How Dare You Mr. President and Congress...

Geez, you people who think this piece of garbage is so wonderful and everyone will just come to love it (believe me, the Pope will urinate in his hat before I ever "love" this pile of dung legislation) are missing a really big point. Someone from the UK already touched on this point about waiting 2 years for elective surgery - it will be a lot of fun when you spend 2 years waiting in agony for a knee replacement, won't it?

You see, regardless of what you've been promised, there is NO free lunch. You get what you pay for - which means if you are wealthy, you *probably* will get lucky enough to keep the nice insurance plan you already have (until the company goes broke years down the line and the gov't takes over). Or, if you are really high on the hog, you can just fork over cash for what you want or need, like rich celebrities. But if you are middle or low income you will get grafted into this monstrosity of the gov't telling you what to buy and what care you get.

Ever see a business promotion where you get a free whatever just for coming in the store or signing up for a trial subscription for some product? Oh, you'll get something alright, most likely - but it will be cheap and relatively worthless.

Imagine if the gov't passed a law where everyone homeowner would get a free deck built on his or her home, courtesy of taxes and subsidies. Now that everyone gets a deck, you have hordes of over-worked and underpaid contractors out there building decks on peoples homes. Too many people to serve, not enough workers, shoddy construction - and one day you walk out on what you think is a really sweet deck to enjoy the sunshine and it collapses, and you are seriously injured or dead.

YOU ARE GETTING A P.O.S WITH THIS HEALTH PLAN!!!!! Sure, the gov't will feed you, but it's just another tasteless bowl of gruel. If you think you are going to get any sort of decent quality you've got another thing comin!

What I see happening is that when congress is re-booted (both Republicans and Democrats replaced) this fall, they will simply refuse to fund this piece of junk. Then there will be no money to hire all those IRS goons to hunt you down! No money to implement much of the really bad stuff that is set to take effect in the far future. Then Obama, Pelosi, Reid and their ilk will sit up there and have a hissy fit like a bunch of three year olds that they act like. This legislative beast will have most of its nastiest teeth pulled eventually, just like the snow monster in the Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer cartoon! It will still be there, but won't be able to do anything to you.

reply to post by centurion1211


yes, but that´s here in portugal, one of the least advanced countries in western europe, we are ripped off here and not only on medic care.

probably in sweden you wouldnt have to wait so much but thats in sweden...

reply to post by Schrecken Licht


Okay, I am going to ask the mods for an applause for that rant.

Damn, I do not think anyone could of said it better.

Star and Applause from me, we will see if the mods feel the same.

reply to post by Schrecken Licht


You work for Phizer or Squibb don't you?

Since were going to adopt the rest of the civilized worlds healthcare system...Are we going to see our survivability rates to disease:

A) Drop to their level.
B) Stay the same.
C) Increase as a direct result contrary to the inefficiencies of socialized medicine.

Bonus question:

What happens when the 20 million or so illegals get amnesty and hop on in addition to the reported 35 million were now going to cover? 55 million not too burdensome?

This is not perfect by any means, but it is something. Its a stake in the ground in the right direction.

I pay over 20k a year for insurance for my wife and I, being self employed. One of the reasons the rates are so high are the freeloaders that can afford health insurance but don't buy it. Then when they get a major medical emergency, they tap state and federal government funds
and get treatment for free.

People like me get double wacked because that part comes out of taxes that are also rediculously high to fund these programs.

Take some F@%&*)~ responsibility and stop abusing those of us that have been paying up the ass to support freeloaders who can afford to pay their share as well!

reply to post by rusethorcain


Nope - not even close - I'm a freelance artist and sometimes a "starving" one at that. Just because someone opposes this rotten rubbish doesn't mean they work in the pharmacy or health care industry or that they are filthy rich.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

Mandatory purchasing is tantamount to stealing my wallet and buying something.
Without my consent.

No, universal health care is about ensuring everyone gets basic health care, something that all other first world countries have. Only in America can you get sick and not get treatment for lack of funds.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
Then putting my wallet back with nothing left in it.
Oh yes, almost like right now, since I'm living out of my car.

I doubt anyone will knock on your window asking for your contributions.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
I did not vote this man into office and I would be saying the same thing if McCain had got in.

Maybe so, but you live in a democracy, flawed perhaps, but a democracy never the less, the "people" voted for what was offered, now you scream "foul" because the government is implementing what was offered.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
And voting is not the end of our responsibility, it is but the beginning of it.
I am a registered Independent, neither Republican nor Democrat.
And I am not claiming my side lost, but all sides, America as a whole lost.
[edit on 23-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

So set up a soap box on a street corner and rant all you like. You get a choice in a few years to vote the government out of office. If you don't like living in your democracy try one of the South American states. However behaving like a spoiled child is not going to get your message across.

Originally posted by Schrecken Licht
reply to post by rusethorcain

 

Nope - not even close - I'm a freelance artist and sometimes a "starving" one at that. Just because someone opposes this rotten rubbish doesn't mean they work in the pharmacy or health care industry or that they are filthy rich.

Gosh I am sorry. But then that would just mean, since you don't have a vested interest...you just don't know what you're talking about.

And btw, I heard a report - The Pope actually has peed in his hat.

[edit on 30-3-2010 by rusethorcain]

reply to post by prof-rabbit

No, universal health care is about ensuring everyone gets basic health care, something that all other first world countries have. Only in America can you get sick and not get treatment for lack of funds.

Outright lie, I can go to any Emergency Room in the US and by LAW they have to treat me. Sorry, wrong on this point.

I doubt anyone will knock on your window asking for your contributions.

Of course not, they will use a battering ram, figuratively. They will JUST take it out of our ever deflating paycheck.

Maybe so, but you live in a democracy, flawed perhaps, but a democracy never the less, the "people" voted for what was offered, now you scream "foul" because the government is implementing what was offered.

NO we do not live in a DAMN DEMOCRACY, we live in a DAMN CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC! Where the government is SUPPOSED to follow the LAW. See here-The Democracy Conspiracy

So set up a soap box on a street corner and rant all you like. You get a choice in a few years to vote the government out of office. If you don't like living in your democracy try one of the South American states. However behaving like a spoiled child is not going to get your message across.

As I can see here, anyone that does NOT bow to your mistaken beliefs, we need to shut up and/or move.

Well ain't that SPECIAL.

You can always find the TOTALITARIANS when you look for them. They are usually the ones holding the gun to your head!

And since some people JUST DO NOT GET IT, a little descriptive gif for you-

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/33b74a189f15.gif[/atsimg]


Sorry SKL, I had to jump on this ignorance.

[edit on 3/30/2010 by endisnighe]

reply to post by endisnighe
Well done!

The barrel could be re-crowned, though.

reply to post by endisnighe


Yeah well done. You are sort of a one trick pony aren't you?

reply to post by endisnighe


So... people are putting a gun to your head?


And you think hospitals have to treat you? Take a look what happens to the uninsured.







You only think they have to treat you.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by endisnighe

 

Well done!

The barrel could be re-crowned, though.

I would have thought a good clean first, then a re-crown if the shots are stringing.

You don't want people to see the connection the Republican party has with bankers and maybe put 2 and 2 together.

Golly, to all the folks who have a problem with this congress and this President....Where is your money going? To all those rich Democrats????

If you want to hide certain aspects of this health care bill from people and give them your white washed version of the truth, no problem.

The power is yours to abuse as you choose.

Make no mistake boys, (with guns) the truth will out no matter how quickly and concertedly you work amongst yourselves to hide it from regular people.

We just want to live in peace, with some reasonable comfort and trust this President and this congress to git 'er done!

If that makes me a dirty liberal as I am called by right wing nuts...so be it.




Delete this.









[edit on 3-4-2010 by rusethorcain]

Notice YOU are the only one here holding a gun to anyone's head?

You think you are...

But here you are....

Any Questions?

[edit on 3-4-2010 by rusethorcain]

Originally posted by prof-rabbit

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by endisnighe

 

Well done!

The barrel could be re-crowned, though.

I would have thought a good clean first, then a re-crown if the shots are stringing.

You are right.
I couldn't have the end of my barrel looking like that, wit dem two big divots in there.

On topic..... I hate lying politicians!

[edit on 5-4-2010 by butcherguy]

If you are against it, start a movement of people
who will take a vow to refuse to pay for any forced health
care regardless of the consequences.


as someone mentioned in this thread...
relax...there is plenty of time

Originally posted by weedwhacker
A whole can o'worms is likely going to be opened, when the States exert their 10th Amendment rights on this issue...becuase, the foot is in the door, and "you betcha!" the insurance companies are going to stay onboard with this 'mandatory' thing. But, it could very well turn into a State-mandated thing, rather than a Federally-mandated thing --- do you see?

Insurance companies are already regulated & enforced by the State Governments...Only in those cases where the States aren't regulating does the Federal step in, such as when an Insurance HQ based in one State is selling insurance within another State, for example. I know this because I AM a State-licensed Insurance Agent & I have to submit to more testing & licensing in order to sell insurance in any other State: If I wanted to sell insurance in all 50 States, I'd have to have 50 valid licenses.

One of the ways that insurance companies have been able to avoid the illegally over-extended Federal Interstate Commerce laws is by becoming affiliated with independant insurance agencies that have licensed agents of their own, already located in other States! Also, the insurance companies don't have to bother with the normal business expenses of maintaining a large number of agents of their own: The independant agencies themselves take care of that.

The key to this Obamacare is that it is not regulated by the States & won't be enforced by the States, but by the Feds instead: This also means more tax money to support a new Federal agency to enforce it, with its own payroll & benefits packages (ie: incurring more Federal taxes!). This is the key to understanding what the fight is about. It's also where Obamacare is violating the 10th Amendment. So it seems that the insurance companies themselves have a vested interest in fighting the Obamacare law, also working on Congress to have it repealed (or more accurately, voided) before its full effects kick in.

The main difference between State insurance regulation & Federal insurance regulation is a matter of demographics. Insurance companies are best at calculating risk & most of the variables are based on demographics...And the most fair & comprehensive regulations are those that originate from within that demographic. For example, States along the Mississippi River are higher risk for flooding than Nevada, just as the west coast States are more subject to earthquakes than those along the Mississippi are. The insurance companies work to transfer the costs associated with the risks present within the demographic. The client pays the premiums to the insurance in exchange for insurance that pays for the loss if the risk becomes reality: Risk is transfered from the client to the company: The insurance policy is the specific contract that defines which risks are to be covered & how much of the loss will be covered.

But the Federal Government is all hung up on "one size fits all" legislation (which violates the States' Sovereignty specified in the 10th Amendment) & risk assessment doesn't work like that: Risk IS demographic. Whenever the Feds "subsidizes" any kind of business, it also assumes regulatory control of what risk the government thinks are applicable...Which inevitably increases the cost-of-business for the insurance providers! In essence, the risk of conducting that business is transfered from the client or business to the taxpayers who ultimately funded the subsidy! When the insurance company receives a subsidy, it also skews the true cost of the company itself for issuing the payouts that cover a client's actual loss. In short, the Feds are forcing yet another program that interferes with the free market in the private sector: The ultimate result is that, as the government forces more expenses on the business, the more the business has to charge you for their goods/services. It's gotten so bad for businesses to pay the expenses & see how much harder it is for clients to afford their products, they pick up & leave the country, taking their jobs & contributions to the economy with them! In short, it's the government that's directly responsible for so many companies to be fleeing the US!

As far as the Feds go, none of this has anything to do with the actual business itself...It's merely another step towards total control, not to help people but to control them by exerting false controls over supply & demand. The reason these imposed controls are false is because they violate the Constitution when implemented by the government. This is the real root of the reason people are confronting & opposing the government...They truly are nothing more (& nothing less) than a cartel of criminals, with their broken Oaths of Office & violations against the Supreme Law of the Land.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
If they are allowed to continue not listening to Americans who pay their salaries, are allowed to steal from you and give it to corporations who don't give a damn about you then you are not a patriot and do not deserve to live under the Flag you hold so dear.

This is true...The US Constitution plainly demands that the States are to be guaranteed a Republican (representative) form of government (as per Article 4, Section 4) & they've already gotten an overwhelming public mandate against Obamacare, even as they were debating it in Congress! There went our "representative" government, out the window!

This is NOT the first violation of Article4, Section 4 either...Originally, by the Constitution, the State Legislators choose Senators for Congress...The passage of the 17th Amendment changed that, even though there is no documentation (in Congressional Journals or anywhere else) that specifies any alteration of Article 4, Section 4. In short, the 17th Amendment is, in & of itself, an illegal ratification that directly conflicts Article 4, Section 4!

To be blunt, the States are Constitutionally guaranteed to have representation in the Federal Government, but are denied representation while still being taxed! Also, by ignoring the overwhelming mandate of the People against Obamacare, We the People are also being taxed with no representation! Recall history, if you will, that one of the problems facing the Founding Fathers was "taxation without representation," but our States have been suffing that same burden since the 17th Amendment & We the People have been suffering the same, on an ever-increasing basis.

Some people say that our Founding Fathers, if alive today, would not recognize our country...I say that's a wrong conclusion. They would recognize this country as being under the same kind of monarchial rulership that they fought a war against! It's the same kind of "laws according to the whim of the moment" that so characterized the monarchy of which they knew!