How Dare You Mr. President and Congress...

Damian: what is being dressed up and sold as "free healthcare" here in the U.S. is not what it seems. It is not like how it is in other countries, and more importantly the minutian contained within the healthcare legislation that was passed is what Im concerned about. Little things that are cited in the bill such as it will be MANDATORY by 2014, which is eerily similar to the very first legislation Hitler passed when he first got into power. It will also have information privacy stipulations that people arent comfortable with, as well as what I believe to be the ultimate goal here: " government healthcare = mandatory vaccinations = nanoRFID chips (which are already in production by 7+ companies). But Barry did get at least one thing right when speaking about the American people today: "We will do what is hard, we will do what is right." I hope he understands thats whats going to happen. Also, I saw where 14 states launched law suits on the U.S. government as soon as he put down his pen. Anyone that thinks a civil war isnt at hand now, you are just in denial...

* I meant minutia (typo), sorry guys
* he also said "we will do what is necessary" and we couldnt agree with that any more.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by 12.13.2012]

[edit on 23-3-2010 by 12.13.2012]

by the way, anyone who thinks something smells fishy here, and with their little midnight meetings, and with the double-wall street bailout, and 9/11, and patriot act (1 &2 ), just think about this: what do you think they think about the constitution? they have treated that like feces-laden toilet tissue up to this point, so what respect do you think they have for the bill of rights? we cant even say "whats next?" anymore, because they have almost accomplished all their goals. we have literally had nearly everything we hold sacred about this nation destroyed. AND WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO GLOBAL WARMING?? AS SOON AS "CLIMATEGATE" HIT, THEY DROPPED THAT LIKE TIGER WOODS *drops* A TIP AT A MOTEL!! they were ALL ABOUT that, it was the hot button topic, and as soon as it got exposed as fraud, they scramled like roaches! I bet you cant GET obama and them to even talk about it anymore!! should we just go ahead and change the name of America to: "shoulda, coulda, woulda" ?!?!?

[edit on 23-3-2010 by 12.13.2012]

Originally posted by wdkirk
Its a violation of the 10th Amendment. The Federal Government does NOT have the right to force anyone to buy Health Insurance.

10-13 States are filing suit. More will jump on board.

Your elected officials did NOT vote the way of the people they represent. If they had, this bill would never have made it.

Their will be a huge change in the House and Senate over this.

2 things-

1. Constitutional Legal Scholars are already reporting that the suits have slim to no chance of being successful based on precedents. Its a nice show for the press, but unlikely to change anything. It will simply cost the states money they don't have. Rather than recognize that, their leaders will use that money to grandstand for their parties. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

2. I am in awe of people who intuitively know what all of the people want and somehow it is what their particular group wants. Obama supporters have championed this health care reform from day one of the campaign and have stayed engaged throughout the whole process. There has been no secret about this agenda and no rules have ever said that everyone has to agree to pass a bill, otherwise nothing would be passed. Look at the sheer numbers of laws the Bush administration passed that were split along party lines...

Finally- if you weren't aware of Obama's agenda and you voted for him, shame on you. It hasn't been a secret. If you were aware of it, and didn't agree with it then, but didn't vote, shame on you. And if you did vote, but your candidate lost, then the people have spoken and you'll get your chance to vote again. That's how the system works...

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


You're having a bout of uncoordinated thinking if you believe leaders must listen to followers. Most people actually believe this is worthwhile.

reply to post by okachobi


Constitutional legal scholars have declared any legal battles challenging the constitutionality of the legislation as pointless? Oh, well I suppose you are right and the states should just shut up and worry about other things, and the people too. God knows that the Constitution for the United States of America is a complex and difficult document to read. While it may be brief in its text, and simple in its structure, it is the law so it is just too complex for anyone outside of scholars to understand, and not just any scholar, mind you, but Constitutional legal scholars.

1. Constitutional Legal Scholars are already reporting that the suits have slim to no chance of being successful based on precedents. Its a nice show for the press, but unlikely to change anything. It will simply cost the states money they don't have. Rather than recognize that, their leaders will use that money to grandstand for their parties. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

2. I am in awe of people who intuitively know what all of the people want and somehow it is what their particular group wants. Obama supporters have championed this health care reform from day one of the campaign and have stayed engaged throughout the whole process. There has been no secret about this agenda and no rules have ever said that everyone has to agree to pass a bill, otherwise nothing would be passed. Look at the sheer numbers of laws the Bush administration passed that were split along party lines...

Finally- if you weren't aware of Obama's agenda and you voted for him, shame on you. It hasn't been a secret. If you were aware of it, and didn't agree with it then, but didn't vote, shame on you. And if you did vote, but your candidate lost, then the people have spoken and you'll get your chance to vote again. That's how the system works...


* I just wanted to state something here about this last paragraph you wrote. I agree with shame on people if they voted for the guy and had no idea what his content or agenda's were, and I agree with you on shame on people that knew the deal and didnt vote at all, but one thing that I am really starting to get the hang of (and I cant agree with you) is: I think we learned from bush rigging the ballots to steal an election that our votes dont mean a hot shet. Now, I voted this time in good faith, knowing my candidate was going to get beaten, but I still gave the guy half a chance and didnt say anything negative for a a while there, because a tiny part of me inside really thought (and secretly wished) there was a slim chance of him breaking free of his bonds from his masters, and doing the right thing, even if they gave him the JFK treatment, because he was going to turn out to be, in a way, like JFK. But, as you can see, he didnt. Instead, he worked out better for the elites than they probably ever dreamed he could have. He reinforced a slimey federal reserve (which STILL claims they are "federal" in some way, when they are merely a corporation) and he really let his banker buddies off the hook with a little walkin money to boot on top of their giant piles of the money that they stole (and kept) that used to belong to hard working people in this country, he never repealed the mess that they made with patriot act, he never even JOKED about calling bush out as a war criminal (which still needs to be done), and he never said a damn word about 9/11- and now this. Im done with this guy.
>> In summation: voting is bullshet

how dare you assume that all americans don't want health insurance.


you follow the BS rhetoric of not wanting the gov't involved, you want things to go exactly as they are now but I read that you live in your car and are struggling to make payments on various modest things.

so things being how they are now somehow led you to life you live.

by this logic, you enjoy living in your crappy life and wouldn't want anything else to change it.



no thanks, dude, I'll take HCR and any other kind of positive change.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
How dare you pass a law which many Americans are against completely and wholeheartedly, Mr. President and Congress, you collusive, scheming, and corrupt people.

Wrong. You forget about the many Americans who are completely and wholeheartedely for this law.

You are violating our 10th Amendment rights, as a nation, in whole.

Quote from : Wikipedia : 10th Amendment to the United States Constitution

The Tenth Amendment (Amendment X) of the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, was ratified on December 15, 1791.

The Tenth Amendment restates the Constitution's principle of federalism by providing that powers not granted to the national government nor prohibited to the states by the constitution of the United States are reserved to the states or the people.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Shame you're not on the Supreme Court, but you'll be found to be wrong again.

This is not some Republican nor Democrat fight, it is an American fight, where we are already beaten down and not able to afford our mortgages, our car payments, our basic familial needs.

This is not some rich verses poor fight, although it sure feels like it, because we as citizens are being bypassed by you, Washington D.C., because you listen to special interest groups, or lobbyist groups, the Healthcare Industry in this instance, instead of the people.

The only person not listening to me is my Republican representative, my president listened to my vote.

You cannot mandate something like this bill into law, if we as citizens can barely afford to feed ourselves, because you basically robbed all of our tax money through the Bailout, and gave that money to the banks, instead of back to us citizens who paid it in.

I got my stimulus check...didn't you?

If you go to the thread below, aptly asking what we will give up, to afford healthcare, you will see my answer, not one damn thing, not one thing will I give up.

I will give up everything to help you succeed, why will you not do the same for me?

And if you go there you will see I'm backing any American standing their ground.

Voting is like driving a car, (D) to go forward, (R) to go in reverse.

...and...

If you go here you will see how many people across America and other countries are dumbfounded.

Dumbfounded that we don't already have this.

They are dumbfounded, Mr. President and Congress, because not only have you not listened to us, but you have literally slit our throats, the ones who cannot find a job, because our economy is in the dumpster, where this bill should be, where you should have thrown it.

No, they did listen to us. Thank whatever God there is they didn't listen to the squeaky wheel when the whole damn cart was busted and acted accordingly.

I see that many states are lining up to sue over this highly controversial bill, and I say good, it is about time those in power, stood their ground, and stopped toadying to you.

Many state attorney general's, all of which are republicans and...imagine that...a few of which are playing political games while running for governor!

How Dare You Mr. President and Congress...

We the people are sick and tired, not health-wise, but policy-wise.

I was sick and tired of years of special interest bills, finally they do something right.

How Dare You Mr. President and Congress...

We the people are sick and tired, not health-wise, but the status quo in not listening to us.

They did exactly what we sent them there to do.

How Dare You Mr. President and Congress...

We the people are sick and tired, not health-wise, but cost-wise, you cost us too much.

No, no they don't. Bad decisions cost us, bad decisions got us into this, these decisions will get us out.

How Dare You Mr. President and Congress...

We the people are sick and tired, not health-wise, but because your decisions are not wise.

That's just incorrect.

How Dare You Mr. President and Congress...

We the people are sick and tired, not health-wise, but because you do not listen.

Yes, yes they do.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Preamble to the United States Constitution

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Notice that there, in the Preamble, Mr. President and Congress?

We the people...

We did not ask for this nonsense you in Washington D.C. pushed through towards a bill, passed into law today, nor will we stand for it, we will back those states suing to get this repealed.

We did ask for this. We will stand for it, we will push back.

When the politicians went to the local town halls, they could not even speak to the bill, because they did not write it, those of the special interest groups did, that was evident.

How many republican congressmen and women quoted, verbatim, what special interests wrote for them?! Too many.

We as citizens are tired, done, and literally out on the streets, and we will not take this nonsense lightly.

You are the only one spouting nonsense.

And I am supporting a legal and non-violent means towards throwing a monkey-wrench into the works, in order to stop any and all means that screws us Americans.

I'll be there to fix your further mistakes and bring sanity to your insane ideas.

reply to post by piddles


ok piddles. now you run along and get your "govt. healthcare/mandatory vaccination/swine flu/ RFIDchip" cocktail, ok? have fun. you will get exactly what you wanted and more. read the bill.

reply to post by okachobi


Ok I am begining to realize I am fighting a losing battle here..

Its ok, and your right actually, Yet I missed the part on obama's campeign trail where he said Americans would have to pay for health insurence or get fined in 2014 or worse.



I dunno I guess I did not see that one coming.. No I did not vote for him, and just for craps and giggles in November i am voting all republican or Independant. I think this party'd system is not working for the people. Washington, warned us of these partied systems and i think when things like this health care reform bill passes, in the way it did is what he meant..



I just think this mandate is not being grasped by many americans, you can goto jail and stuff, just makes it easier to break the law and be a criminal..

reply to post by links234


If you still believe in "democrat/ republican", then you'll believe anything, links234. go ahead and run down there and make sure your the first on your street to get it. and just like someone said a few posts back of obama supporters, they were everywhere the day after he got elected, but you'd be hard pressed to find one now.

and its really sad and patheitc that we are still sitting here debating it like its "unforseen future"- as if they didnt already decide all this at the Bilderberd Group meeting...God, if this is how uninformed- and ultimately stupid- then we DESERVE whatever we get from here on out.

Open tyranny is upon us. If the gubmint can force you to buy a certain type of health insurance they can tell you what type of car, house, telecom, computer, etc you have to buy. This was precisely the point of this bill; why it was so contentious. Isn't it just conveient that the gov't now owns GM/Chrysler (YOU WILL BUY OUR HYBRID NOT TEH EVIL TOYOTA OMG ISSOUTTA CONTROL IS GONNA KEEL YOU!1). The government now owns/backs (does anyone really know at this point) ~$5 trillion in mortgages via Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac. The NSA and google are teaming up. O man.

ITS THE 21st CENTURY BEOTCHES. PUCKER UP AND DON'T FORGET THE LUBE.

Originally posted by 12.13.2012
reply to post by piddles

 

ok piddles. now you run along and get your "govt. healthcare/mandatory vaccination/swine flu/ RFIDchip" cocktail, ok? have fun. you will get exactly what you wanted and more. read the bill.

wow. so not only are you not acknowledging that the system you're so attached to isn't working, you add on popular conspiracy theories as well, in a way that generalizes them as one big event I have to deal with.

it's like working hard to say nothing.


so thanks for making conspiracy theorists look stupid, yet again. scared ignorant people like you make me embarrassed to say that I seek the truth.

reply to post by links234


Yeah this isn't a special interest bill at all. Mandating everyone buys a service provided by private companies has no beneficial effect on said companies at all. The insurance companies really took a hit on this one.

How much was your stimulus check for? Amazing how you managed to survive on it for so long.

Your final comment is telling: "I'll be there to fix your further mistakes and bring sanity to your insane ideas."

You are nothing more than an arrogant liberal who believes he knows what is best for people, and his ideas are the only valid ones because those who disagree with him are inept.

You, Sir, are delusional.

If anyone openly tells you they support this garbage 'reform' just ask them at what point in their life they decided it was ok to become a deadbeat.

Why should I pay for your healthcare?

Originally posted by tetrahedron

Why should I pay for your healthcare?

Because it's a right. Didn't you hear?

reply to post by tetrahedron


scary look into the future, yet indeed I see what your showing..

Exactly never in American, history has our government, passed a law telling err forcing its people to do something that really has no right or wrong balance to it at all. Oh and it passed and looks like it will be enforced..



thanks I learned something, maybe a lil wild on the idea but possible..

people wont do anything about this so they will take it to the next level next..

This is all wrong! This is what Obama is for is to take the fall and be a 1 term prez. It must really suck being born knowing your life was just a puppet with a hand up your butt making you say what they want. Why don't the world just blow up and get it over with.

Article I Section 8 United States Constitution gives congress the power to regulate commerce among the states. This includes healthcare. This nullifies the 10th Amendment argument because it is a power that congress does have.

It's not a perfect law, but it is a constitutional one.