How Dare You Mr. President and Congress...

It seems that most Americans....

Still don't have a clue what "socialism" is, FYI you all live in a society, so you're all socialists in a way ....you pay taxes, and you get services back, that's how it works. Don't like it, go live as a hermit in the woods....

Demonising socialism like it has been done in the states since the cold war era has only one effect: it makes you look incredibly dumb to the rest of the world. It makes you republicans look like a bunch of childish sore loosers.

Makes you wonder where were all these people when GWBush rammed the Partiot act trough America's throat....?

Take it from someone who has had the benefit of goverment healthcare for over 34 years in Belgium: it's a good thing.

reply to post by XyZeR

Originally posted by XyZeR
It seems that most Americans....

Still don't have a clue what "socialism" is, FYI you all live in a society, so you're all socialists in a way ....you pay taxes, and you get services back, that's how it works. Don't like it, go live as a hermit in the woods....

Demonising socialism like it has been done in the states since the cold war era has only one effect: it makes you look incredibly dumb to the rest of the world. It makes you republicans look like a bunch of childish sore loosers.

Makes you wonder where were all these people when GWBush rammed the Partiot act trough America's throat....?

Take it from someone who has had the benefit of goverment healthcare for over 34 years in Belgium: it's a good thing.




Being forced to pay a tax if we don't buy their insurance sounds like extortion and slavery to me;
does buying medical care vs getting taxed sound like a free world to you?

I dont care about what your vision for the future is;
all i see to total collapse;

[edit on 24-3-2010 by DjSharperimage]

reply to post by XyZeR

Originally posted by DjSharperimage

Originally posted by XyZeR
It seems that most Americans....

Still don't have a clue what "socialism" is, FYI you all live in a society, so you're all socialists in a way ....you pay taxes, and you get services back, that's how it works. Don't like it, go live as a hermit in the woods....

Demonising socialism like it has been done in the states since the cold war era has only one effect: it makes you look incredibly dumb to the rest of the world. It makes you republicans look like a bunch of childish sore loosers.

Makes you wonder where were all these people when GWBush rammed the Partiot act trough America's throat....?

Take it from someone who has had the benefit of goverment healthcare for over 34 years in Belgium: it's a good thing.

Being forced to pay a tax if we don't buy their insurance sounds like extortion and slavery to me;
does buying medical care vs getting taxed sound like a free world to you?

I dont care about what your vision for the future is;
all i see to total collapse;


[edit on 24-3-2010 by DjSharperimage]

[edit on 24-3-2010 by DjSharperimage]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Dear SpartanKingLeonidas,

Being a "child of 2 countries" (I grew up in the USA and now reside in Europe), I feel that I have some knowledge of socialized welfare, i.e. socialized medicine. Ihave 3 kids....kids get sick, fall with heads on boulders, sprain or break their bones...etc...very often. I don't think twice to go the Doc. or to the Emergency Room with the most precious people in my life.....why because we don't have to pay not even a cent for these visits. All doctors visits are FREE! ALL prescriptions are FREE! Of course this is taken out of our taxes but it is so much more senseable and important than pumping tax money into Defense ....because we all know that the only bogeyman out there are the black ops and where are they???? you got it right in your own yard!
Stay Healthy! Stay Alive!

take a look at this link...this where your taxes are going .....and the great thing about it is......not one tax payer profits from it!!

projectcamelotproductions.com...

reply to post by girlsdayltm


when was the last time we saw project camelot talking about politics;
the last time i checked they are from austrailia

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
Star and flag for stating what SHOULD be painfully obvious for every voting age American citizen, thank you!

reply to post by DjSharperimage


just watch the video....in it are 2 Americans, sitting in America talking about american things

Originally posted by girlsdayltm
reply to post by DjSharperimage

 

just watch the video....in it are 2 Americans, sitting in America talking about american things

That was the past;
And this is now!!!!

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

How dare you pass a law which many Americans are against completely and wholeheartedly, Mr. President and Congress, you collusive, scheming, and corrupt people.

YAH! How Dare you do what you said you were going to do! How dare you pass a law that you were elected on. How dare you go with the majority of the American people!

HOW DARE YOU DO WHAT REPUBLICANS COULD NOT!

Wow. You seem to be in the mindset of "the majority"

Well, lets set the people aside for one second:


A MAJORITY of the House voted to approve this bill
A MAJORITY of the Senate voted to approve this bill
An OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of the American people voted for Barack Obama to be POTUS.

He Campaigned on promising UHC

and received 63,000,000 votes....compared to McCains 53 million.

Sounds to me like that MAJORITY of AMERICANS wanted this, and still do.

Even though Sean Hannity says otherwise.

The politicians that WE Elected passed this bill.

You cannot say the American people, as a whole, don't want it.

Or you're just flat out lying.


[edit on 24-3-2010 by Snarf]

Originally posted by DjSharperimage

Being forced to pay a tax if we don't buy their insurance sounds like extortion and slavery to me;
does buying medical care vs getting taxed sound like a free world to you?

I dont care about what your vision for the future is;
all i see to total collapse;

Extortion and slavery really ? you make me laugh....
Comparing a bill that provides healthcare to slavery and Extortion is just retarded. Don't you pay taxes now?

I bet you think Obama is a closet-muslim-kenian- terrorist buddy-socialist aswell....so there's no point in seriously debating you.

And you think you live in a free world now ?HA that's just rich....

If "all you see it total collapse", then you're obviously looking at it the wrong way(or looking at it the way your 24/7 "news"-channel wants you to)

Yes - "How DARE you, Mr. President" and congress, pass a law that 50% of American's are in favor of - especially when 40% of Americans are against it.

/rolleyes

Bite down, armchair patriots, teabaggers, and neocons - this will hurt, but it's for the best.

Originally posted by atlguy
Yes - "How DARE you, Mr. President" and congress, pass a law that 50% of American's are in favor of - especially when 40% of Americans are against it.

/rolleyes

Bite down, armchair patriots, teabaggers, and neocons - this will hurt, but it's for the best.

Thats fine...Celebrate for now. This will get repealed or get smacked down in front of the supreme court for being unconstitutional. How are you going to cope then?

And if so many Americans were in favor of it why is there going to be such a shift in power this November? If it was such a good thing and the majority of Americans were behind it then the Dems would pick up seats wouldn't they?


[edit on 24-3-2010 by Thirty_Foot_Smurf]

Originally posted by Bicent76
reply to post by 12.13.2012

 

This is going to be a mess. Wonder what their going to do next to make America, a better place to live. Holy $h$%.

Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HealthCare will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Page 170 Lines 1-3 HealthCare Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes.

The NEXT great "push" soon to follow in my opinion will be amnesty

Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reids undying mission to push Obama's Immigration legislation S-9 Amnesty Bill put into law. This bill has been bandied about for over a year, but now seems to be getting serious attention of becoming law, so much so, Republican Senators are reacting strongly against it.

The reaction to this bill, which previously was rejected may be finding favour, regardless what American citizens want, leaving Minority Leader John Boehner to shout "This Bill is a "Piece of Sheet", heard echoing around the House .

Seems a great way to secure VOTES for the "upcoming" erection election.
Dud in it now?
1. Illegal aliens given legal status just 24 hours after filing... even though background check will not have been completed in nearly all cases.

2. US tax payers will foot the bill for lawyers to represent illegal aliens.

3. While visas granted will be [technically] "temporary", they may be renewed indefinitely.

4. Alien gang members (estimated to be 30,000, minimum) qualify for amnesty simply by declaring they "don't want to be in a gang any longer".

5. US taxpayers will provide the money for "incentives to keep Mexicans in their own country"... like health care, education costs.

6. Aliens will pay no back taxes.

7. Aliens will qualify for the "earned income tax credit" by way of a check from the Government at taxpayer expense, though the illegal aliens will not be required to pay back taxes.

8.Instate college tuition given to aliens [a benefit which is denied to tax-paying, US citizens].

9. US/Mexico border fence reduced from 800 miles to 200 miles.

10. Etc. Etc. Etc.................

Sorry O.P., but the government has the power to compel you to buy things.

The last three words of the Amendment say or the people. Which pretty much demolishes the idea that the states would have special powers over the people.

And the 14th Amendment guarantees equal protection under the law.
The argument for denying access to national health care based on the Tenth is the same as asserting a state’s right to allow slavery.

If the Republicans feel they have Constitutional grounds to challenge health care reform, challenge it in the Supreme Court. Get it declared unconstitutional.
They might even win with the cabal currently sitting.
But they know they have neither the law on their side nor the numbers.
So they just bellow ‘I want my country back!’

And now they're screaming about "STATE'S RIGHTS!!!!" What state’s rights? Go read the Bill of Rights, again, and pay close attention. Most of the rights reserved, explicitly, in amendments 1 through 10 are reserved to people or individuals, that is, to citizens. 10 happens to mention states, but also mentions ‘the people’. Pay particular attention to 9.

State’s rights are subsidiary to the rights of citizens. The Bill of Rights sets out a few things states may not do to citizens, and where states come in conflict with the enumerated powers or the Bill of Rights, Federal law or the rights of citizens under federal law take precedence.

I suspect that the founders were well aware that one conundrum that would never be resolved is the fact that the best governance is self governance, and that any government activity should, if possible, be devolved to the lowest possible level, but given the human talent for greed, avarice, and corruption, there always has to be yet another level above any given level of government just to keep the lower ones honest. That seems to be particularly true of state and local (county and municipal) governments. If there’s any government I trust less than the Federal, it’s my state government, and I trust county and city governments even less. The smaller a government entity is, the easier it is for some political or entrepeneurial perv to seize it and use it for his own ends; consider the political machines that have run various and sundry cities over the years; you can see the same effect in state governments.

Don’t kid yourself about “States Rights”. Unless you’re the guy that owns the state, you won’t have any rights once the federal system has been shattered.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by atlguy]

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter

Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HealthCare will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Section 246 on page 143 under the heading of "NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS" said, "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
Page 170 Lines 1-3 HealthCare Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes.

Under the heading of PART VIII—HEALTH CARE RELATED TAXES SUBPART A. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE. and ‘‘Subpart A—Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Care Coverage." There will be a tax imposed of 2.5% of adjusted income on individuals who do not medical health coverage that is deemed acceptable by the plan.

A non resident alien can be defined as a foreigner living and working in the United States on a nonimmigrant visa.

If their income is effectively connected with a trade or business in the United States, non resident aliens are subject to same taxation as any US citizen, according to the US Internal Revenue Service. According text of the bill non resident aliens are not subject to the 2.5% of adjusted income tax. The text of the bill does not indicate that non resident aliens are eligible for benefits.


Keep going - I've got all day to blast holes in your arguments.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


the only things bad about this is
A)timing
B)mandatory or penalty (although i understand why)

I really dont see the big deal when everyone pays taxes why not use them for good things like healthcare. If you want to Bitch and moan about how your tax dollars are being spent why not start with our education which is a joke. Or the TRILLION dollars we have spent killing people over the last 10 years. Or our infrastructure that is crumbling. Instead people want to complain about tax dollars that might actually do some good. Its moot anyway as im sure a (R) will be in office soon and the first, FIRST, thing that person will do is repeal the bill so it doesnt matter anyways. boo whoo 3 years and its gone anyways so stop freaking out about this already. People are acting as if the government declared martial law or something. This bill isnt the fix but its a start and it needed to be done if we are ever gonna make it right. If you can afford health insurance great, good for you, you are not everyone though. The cost of healthcare MUST come down and if the system wisnt going to start it the government might as well.

reply to post by atlguy


Youre not blasting holes in anything,
US citizen and alien status are now one in the same?
I guess they are, to some.
Your gun is jammed buddy.

Just noticed you've been a member for 2 days, you wouldnt be performing any duties right now would you?
Seems odd vious.
But then it is a conspiracy site.




[edit on 24-3-2010 by HappilyEverAfter]

Originally posted by atlguy
Sorry O.P., but the government has the power to compel you to buy things.

The last three words of the Amendment say or the people. Which pretty much demolishes the idea that the states would have special powers over the people.

And the 14th Amendment guarantees equal protection under the law.
The argument for denying access to national health care based on the Tenth is the same as asserting a state’s right to allow slavery.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by atlguy]

So they could pass a bill saying that I have to buy a house, how big it must be and pay a fine if I don't?

Same with groceries, too?

Let me ask you a question.
Who does a mandatory seat belt law help, if you exclude the person that is wearing it?

We need to exclude the person that the law is ostensibly written for, because that isn't why the law was written.

The answer....... Auto Insurance Companies!

If you think that the HCR bill was passed and signed because the Congress and President give a flying monkeys arse about the average citizens well-being, you are very naive.

It is ALL about BIG MONEY..... Health Insurers......Big Pharma..... TAXES!

I'll come back to this thread in 2014, and post to yall how no one forced me to buy health insurance.

How DARE our President actually try and do his job, and begin the process of health care reform.

Reform begins with these kinds of moves.

I doubt Obama will be a two term president, and I doubt this bill will stand unchanged.

This IS America after all.

BTW, has the outraged OP read all 2500 pages, or is he/she allowing bloggers and others to ferret this information for him to comment on?

reply to post by hotbakedtater
Just want to say that no one will deny that this bill will force you to buy insurance or pay a fine.

I have a problem with that.