
I started to work from the products of my own hands in a craft market in the eighties, with Americans who wanted to be different from the average.
Pretty soon I was surrounded by people who were selling stuff made in Asia, undercutting my business. They mostly did not have the skills themselves to make the stuff they sold, mind you. And it was for OVER 500 % PROFIT. They said they would not even touch anything that has less than 100% profit on it. Now that is money made without producing any actual value. Same as most investors, lawyers, consultants etc. They all live on top of other people who actually cook, grow food, sew shoes, or console a child. In my judgement there in no other culture on earth where it is so accepted and natural that money should come from other people, out of nothing. It is not earned, it is "made". Let us just print some money and buy half of a third world nation with it...

What I experienced close up in my work for years day to day were not the big sharks, these were small-fry micro-entrepreneurs "outside the system." Imagine the mentality of Wall Street or corporate consultants.

This means that a predator mentality, a vampire type of existence is more natural and accepted mainstream than anywhere else in the world. There are entire ideologies to prop this up. You can see some repeated endlessly on these boards too. Luckily here it is not the majority.

There is very little left that is useful and real (valuable in most other parts of the world for the same price) that America actually produces these days. We still excel at films, TV, certain types of music, computer stuff, books and advertising. Most tangible articles, however, are bought from exploited countries and sold with several hundred percent of profit.

That profit is the basis of this unexplainable feeling superiority. My native born American friends like to analyze this as well - but then again, it is not the mainstream type I made friends with.

Let us face it, this screaming for privileges is not about freedom - a concept most people who grew up with cars, TV and chips do not actually know first-hand anyway. (People who risked their noses being broken in protests for civil rights or against the Vietnam War at least had a trial experience of "freedom.")

It is not based on freedom and the constitution, it is based upon riches and military power (which is more and more dictated by international corporations and not American national interests).
And some of those riches are undeserved. Wise Americans know this and point this out time and again. And some of these military campaigns are unjustified, morally nd humanly wrong. Again serving the rich and the privileged all around the world, and not the average Joe or Jane in the US - but the ideology of specialness and freedom is used to sell this bull* to the average Joe or Jane.

One of the best things about the US is actually its active and vocal intelligentsia, who have always been deeply critical of the economic elitism sold to the masses by clever manipulators in silver wraps as the "American way of life."

Self-criticism is one area where modern America has always excelled, jsut as the film industry. It is done in a witty, timely, multifaceted and educated fashion. The whole world can indeed learn from the way American intellectuals of all sorts (self-made, very educated, conspiracy theorist, internet pirate etc.).

Nationalism (based on undeserved wealth) is still strong though.

Let me point out that Germans were justified in the 1930's that their nation was superior in many ways - cultural production, industrial standards etc. - to most other nations of the Earth. As I grew up in love with American values and culture, my grnadparents grew up within the German Kulturkreis. As I am intolerant of US nationalism and right wing rhetoric that leads to it, my granparents never tolerated Hitler. As Germany started to pick on Jews and Communists, American mainstream now starts to pick on Islam and the third world.

Hope the parallels end there. Germany has America to straighten its back, so to speak. America has no one except the rest of the world - if ardent nationalism takes root.

We must learn to do things NOT out of power but morals and ecology and human consideration...

reply to post by intrepid


I thank you for this sir. There are many ways to think about the world and how we tackle issues. It only takes a small shift in consciousness. We only have to be open minded.

You know I like Americans but their political ideas sometimes grates on me. If they could just PLEASE get a working definition of socialism, capitalism and communism. For example calling your current government communist is just plain idiotic. I confess to having a great deal of confusion as to what American political theory is apart from small government and low taxes.

To get back to the OP. I ask myself where does the American on way come from? Three things come to mind.

1) American children seem very confident at an early age on the media. So is it their personal education to leads to the “one right way thinking”.

2) Is it a side effect of the cold war Which only recently finished. As this was be an antidote to the intellectual pretenses of the communists.

3) Or could it be the effect of a new country born of revolutionary zeal.

Some middle class brits do seem to have a bit of an attitude towards the Americans but them most of them have no friends in the USA. I find Americans a fascinating mix because they are so conservative yet spawned or nourished a number of progressive movements that shaped the world.

I do not believe America will go to fascism nor comminuism. They will remain social democrats.






[edit on 24-3-2010 by Tiger5]

Originally posted by devilishlyangelic23

Originally posted by true-life


As a Canadian pays half their paycheck (yes that is true) - 43% tax plus after we pay for the tax, we are taxed on whatever we buy - GST. That is easily half the pay is Tax.

If the Canadian pays that much out of the pocket, where is the healthcare benefit? There is a 3 month waiting period for operations.

how much do you have to make before you lose half your paycheck? I've never had my taxes take half of my whole paycheck...ever. of course i've only ever worked jobs that pay minimum wage or just above minimum. but out of say, a $600 paycheck, there would only be $75-$100 taken for tax, employment insurance, and vacation pay deduction...so i'd clear a little over $500, maybe $520

There's a lot of things about that post which make me scratch my head. He seems to actually be living in the fictional Canada invented by the US media.

I'd like to add that you only have waiting lists for operations that aren't vital. If it's anything serious you can expect to be rushed to surgery. I know i was.

reply to post by gaurdian2012


Well it may not be the countries government invading Canada; it will be the northerners running over the border to freedom! I want freedom but I am trapped on this side. Most of the people up in New England agree with me that Canada has more freedom, justice and equality than any state in the union. If we enter a civil war I am going to cross the border because it's better to live like an illegal alien in Canada than a legal citizen in a Tea Parties paradise.

[edit on 3/24/10 by Misoir]