How Dare You Mr. President and Congress...

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posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 08:43 PM
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Its a violation of the 10th Amendment. The Federal Government does NOT have the right to force anyone to buy Health Insurance.

10-13 States are filing suit. More will jump on board.

Your elected officials did NOT vote the way of the people they represent. If they had, this bill would never have made it.

Their will be a huge change in the House and Senate over this.




posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by wdkirk
Its a violation of the 10th Amendment. The Federal Government does NOT have the right to force anyone to buy Health Insurance.

10-13 States are filing suit. More will jump on board.

Your elected officials did NOT vote the way of the people they represent. If they had, this bill would never have made it.

Their will be a huge change in the House and Senate over this.


Its not forcing. Its giving you a tax credit if you do, and a tax if you don't. The government has the right to tax if I remember correctly, George Washington made sure of that himself during the Whiskey Rebellion.




posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 08:50 PM
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Alright, people are venturing into the BILL OF NO RIGHTS!

Here it is-Bill of No Rights

So here it is-

THE BILL OF NO RIGHTS
by Lewis Napper


We, the sensible people of the United States, in an attempt to help everyone get along, restore some semblance of justice, avoid any more riots, keep our nation safe, promote positive behavior, and secure the blessings of debt-free liberty to ourselves and our descendants, hereby try one more time to ordain and establish some common sense guidelines for the terminally whiny, guilt ridden, delusional, and other proponents of socialism and or authoritarianism.

We hold these truths to be self-evident: that many people are confused by the Bill of Rights and apparently require a Bill of No Rights.

ARTICLE I: You do not have the right to a new car, big screen TV or any other form of wealth. More power to you if you can legally acquire them, but no one is guaranteeing anything.

ARTICLE II: You do not have the right to never be offended. This country was based upon freedom, and that means freedom for everyone-not just you! You may leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc., but the world is full of dolts, and probably always will be.

ARTICLE III: You do not have the right to be free of harm. If you stick a screwdriver in your eye, learn to be more careful; do not expect the tool manufacturer to make you and all your relatives independently wealthy.

ARTICLE IV: You do not have the right to free food and housing. Americans are the most charitable people to be found, and will gladly help anyone in need, but we are quickly growing weary of subsidizing generation after generation of professional couch potatoes who will achieve nothing more than the creation of another generation of professional couch potatoes.

ARTICLE V: You do not have the right to free healthcare, regardless of what Hillary thinks. That would be nice, but from the looks of public housing, we're just not interested in public heath care.

ARTICLE VI: You do not have the right to physically harm other people. If you kidnap, rape, intentionally maim, or kill someone, don't be surprised if the rest of us want to see you fry in the electric chair.

ARTICLE VII: You do not have the right to the possessions of others. If you rob, cheat or coerce away the goods or services of other citizens, don't be surprised if the rest of us get together and lock you away in a place where you won't have the right to big screen color TV or life of leisure.

ARTICLE VIII: You don't have the right to demand that our children risk their lives in foreign wars to soothe your aching conscience. We hate oppressive governments and won't lift a finger to stop you from going to fight if you'd like. However, we do not enjoy parenting the entire world and do not want to spend so much of our time battling each and every little tyrant with a military uniform and a funny hat.

ARTICLE IX: You don't have the right to a job. All of us want all of you to have one, and will gladly help you along in hard times, but we expect you to take advantage of the opportunities of education and vocational training laid before you to make yourself useful



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by Bahb3
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Hey Genius, how about moving?

You're local conservative government appears to have failed you. Move to a city where you can take advantage of programs that will help you get on your feet and back into the workforce where you can be a productive member of society instead of a bum.

You see, the people are the strength of America. If We the People are taken care of it makes the country stronger. It even increases Patriotism and national pride.

I think it is a better approach than the conservative way of artificial Patriotism achieved with un-necessary Wars and conflict. The short term gains in Patriotism / Nationalism turn to remorse and shame in the long run. It truly is Constructive Government vs Destructive Government.



[edit on 23-3-2010 by Bahb3]


Hey genius, how about letting SKL figure out his own problems and handle them in the way he sees fit instead of advising him to surrender to welfare and agree to be a ward of the state? The O.P., clearly wishes to solve his problems his way and on his terms and such is his right.

To hell with patriotism, and nationalism and hail individualism! Hang in there SpartanKing, I have read enough of your posts to know you are a clever and resourceful soul, you will prevail!



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 08:55 PM
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Good thread...

US legislatures meet the US constitution

Their is a reason I am tooting my own horn.

I am covering the Constitution and how it applies in this argument from a laymen's perspective.

@the yeah comments

Are you serious? Really?

I forgot some are blinded by, well T&C stops me here!!!!!!

They used procedure and are ignoring a large number of their constituents in the process.

It is a legal rape of american citizens and its ok with you? Are you saying your brothers complaints DO NOT MATTER. Id watch my back because in these types of situations your brothers will resort in the end to the same tactics you have.

I wonder how you would feel if the Second amendment was made mandatory?

After all by the logic Ive heard it is necessary. You are surrounded by two legged predators. They will could get you at any time. So for your own good we must make sure you are at all times armed to protect your self.

Oh and any complaint you say about the analogy I flip on you and use mandatory carrying laws in response



Listen I am covered by the VA. Ill tell you now if its close to that your screwed.

Have you no sense of history?

Never mind, you qualify under hitlers quote.

You dont know it? Pick up a few more books and read.

Its how I feel.

Its like the government ignoring the citizens in Florida after the first election of GWB. It was ok though THEY VOTED FOR IT.....



You can not claim to be a representative government when part of your people are forcibly disenfranchised.

READ MY LIPS... what the bill was over is unimportant. The means used are a complete violation of good faith between the people and her government.

@ SKL

You asked earlier in way why I would speak the way I do. It is because of this. The means may not justify the ends but my exception is the protection of myself and and my family against such nitwits.

If I have crossed a verbal line let me know I will delete the post myself. I can not in this case separate the posts from the posters. This is due to the fundamental right we have to agree to disagree.

They MAY be good well intentioned people but unwillingly or worse willingly have sold out. I can think of at least three better ways this could have been handled. And gotten the same results, if not better.



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
I am barely making my car insurance, I can barely purchase food, and barely making payments for storage so what few belongings I own are not tossed into the street.

I do not own house, I am living out of my car, evicted due to lack of funds.


Are you writing all of this from your car?
Sorry to hear that. Tough times are getting tougher.

Honestly, you should actually be focusing on getting your life back in order and not worrying about something that will probably change within the next four years and isn't even due to take effect till then.

You've got BIGGER issues taking place right now and I personally think they should take precedent over this recently passed bill, and what is being said about it on ATS.

Good luck with that.

- Lee



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 08:59 PM
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This whole argument reminds me of some neighbors I have that are bikers.

These big, burly, bearded guys all had "Helmet Laws Suck" on their Harley's, helmets and cars. When the Helmet Law here in Florida was repealed, guess who still wears helmets? Yep, and that is how I see this thing.

I am convinced that there will be an affordable group plan or they'll provide affordable coverage of last resort. Too bad the Republicans killed the Public Option or this wouldn't be an issue.

Here is a hypothetical: Let's just say the big, bad government enforces the "mandatory" aspect. Someone gets thrown in jail. Guess what they will receive there........medical care.

I suspect as suggested in this article that "Mandatory insurance is of course an exercise in euphemism."


[edit on 23-3-2010 by kinda kurious]



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by Tom_Proctor
It makes me laugh when people post things like the OP.

The government passes things DAILY that a large portion of the country don't like.

There is ANOTHER SIDE TO THE VIEW DON'T YOU KNOW?


Of course not all decisions are popular, and there is a pro-health care side. However this anti-government sentiment in this country has been building steadily for a long time. This is just seen by a lot of people as another slap in the face to the people who opposed this bill, a majority of citizens. With the bad financial situation, wars based on deceit, the stealing of main streets money to keep wall street swimming in cash (AKA bailouts), the betrayal of the Americans who voted for Obama, the continuation of unpopular policies practiced by the Bush administration, and universal deceit from government the people are starting to get fed up. Basically every single institution that people place their faith in has betrayed them or ignored them. This stress is now at breaking point. People know we need a revolution, it is just unclear what type of revolution and who they want to lead them. What seems like an overreaction to a healthcare reform bill has deeper roots in whats been going on since 2000. The fact is that it is becoming increasingly apparent we need a paradigm shift. Unfortunately the longer you hold onto old ideas of division that have come out in this forum such as the talk of getting the republicans back in office, the longer you will prolong the expansion of an evil system. The healthcare reform bill that was just passed is very similar to the one proposed by republicans in opposition to Clinton's bill in 93 or 94. The Bush administration tore apart the constitution. The Obama administration is burning it. The next asministration will be tasked with scattering the ashes, unless we rise up and defend our ideas of freedom, and refuse to lie down in the face of tyranny and injustice of any -ism. Is anyone with me? Will anyone stand up for freedom and truth today?

[edit on 23-3-2010 by time91]



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 09:02 PM
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I'm totally confused about this health reform I keep hearing about I'm from Australia so obviously need it explained. As i could gather from the health reform your taxes pay for the health reform same as ours do. We had the compulsory private insurance bit it only applies to people that earn over 100k i think it's around there could be 75k. Anyway is this not the same thing that is getting introduced to you a government funded health scheme same as what is up in Canada.

As most doctors wont touch you without insurance in America and if you want someone to blame I would be blaming the lawyers you have there that make it so possible to sue anyone for anything even a burglar trying to break in to your house who hurts themself on your property.

If anyone can point me in the right direction as to where to find all the info on this whole new bill would be great. I hope it isn' as doom and gloom as you all think.



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


Seems you are real hung up on things and money. I think that is where the problem really lies.

I for one do not want the streets of America to look like Calcutta India. Apparently you do, and I can only guess to make you feel more like a man? I dunno.

How about we invest in our people. Make Education free (if you get the grades) like Canada does. will a smarter populace make us weaker? I don't think so.

I don't think a single WHITE MAN who helped form this Nation had the insight to see the diversity, nor the nature of our society today. No one can see into the future. These were intelligent men who would never expect us to hold on to every word of theirs in the face of social change.

We can evolve as a country and retain our core values. And anyone who would jeopardize our future over an abstraction like money is a fool. Currency will not always be there. There is a brave new world coming. Its not meant for us, or our children, but for our Great Great grandchildren.



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Has anyone thought that national health care in United States is another step for Global Health care and other initiatives for United Nations or the World Order? Nationalization of health care will allow US Government to give the US % designated by the United Nations.

interesting link globalpoverty.change.org...


Cap and Trade is next and also matches another United Nations goal.



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Opposite meaning it works? LOL



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


So you pay your Health Insurance to a Insurance Company,
the company goes Bust due to Miss Management (like that'll never happen)
then the Governement Bails them out with your Tax Dollars. The Govt then makes it
Illegal to NOT to have Insurance.

Sweet.

Is this just another way to give AIG even more money.
AIG can't loose now now matter much they screw things up.
If you were a Health Insurace Company, you'd be laughing all the way
to the Bank, they just can't loose.



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by Bahb3
reply to post by endisnighe
 


Seems you are real hung up on things and money. I think that is where the problem really lies.

I for one do not want the streets of America to look like Calcutta India. Apparently you do, and I can only guess to make you feel more like a man? I dunno.

How about we invest in our people. Make Education free (if you get the grades) like Canada does. will a smarter populace make us weaker? I don't think so.

I don't think a single WHITE MAN who helped form this Nation had the insight to see the diversity, nor the nature of our society today. No one can see into the future. These were intelligent men who would never expect us to hold on to every word of theirs in the face of social change.

We can evolve as a country and retain our core values. And anyone who would jeopardize our future over an abstraction like money is a fool. Currency will not always be there. There is a brave new world coming. Its not meant for us, or our children, but for our Great Great grandchildren.


So the bill is good because the founders were white? What?

But you are correct, let's not get hung up on little things like money. People who can't afford insurance are now, under threat of a fine, forced to buy insurance. But money doesn't matter. The government will subsidize some, but who cares, money doesn't matter. Taxes will go up so subsidize, but who cares, money doesn't matter.

Anyone who would jeopardize out future over an abstraction like our great great grandchildren is a fool. I think you give yourself too much credit. Think about your great great grandfather/mother. I bet you don't even know their names. Think they worked for your life? NO.



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 09:24 PM
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*Hey for everyone that thinks the Historic Health Care Bill is a good thing please take the time to review this reply. By the way look these up in the actual bill it's all there. Actually make sure you do, don't take my word for it, keep yourself informed.*


Shock to NBC this morning.
Please do read what the HealthCare Bill MANDATES!
This letter appeared in the Indianapolis Star (which is owned by the same people who own the Arizona Republic ) and was sent to a very popular Indiana Senator. This just goes to show everyone what pressure these Democrats are currently under, so continue to let them know how you feel about the healthcare bill.
Bill Stough

Shock to NBC This morning.


An Indianapolis doctor's letter to Sen. Bayh about the Bill (Note: Dr. Stephen E. Fraser, MD practices as an anesthesiologist in Indianapolis , IN ) Here is a letter I sent to Senator Bayh.. Feel free to copy it and send it around to all other representatives. -- Stephen Fraser

Senator Bayh,

As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the health care bill before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am shocked by the brazenness of the government's proposed involvement in the patient-physician relationship. The very idea that the government will dictate and ration patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in designing a health care system that works for all. Every physician I work with agrees that we need to fix our health care system, but the proposed bills currently making their way through congress will be a disaster if passed.

I ask you respectfully and as a patriotic American to look at the following troubling lines that I have read in the bill. You cannot possibly believe that these proposals are in the best interests of the country and our fellow citizens.

Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self-insure!!

Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill: THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!

Page 42 of HC Bill: The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC benefits for you. You have no choice!

Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals' finances & a 'National ID Health card' will be issued! (Papers please!)

Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer. (Time for more cash and carry)

Page 65 Sec 164: Is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions & community organizations: (ACORN).

Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the 'Exchange.'

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans -- The Govt will ration your health care!

Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. (Translation: illegal aliens.)

Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups (i.e. ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. (AARP members - your health care WILL be rationed!)
Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid eligible individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. (No choice.)

Page 12 4 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt monopoly.

Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what salary you can make.

Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan. (NO choice!)

Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part-time employees AND their families. (Employees shouldn't get excited about this as employers will be forced to reduce its work force, benefits, and wages/salaries to cover such a huge expense.)

Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option will pay 8% tax on all payroll! (See the last comment in parenthesis.)
Page 150 Lines 9-13: A business with payroll between $251K & $401K who doesn't provide public option will pay 2-6% tax on all payroll.

Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.) (Like always)

Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of the GOVT HC Admin.. will have access to ALL Americans' finances and personal records. (I guess so they can 'deduct' their fees)

Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." (Yes, it really says that!) ( a 'fee' instead)
Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors. (Low-income and the poor are affected.)

Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors: It doesn't matter what specialty you have trained yourself in -- you will all be paid the same! (Just TRY to tell me that's not Socialism!)

Page 253 Line 10-18: The Govt sets the value of a doctor's time, profession, judgment, etc. (Literally-- the value of humans.)

Page 265 Sec 1131: The Govt mandates and controls productivity for "private" HC industries.

Page 268 Sec 1141: The federal Govt regulates the rental and purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever the Govt deems preventable (i.e...re-admissions).

Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors: If you treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -- the Govt will penalize you.

Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. (The Govt tells doctors what and how much they can own!)

Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion. (The Govt is mandating that hospitals cannot expand.)
Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have the opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. (Can you say ACORN?)

Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: The Govt mandates establishment of 2 outcome-based measures. (HC the way they want -- rationing.)
Page 341 Lines 3-9: The Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. (Forcing people into the Govt plan)

Page 354 Sec 1177: The Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of 'special needs people!' Unbelievable!

Page 379 Sec 1191: The Govt creates more bureaucracy via a "Tele-Health Advisory Committee." (Can you say HC by phone?)

Page 425 Lines 4-12: The Govt mandates "Advance-Care Planning Consult." (Think senior citizens end-of-life patients.)

Page 425 Lines 17-19: The Govt will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. (And it's mandatory!)
Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: The Govt provides an "approved" list of end-of-life resources; guiding you in death. (Also called 'assisted suicide.')(Sounds like Soylent Green to me.)

Page 427 Lines 15-24: The Govt mandates a program for orders on "end-of-life." (The Govt has a say in how your life ends!)

Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced-care planning consultant" will be used frequently as a patient's health deteriorates.

Page 429 Lines 10-12: An "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end-of-life plans.. (AN ORDER TO DIE FROM THE GOVERNMENT?!?)

Page 429 Lines 13-25: The GOVT will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.. (I wouldn't want to stand before God after getting paid for THAT job!)

Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end-of-life! (Again -- no choice!)

Page 469: Community-Based Home Medical Services = Non-Profit Organizations. (Hello? ACORN Medical Services here!?!)

Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover marriage and family therapy. (Which means Govt will insert itself into your marriage even.)

Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, and rationing those services.


Senator, I guarantee that I personally will do everything possible to inform patients and my fellow physicians about the dangers of the proposed bills you and your colleagues are debating.

Furthermore, if you vote for a bill that enforces socialized medicine on the country and destroys the doctor-patient relationship, I will do everything in my power to make sure you lose your job in the next election.

Respectfully,

Stephen E. Fraser, MD

Dear Reader,

I urge you to use the power that you were born with (and the power that may soon be taken away) and circulate this email to as many people as you can reach. The Power of the People can stop this from happening to us, our parents, our grandparents, our children, and to following generations



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by skoalman88
 


Most people don't care about their Great Great Grandchildren. The way we wage endless war and make them pay for it makes that obvious.

I am not even telling you to care about them. What I am telling you, you will get steamrolled before the future plans of our civilization are jeopardized. You live in a fantasy world if you think otherwise.

We have learned how Rome fell and will not make the same mistake.

Good luck to ya buddy!

[snip]

MOd Edit - www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 23-3-2010 by elevatedone]



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by kinda kurious
 

KK,
I may be going out on a limb here...but.
I suspect that you are a "go along to get along" sort of person.
?
I ride. Your example makes it appear that Bikers were just, um, masturbating their ability to bitch?
Now, thanks to OUR efforts, I HAVE a choice. Yes, I sometimes wear a helmet.

The point is, we can roll over, or we can stand up for our beliefs. If you have no beliefs you hold dear, well,
roll over.



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by Neverless
 


And the alternative is not having health insurance and dieing? Gee What will I pick?



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 09:34 PM
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**** ATTENTION ****

Courtesy Is Mandatory


Thanks,



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 09:39 PM
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hey guys! just thought I'd share some of my posts from related thread today, since nobody seems to want to post on the threads after I put them on there. it seems like our little spines are becoming more brittle as the hours tick by today! here ya go, enjoy!!! :
hey guys! Just got off a speakerphone call with barrack, GWB, pelosi, cheney, rove and the rest of the gang, and they wanted me to pass on a message to the rest of you: "BEND OVER, CAUSE DADDY'S HOME!!!" And then they cheers'd champagne and coc aine with all their big pharma, corporate and banker/wall street buddies and said they have to go, because they have been on a 3 day orgy on your "dollar" (if you can even call that worthless shred of embarrassment that), and they gotta keep this party goin till the Veri-chip guys get there and they can get back to business as usual. Oh, and they all laughed in unison and said they were: "Gonna party like its 1913!" and then hung up the phone on me. Those crazy Republicrat/Democricans, they sure know how to have a good time..

* oh yea, I almost forgot, they mentioned something about how they like a good display of power/ fireworks show, and if we get too nasty, they have a #load of pyrotechnic 9/11 style shows planned (just for their own personal amusement) to worship Ba'al.





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