How Dare You Mr. President and Congress...

While the health care issue occupied the headlines, on March 4, 2010 Sens. John McCain and Joe Lieberman quietly introduced the Enemy Belligerent Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010, monstrous legislation that will end American liberty and introduce a dictatorship. This bill has paranoids and patriots on red altert, and for good reason. It proclaims basically anyone who has a dissenting political opinion a domestic terrorist. The bill would allow the government to arrest and detain any American as an "enemy belligerent" indefinitely and without trial based on their "suspected activity." According to the bill, an individual doesn’t even have to pose a threat to be snatched, detained and interrogated – they can merely be deemed to be of “potential intelligence value” or come under the vague and sweeping mandate of “such other matters as the President considers appropriate.” This bill is more than a direct attack on the Constitution. It shreds it!!! Two words: Wake Up!!! If you want your soul to remain free.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by Thirty_Foot_Smurf

 

And they aren't going to get any coverage until 2014 or so, there plenty of time to get to work after November.

Actually many of the benefits start in 30 days and it will take according to Mike Pence this morning 12-15 months to fight this in the courts. Too bad for you. Most of the Americans you talk to are against this bill but we cannot all be found at gun shows and nascar.

Maybe you should really inquire around a little more and you will see most people are for it.

The rest don't know what to think since the Repubtilians campaign of misinformation was so good. Hey they have the big corporations backing them and so they have the money to wage an effective war.

Good game. See you in 2012 where you can try to fool the no longer "drugged up" people again.

Unfortunately for you but luckily for everyone in favor of this bill (and actually fortunately for you also since "like it or not" you will benefit...

RIGHT IS MIGHT in itself.

Ha! Red Neck Jokes..So original

It wont take 12-15 months if it is fasttracked to the supreme court. Remember Bush v Gore?

One of the biggest selling points of this bill is covering pre-existing for children and guess what..Wooops! Not going to be there until 2014! More and more of these discoveries will be coming out.

I see no benefit in the financial slavery of the American people. I see no benefit in one class of people supporting the other. That starts class warfare.

And in this case might was right wasn't it? Since the majority of American people weren't behind this and the government is now governing without the consent of the governed.

And sure, I'll see you in 2012 since Obama has ensured himself to be a one term president. I'll also see you in Nov 2010.


[edit on 24-3-2010 by Thirty_Foot_Smurf]

Originally posted by audas
Riiiiiiiiight - except for the fact that REPUBLICANS are the biggest recipients of lobbyist cash by MILES !

mental.

Are you referring to the same lobbyists that Obama promised to get rid of?

people sound like they are about to get free healthcare....I must of missed something. You will be paying for your healthcare, you will have co-pays each time you vist, you will need to pay something for the new prescriptions you will be taking...unless you can get on your local state funded "low-income" healthcare. The govt just said "you all have to BUY healthcare coverage"...it said nothing about free healthcare..

And the irs will enforce the buying of coverage and imposing the proper monetary fines for those that don't. Remember, this isn't free healthcare. The logical question now is, how many people will go to jail because they don't have a healthcare policy?? Or don't or can't pay the fine? The irs is enforcing this..the irs? The INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE.... WILL BE ENFORCING THE FORCED PURCHASE OF PRIVATE COMPANY HEALTHCARE POLICIES AND FORCED PARTITIPATION IN GOVT SPONSERED HEALTHCARE.
"It's just going to be like Christmas," ...wow really, gunna be running off to the doctor everytime you sneeze??
REP. JOHN CONYERS, D – MICH.: I love these members that get up and say, Read the bill! Well, what good is reading the bill if it's a thousand pages and you don't have two days and two lawyers to find out what it means after you've read the bill?
makes a prudent person wonder how many "elected" congress idiots read the bill. I wonder if Mr. Conyers view is the prevelant view of our elected officials...

amazing posting I will for sure keep this one under close watch. appreciate all the input..new to the ATS group...but been watching from the shadows for years

Originally posted by paraphi
Is this not what democracy is all about? Get an issue, argue about it and make the necessary concessions etc., then vote on it.

Oh, I know the losers often cry "foul", but then if the result had gone the other way...

Sorry to simplify it, but there you are. If you do not like it then the next time you vote you make your vote count and maybe the issue which has got you so vexed will be changed.

That idea only works in theory, you see the American people never had the chance to make a formal vote, the closest we came was when tv networks like MSNBC, Fox News, etc... held online polls to see the publics feelings on the healthcare issue.

Guess what? Even on liberal stations that for the most part promote Obamacare, their viewers overwhelmingly voted to NOT pass the healthcare bill in the current version.

Lets get one MAJOR thing clear here. Most US citizens are NOT opposed to healthcare reform, as any common man will admit there are always better, more efficient ways of doing things.

Being opposed to reform is completely different than being opposed to the 2000+ page Obamacare, although I can see how people would blur the lines.

What has the American people so pissed (in my opinion) are two key ideas commonly held by hard working tax payers.

1) We consider our country a "Free" country, now of course many of you will balk at the notion, but lets face it the US still has people coming here for a "better life" correct? Now, our elected officials are not Kings or Tyrants, their sole purpose is to act as a representative of their constituents, to serve the publics interests, and to vote accordingly on measures that the public has no chance to vote on. When there are huge protests, people calling, writing their elected officials, begging them to listen to their concerns, that truly is the publics only way to show support or disdain for the healthcare bill. Now, everyone heard of the many protests around the country AGAINST the healthcare bill. I think I heard ONCE of a rally in support of the bill, and there were only a handful of people there.... To sum it up, the American people are PISSED because they voiced their opinions and the government either did NOT listen or did NOT care.

2) I know I cant speak for everyone on this, but most people in the US are proud, honest, hardworking people, not expecting handouts from the government. I remember a time not to long ago when it was SHAMEFUL to rely on the government for your basic needs. Now, everyone practically brags about how they work the system or how they are on welfare/unemployment, it seems since the Wall St bankers were bailed out, now its expected to receive a handout? Personally, I have had good healthcare for most of my life. Why? Because my parents worked their asses off to afford it. I followed suit once I was old enough. And although I do feel for people who are dying because they cant afford their medical bills, who's fault exactly is that? The governments? I think not. Let me remind all of you, we live in a CAPITALIST society. If you work hard in this country you will survive. For all of you who think the government should pay your bills, go live in North Korea and see how you like it. If you cant pay your bills, the only person you can blame is YOU.

reply to post by WhiteDevil013


Yeah it is my fault a walk in visit to a doctor costs a few hundred bucks to get a prescription for anti-biotics to cure a cold.

I guess it is my fault I don't have your hard working parents or the time machine to go back to the days when doctors visits were affordable and not a luxury designed for only a few lucky souls whose place of employment did not get downsized bought or sold, our health insurance yanked away as a provision of keeping the job at all.


It isn't a broken health care system that causes hospitals to double bill and health insurers TO PAY exorbitant prices for cheap hospital supplies and making everyone else get priced out of the system.

You can stand by and watch a doctors office with a line of uninsured people parting with "a full weeks pay" and going without food to do it for some routine test.

You in the ivory tower with your hard earned health insurance can look down on people and say this practice is OK?

I am a little sick to my stomach right now.

reply to post by sada_emedu13
This is sad, but they have always been able to snatch you up and hold you for two days. Then you need a writ of habeas corpus to get you out.

All they need to do to justify this is pull out a book of mug shots and point to one that may only vaguely resemble you and say, "we thought he was this guy".

Originally posted by skoalman88

Originally posted by Jimmy910130
First off, I am not republican nor am I a democrat, hell, I'm not even American. But I'm literally getting p.o'd seeing all these threads about 'F*** Health care' and then another one 'Yay for Health Care' . If your going to speak ill of something, make sure you speak in the first person, not generalizing your whole country because not everyone agrees with you (I'm not referring only to the OP, I am referring to all of these threads, and to your president, who speaks in generalizing terms also).

Personally, I know their 2 very different kinds of health care, but here in Canada, I love my health care: Saved my father from cancer, saved me from bacterial meningitis, my cousin from leukemia, is currently treating my grandmother for lung cancer, treated me when I was 15 and got hit by a car, is treating my grandfather's arthritis, treated my uncle's prostate cancer, ect ect for---- no charge. But this is here. And I guess it really can't compare as to what I am hearing.

Few questions: How much is an average American going to pay for health care?

Is it going to be similar to Hawaii's government mandated health care, which they have had for close to 40 years and which they all seem to love?

And, if your living in your car, and posting here, it means you have a laptop, and/or running out your internet bill or your car battery, no?

If you could have an alternative to this health care reform, what would it be exactly?

Are you willing to help/share/pay for one of your citizens who is in dire need of medical help/treatment?

Thanks for your answers,

-Jimmy-

No taxes in Canada? Where does this money tree exist that the government plucks bills from to pay for your services?

In canada they have money to finance their socialist agenda because they depend on the U.S. to defend them. Cuts way down on their defense costs. And they get to (ignorantly) tell us how great they have it and how we do everything all wrong.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by happinness

 

We Americans know that our government doesn't work.

Deal with proving to the Social Security Administration that Grandpa is still alive and still deserves to get his Social Security checks or that Grandma really is 66 years old because they won't accept her birth certificate.
I have dealt with both.

Come live with it.

Then tell me how much more government 'help' I need.

]

[edit on 24-3-2010 by happinness]

ok, sorry my post went a bit wrong.

reply to post by rusethorcain

Yeah it is my fault a walk in visit to a doctor costs a few hundred bucks to get a prescription for anti-biotics to cure a cold.

You cannot cure a cold, it is a virus.

Also, the use of antibiotics is being phased out because they actually destroy the bodies ability to fight off infection, besides there creating superbugs.

Boy we should come to you if we need medical advice. Pffft.

Originally posted by Thirty_Foot_Smurf
At first I thought you were making an attempt at humor then I realized you were actually serious. You do know that when they control you from cradle to grave they can control who gets a cradle and who gets a grave...The problem with Londinistan is that you people have been giving up your rights under the guise of safety and security for decades. You're the last people we should listen to. Why don't you just give us tips on oral health next?

Really mate? Oral health, I mean really? Your quips to instigate a fight aside, your hypocrisy is astounding considering the rights the American Government has ripped away on account of the same concepts. Nice try though... at least you got a response.

How many people actually know what I am speaking about with the information that this bill will allow access to through your Medical Records, and pushing towards more information databases which makes it easier for Government access?

Quote from : Vitality, Inc and AT&T Partner To Improve Rx Adherence

CAMBRIDGE, MA – Vitality, Inc. and AT&T announced Tuesday that AT&T will provide the nationwide wireless network connection for Vitality GlowCaps, intelligent pill caps designed to help patients take medications regularly.

According to David Rose, CEO of Vitality, the AT&T-connected GlowCaps fit on standard prescription bottles and use light then sound reminders, which can be followed by a phone call or text message to remind patients to take their medication.

"For the first time in the healthcare industry, we can use minute-by-minute adherence data to motivate healthy behavior," Rose said.

The AT&T wireless network also enables Vitality to know when to refill a medication before a patient runs out, Rose said.

When it comes to the Medical Records of citizens who are sick, going to the hospital, or even to a local doctor, most people do not realize just how much information is contained within them, which is exactly why this avenue was pursued, hiding it under the guise of trying to help people, just like Swine Flu and W.H.O.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/149ea0584a14.png[/atsimg]

Quote from : Wikipedia : World Health Organization

The World Health Organization (WHO) is a specialized agency of the United Nations (UN) that acts as a coordinating authority on international public health.

Established on 7 April 1948, and headquartered in Geneva, Switzerland, the agency inherited the mandate and resources of its predecessor, the Health Organization, which had been an agency of the League of Nations.

Does no one find it suspicious that after one of our allegedly worst outbreaks, we are targeted for this Healthcare Reform, right around the time our economy was at its absolute lowest due to the thievery of our tax money through the Bailout?

I smell a False-Flag Operation, just to induce us into accepting this without a fight.

For anyone who does not believe me they can look to these two books as examples.

The Cult of the Presidency: America's Dangerous Devotion to Executive Power

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/640c46c7ca7b.jpg[/atsimg]

Amazon Review :

The Bush years have given rise to fears of a resurgent Imperial Presidency.

Those fears are justified, but the problem cannot be solved simply by bringing a new administration to power.

In his provocative new book, The Cult of the Presidency, Gene Healy argues that the fault lies not in our leaders but in ourselves.

When our scholars lionize presidents who break free from constitutional restraints, when our columnists and talking heads repeatedly call upon the "commander in chief " to dream great dreams and seek the power to achieve them--when voters look to the president for salvation from all problems great and small--should we really be surprised that the presidency has burst its constitutional bonds and grown powerful enough to threaten American liberty?

The Cult of the Presidency takes a step back from the ongoing red team/blue team combat and shows that, at bottom, conservatives and liberals agree on the boundless nature of presidential responsibility.

For both camps, it is the president's job to grow the economy, teach our children well, provide seamless protection from terrorist threats, and rescue Americans from spiritual malaise.

Very few Americans seem to think it odd, says Healy, "when presidential candidates talk as if they're running for a job that's a combination of guardian angel, shaman, and supreme warlord of the earth."

Healy takes aim at that unconfined conception of presidential responsibility, identifying it as the source of much of our political woe and some of the gravest threats to our liberties.

If the public expects the president to heal everything that ails us, the president is going to demand--or seize--the power necessary to handle that responsibility.

Interweaving historical scholarship, legal analysis, and trenchant cultural commentary, The Cult of the Presidency traces America's decades-long drift from the Framers' vision for the presidency: a constitutionally constrained chief magistrate charged with faithful execution of the laws.

Restoring that vision will require a Congress and a Court willing to check executive power, but Healy emphasizes that there is no simple legislative or judicial "fix" to the problems of the presidency.

Unless Americans change what we ask of the office--no longer demanding what we should not want and cannot have--we'll get what, in a sense, we deserve.

The Science of Fear: Why We Fear the Things We Shouldn't--and Put Ourselves in Greater Danger

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/94f1880c5ece.jpg[/atsimg]

Amazon Review :

“The Science of Fear elegantly weaves academic research and everyday experience, exposing the secrets of emotion and reason, and the essential roles they play on our lives. An excellent book.”
--Dan Ariely, author of New York Times bestseller Predictably Irrational

“Where writers such as Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Francis Wheen have been content largely to enumerate the errors of less rational men and women, Dan Gardner has collated part of what we need to diagnose the problem. If skeptics spent less time moaning about the propensity of their fellows to believe what they want to believe and more time asking why they do so, there might not be such a crisis of reason in the West today.”
--The Independent

“Terrific. Exceptionally good… Has the clarity of Malcolm Gladwell.”
--Evening Standard

“Excellent…. analyses everything from the media’s predilection for irrational scare stories to the cynical use of fear by politicians pushing a particular agenda…. Gardner never falls into the trap of becoming frustrated and embittered by the waste and needless worry that he is documenting. A personal anecdote about an unwise foray into a Nigerian slum in search of a stolen wallet disposes of the idea that the author is immune to the foibles he describes. What could easily have been a catalogue of misgovernance and stupidity instead becomes a cheery corrective to modern paranoia.”
--The Economist

“Those of us who spend our careers in research hope that someone like Daniel Gardner will come along and bring our findings to the world in an engaging and scientifically accurate way. Thank you, Dan! Some books can change the world. This one might.”
--Paul Slovic, Professor of Psychology, University of Oregon, past President of The Society for Risk Analysis

“Fear needs a science and Daniel Gardner offers a fast-paced tour of what the most interesting researchers have revealed. The number of things that you don't need to be afraid of is encouraging, but finding out why we still do fear them anyway is fascinating. Essential reading for anyone interested in the social mistakes we make everyday--and how to fix them.”
--Tyler Cowen, author of Discover Your Inner Economist

“An invaluable resource for anyone who aspires to think clearly.”
--The Guardian “Elegantly summarises the results of psychological research … Gardner is forensic in his dissection of bogus claims in advertising and politics, just as he is lucid about the science explaining why they work.”
--The Observer

It looks as if one more slot has been filled by those masters of power, The Order.

The Skull & Bones 322 and why America Celebrated the Passage of the Healthcare Bill on 3/22

For those who do not know it, those we call Skull and Bones call themselves, The Order.

Right and Left : A Control Mechanism of the Skull and Bones Society, the Order of Chaos

Just how many states are trying to get this over-turned?

Virginia is definitely on this list.

Or so CNN says.

Virginia Governor To Sign Law Firing Back At Health Care Bill

CNN Political Ticker

(CNN) - A day after President Obama signed the health care reform bill, Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell will put his signature Wednesday on legislation to outlaw the federal government from forcing state residents to purchase health insurance.

The Virginia measure, passed by the state's general assembly last month, directly conflicts with the new federal mandates that all Americans purchase some form of health insurance starting in 2014.

In an effort to sustain the Virginia law, the state's attorney general, Ken Cuccinelli, filed a lawsuit Tuesday in federal district court in Richmond arguing the federal insurance law is an unconstitutional overreach of Congressional power.

(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 24-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

I don't understand why so many people are shocked this passed.The game is fixed and all protests are pointless.Leo and it's all the American peoples fault they follow whoever waves the flag and claim to be the answer to all the nation's problem.

Originally posted by centurion1211
In canada they have money to finance their socialist agenda because they depend on the U.S. to defend them. Cuts way down on their defense costs. And they get to (ignorantly) tell us how great they have it and how we do everything all wrong.

I was unaware that Canada had any US Military Bases...perhaps you would like to provide a link?....Zip as far as I am aware. Saudi Arabia? Yes, as well as South Korea, Kyrgyzstan, Spain, Germany, Turkey etc. etc. And of course at present Afghanistan and Iraq...but not Canada.

Canada has Joint Forces/Nato bases, no US Military installations.

If you implying that they somehow benefit financially from being in proximity to the US and somehow are flush with cash as a result...Why don't we see similiar fortune for Mexico? Or South America? Or any other land mass that the US would have issue with if the Russians decided to set up camp?

Is it possible that the Canadians are just much less militaristic than the US? Less likely to spend Billions annually invading countries on the other side of the globe?

Just thought I'd interject some logic ...though I know you are not a fan of it.

Disassembling the dissembling:

Originally posted by Alxandro

* We the People of the United States - are pissed [ALL of the people? No.]
* a more perfect Union - Ha, yeah right [That's it? You got nothing more than that?]
* establish Justice - more like injustice [Ooh - BURNED]
* domestic Tranquility - plenty are pissed [And still will whine and complain without doing anything meaningful]
* provide for the common defence - hard to do when one continues to bow [I think we still have a military]
* promote the general Welfare - or rather, welfare state [Uh, that's part of promoting the general Welfare]
* the Blessings of Liberty - What Liberty when you have a gun to your head to purchase health insurance [A gun to your head. Right. That's EXACTLY what it is. Hyperbole much?]
* establish this Constitution for the United States of America - nothing about healthcare in the Constitution. [You JUST MENTIONED the "general Welfare" clause]

And as for "there's nothing about healthcare in the Constitution..." there's also no:

* Interstate Highway System (unless you count "post roads," and if you do you shouldn't have a problem with healthcare being counted under "general Welfare).
* Public education
* The Air Force
* Freedom of expression
* God
* "Innocent until proven guilty"
* A jury of your peers
* The right to marriage
* The right to procreate
* The right to a FAIR trial
* "No taxation without representation"
* Right to privacy
* Right to travel
* Right to vote




[edit on 24-3-2010 by mothershipzeta]

Originally posted by EndtheFed
70-80% of the people didn't want this Obamacare. An overwhelming majority of the people were against the banker bailouts. A majority of Americans are against illegal immigration. Most people are against NAFTA and GATT. Most are now against the Patriot Act. Most are against all the wars.

We no longer have a representative Republic. We now live under a tyrannical government that no longer cares what the people think or want. It does what it wants and the people be damned.

Damn straight.

Those of you who keep supporting the GOP & DNC: THIS IS WHAT YOU GET hahaha!!! love it, hug it, scratch your back with it.. suck on it because you both own it... along with a million violently dead strangers killed thanks to your votes.

I sleep a lot better knowing I rejected these violent control freak insults to humanity & intelligence.

I find the whole health insurance "choice" argument to be hilarious and absurd.. given that 300+ million people only have 2 choices in politics: dumb criminal & dumber thief... the 2 party lack of choice is the most insulting limitation of all and it the root of all the other erosions we are witnessing today.

Healthcare for all is a fantastic idea for the people.. but the DC mafia doesn't do fantastic things for us.. they serve their shadowy overlords... who is unaware of this? the solution has always been simple: vote 3rd party.

I love this healthcare bill, LOVE IT.. its another "F U" to the masses, and a fat nail in the establishments coffin... it moves the fed govt one more yard to the endzone of collapse... and just maybe will wake up a few people to the fact re-cycling failed political parties = garbage in, garbage out.

reply to post by maybereal11


What is Canada's military budget as a percentage of GDP? I am not going to speak for anyone but if you think that other country's do not get a benefit from the US military, just by our very existence, you are mistaken.

I cannot seem to find a list of US bases in Canada. I can find them of other countries.

Anyway, some think Canada is a US military base.

From this site-Global Research

II. More than 1000 US Bases and/or Military Installations

The main sources of information on these military installations (e.g. C. Johnson, the NATO Watch Committee, the International Network for the Abolition of Foreign Military Bases) reveal that the US operates and/or controls between 700 and 800 military bases Worldwide.



In this regard, Hugh d’Andrade and Bob Wing's 2002 Map 1 entitled "U.S. Military Troops and Bases around the World, The Cost of 'Permanent War'", confirms the presence of US military personnel in 156 countries.

The US Military has bases in 63 countries. Brand new military bases have been built since September 11, 2001 in seven countries.

In total, there are 255,065 US military personnel deployed Worldwide.

These facilities include a total of 845,441 different buildings and equipments. The underlying land surface is of the order of 30 million acres. According to Gelman, who examined 2005 official Pentagon data, the US is thought to own a total of 737 bases in foreign lands. Adding to the bases inside U.S. territory, the total land area occupied by US military bases domestically within the US and internationally is of the order of 2,202,735 hectares, which makes the Pentagon one of the largest landowners worldwide (Gelman, J., 2007).

[edit on 3/24/2010 by endisnighe]

You know - its quite ironic when you consider why exactly Social Security failed.

It's actually quite sadistic.

When Social Security was passed the average life expectancy was 64 - ironically Social Security pays out at 65 (They borrowed against it dry and that wasn't supposed to be a problem because they never intended to pay it out) You people are living entirely too long.

And now a Health Care panel will eliminate that problem.

just my .02