How Dare You Mr. President and Congress...

For all you people whining about it not beeing fair that you have to pay taxes...

Being forced to pay a tax if we don't buy their insurance sounds like extortion and slavery to me;
does buying medical care vs getting taxed sound like a free world to you?

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity
generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the U.S.
Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by a municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC-regulated channels to
see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic
and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be
like, using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National
Aeronautics and Space Administration.

I watched this while eating my breakfast of U.S. Department of
Agriculture-inspected food and taking the drugs which have been
determined as safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time, as regulated by the U.S. Congress and kept
accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the
U.S. Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety
Administration-approved automobile and set out to work on the roads
build by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation,
possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level
determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender
issued by the Federal Reserve Bank.

On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via
the U.S. Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks
to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and
the Occupational Safety and Health administration, enjoying another
two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my
NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned
down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and
Fire Marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its
valuables thanks to the local police department.

And then I log on to the internet -- which was developed by the
Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration -- and post on
Freerepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine
is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

It couldn't be more clear that that healthcare isn't about healthcare. Its about controlling the people. Straight from Representative Dingells fat mouth.

www.breitbart.tv...

WHY?
Shocking Audio: Rep. Dingell Says ObamaCare Will Eventually ‘Control the People’


Surely he didn't mean it the way it sounded,

www.breitbart.tv...

"It takes time to put the legislation together to control the people."

[edit on 083131p://bWednesday2010 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by hotbakedtater

 

Just want to say that no one will deny that this bill will force you to buy insurance or pay a fine.

I have a problem with that.

Yes sir, so do I.
A very large problem with that!
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
WHY?
Shocking Audio: Rep. Dingell Says ObamaCare Will Eventually ‘Control the People’


Surely he didn't mean it the way it sounded,

www.breitbart.tv...

"It takes time to put the legislation together to control the people."

[edit on 083131p://bWednesday2010 by Stormdancer777]

I'm sure what he's going to do now is say " Let me be clear...What I've said in the past is..." Give me a break.


[edit on 24-3-2010 by Thirty_Foot_Smurf]

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I'm a bit offended by those of you who are telling him to relax.



This is WORSE than the Patriot Act.

If they are allowed to continue not listening to Americans who pay their salaries, are allowed to steal from you and give it to corporations who don't give a damn about you then you are not a patriot and do not deserve to live under the Flag you hold so dear.

Wake up America, get on the bandwagon.

Enough is enough don't you think?

I'm not even American and I am thoroughly disgusted by this sort of legislation.

~Keeper

I would add you as a friend but you're already one of them

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


I'm wondering where your thread against the Patriot Act is? I mean or the other 4 or 5 policies Bush put through while in office that were unconstitutional. Nobody seemed to care then but now that it's a guy in office who has constantly been getting slammed with # why not just throw some more at him. I'm not for or against our government, I'm for america and if you people haven't noticed most Americans are middle class or lower THE SAME EXACT PEOPLE THAT THIS HEALTHCARE BILL WILL HELP!!!!! SO I ASK EVERYONE HERE RESPONDING TO THIS THREAD, DO YOU MAKE OVER 60K A YEAR? IF NOT THEN THERE'S NOTHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by NoJoker13]

reply to post by Stormdancer777


What have I said in the past.

ALL GOVERNMENT CAN DO IS TAX OR CONTROL.

That is all this is about Tax and Control.

God save us.

Nice find Stormdancer!

reply to post by XyZeR
Some might argue:

That the Dept of Energy gave us global warming.
That the FCC sucks(Howard Stern?).
That the National Weather Service tends to be wrong with their forecasts.
That there are tons of drugs that have been recalled after injuring thousands of people, thanks to the FDA.
That the Dept of Agriculture inspectors do such a fine job that we hear of food recalls so often (contaminated with poop).
That the national highway transportation safety admin does a wicked bad job... the roads that I drive on are full of potholes.
That the US postal Service is not the best way of getting a piece of paper from one place to another for very obvious reasons.

Thank you.




[edit on 24-3-2010 by butcherguy]

reply to post by NoJoker13


Quit your Dem/Repub paradigm crap. If you want to find SKL's thread on the Patriot Act, go to his damn profile page and find it.

The other guy killed people so why can't this Admin kill people.

THAT WAS WHAT YOU JUST SAID.

Go lie down by your master's feet and stay there.

edit to add, I thought Obama gave us a promise of 250k and up. OOOOHH, that was another LIE. Just as this legislation has NOTHING to do with health care.

It is another FASCIST TAX and CONTROL bill. Just like the Federal Reserve Act, SS, Medicare, Income Tax etc etc etc.

[edit on 3/24/2010 by endisnighe]

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by hotbakedtater

 

Just want to say that no one will deny that this bill will force you to buy insurance or pay a fine.

I have a problem with that.

Pay a fine or just another time honored example of Democrats raising taxes? (in lieu of purchasing insurance).

I already pay taxes for WARS I am vehemently opposed to. If I end up having to pay more taxes because my government is attempting health care reform, I can live with that.

I could live with higher taxes for children's education, because that is another place it benefits our nation as a whole to reform.

reply to post by endisnighe


It is about tax and control, I will most likely be gone by the time the ramifications of this bill are felt by the exuberant masses.

reply to post by hotbakedtater
I am not a firm believer in letting the Feds throw money at a continuing problem in order to solve it.

They have thrown tons of money at the education problem since the LBJ administration, test scores go down...
down....
down.......

reply to post by kinda kurious

You don't have to drive a car ...so you don't have to get car insurance. Same for house etc.
But how do I not get health insurance now? Stop breathing?

Your analogy is a FAIL

It is IMPORTANT to remember that by in large the REPUBLICANS killed any chance for a Public Option which would have mitigated the "Mandatory" requirement.

Republicans' decision to make the public option the focus of their efforts to defeat President Obama's health care plan may look like sound political strategy from afar but it runs the risk of distracting voters from arguments against the proposal based on more GOP-friendly issues like taxes and spending.

Source

8 in 10 Back Public Option

Source

Related:

Bush speechwriter: Healthcare defeat "our Waterloo"

Source

Those who are complaining the loudest would do well by remembering this pesky little FACT.


[edit on 24-3-2010 by kinda kurious]

Well, this thread did something I did not expect, actual conversation verses partisan rhetoric.

For those who have asked, I post from the library, or at McDonalds.

For those who have suggested I move you obviously do not understand, if I cannot afford to pay rent, and I am working a job that barely pays what few bills I have, then moving sure is not going to help, if I have not secured a means to pay those bills already, ahead of time.

For the few who went off on a Republicans wanted special interest groups to do something else, if you honestly believe the Democrats did not do the same exact thing, behind closed doors, you are obviously not paying attention.

This thread is not about partisan rhetoric, my commenting here is about America, as a whole, and the constant division I see within it, with people leaning to the "left-wing", or leaning to the "right-wing".

Guess what people, if we have a right-wing/left-wing mentality, how on Earth can we actually flap both wings and fly, because if we have wings, we are speaking of the American eagle, the bird that represents our nation.

And if we keep up this nonsense of wings against each other, we are no eagle.

We are a turkey, grounded, against each other, Healthcare Reform, or otherwise.

If anyone has bothered to read the entire Healthcare Reform you might notice a few troubling things, like the I.R.S. being involved in it, which is those people from the wonderful Treasury Department, you know, the people responsible for investigating counterfeiting and potential leads towards a Presidential assassination, and the people send you your tax-refund.

Healthcare has what to do with Treasury?

Quote from : Wikipedia : United States Department of the Treasury

The Department of the Treasury is an executive department and the treasury of the United States federal government.

It was established by an Act of Congress in 1789 to manage government revenue.

The Department is administered by the Secretary of the Treasury, who is a member of the Cabinet.

The first Secretary of the Treasury was Alexander Hamilton, who was sworn into office on September 11, 1789.

Hamilton was asked by President George Washington to serve after first having asked Robert Morris (who declined, recommending Hamilton instead).

Hamilton almost single-handedly worked out the nation's early financial system, and for several years was a major presence in Washington's administration as well.

His portrait is on the obverse of the U.S. ten-dollar bill and the Treasury Department building is shown on the reverse.

Besides the Secretary, one of the best-known Treasury officials is the Treasurer of the United States, who receives and keeps the money of the U.S. Facsimile signatures of the Secretary and the Treasurer appear on all modern U.S. currency.

The Treasury prints and mints all paper currency and coins in circulation through the Bureau of Engraving and Printing and the United States Mint.

The Department also collects all federal taxes through the Internal Revenue Service, and manages U.S. government debt instruments.

Nothing.

However, it does, when they are hiding something amidst the entire bill.

As well as when it syncs up with other bills.

Don't believe me?

Fine, believe what you want, but I can prove it.

Healthcare Reform, REAL ID Act, and Bailout Package Sync Up

Look to the language of those particular actions those people in Washington D.C. are committing to, do not let it slip by, because it is moving us closer to the very thing over half of you complain about, the R.F.I.D. chip.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/338cc3d8b0fa.jpg[/atsimg]

It is through Verichip, Digital Angel, Applied Digital Solutions, Destron Fearing, and these bills, laws, and acts that they are pushing us further and further into accepting this chip.

Quote from : Destron Fearing

Destron Fearing is a global leader in innovative animal identification.

With presence in over 40 countries worldwide we seek to provide real world ID solutions to match the ever increasing complexity and opportunities related to animal identification.

Since 1945 we have provided innovative products addressing the needs of livestock producers, companion animal owners, horse owners, wildlife managers and government agencies.

Destron Fearing provides a full complement of radio frequency identification products and software solutions to automate the collection of critical livestock production and carcass information.

Individual and herd information can then be easily transferred between all parties involved in the production and retail of meat products.

Information sharing allows the food industry to meet the discriminating demands of the market place.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8aaa65ce678a.jpg[/atsimg]

Do not just take my word for it, go read up on Katherine Albrecht's website.

Spy Chips

Reality Report Special Interview- Katherine Albrecht


REALITY REPORT - Katherine Albrecht Special Interview 2


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3217db5a4826.jpg[/atsimg]

Still not listening?

Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

I wondering where your thread against the Patriot Act is? I mean or the other 4 or 5 policies Bush put through while in office that were unconstitutional. Nobody seemed to care then but now that it's a guy in office who has constantly been getting slammed with # why not just throw some more at him. I'm not for or against our government, I'm for america and if you people haven't noticed most Americans are middle class or lower THE SAME EXACT PEOPLE THAT THIS HEALTHCARE BILL WILL HELP!!!!! SO I ASK EVERYONE HERE RESPONDING TO THIS THREAD, DO YOU MAKE OVER 60K A YEAR? IF NOT THEN THERE'S NOTHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT.

Since you asked, I never did a thread, specifically about the Patriot Act.

But I know the act quite well in fact as I've read everything about it.

I did however do a thread thrashing Bush and Congress during that time, pre-Obama.

Political Collusion of a President and Congress in Collapsing America, The Fall of the New Rome

Did you honestly believe this was a thread just railing about Obama and Congress?

It is not, I assure you, I have read the bills, laws, acts passed and I know of what I speak.

This is just another aspect of what the Bilderberg Group is doing too.

Bilderberger : The Global Agenda, Eugenics, Global Warming, And Biochiping Sheeple

Think it's because I do not like Obama because he's black?

I assure you that you are mistaken there as well.

I cannot stand the man because he speaks in cotton candy words not because of his skin color, so before you believe I am speaking against someone for anything other than the actual issues, actually read those things I write.

Racism : Self-Empowerment or Being an Ignorant Bully, and Suppressing Freedom

I railed against Bush harder than I have against Obama, so far, but I am getting warmed up now, and it is not about the man, it is about the fact that our representatives are not representing us, as a whole.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by Chett
reply to post by kinda kurious

 

You don't have to drive a car ...so you don't have to get car insurance. Same for house etc.
But how do I not get health insurance now? Stop breathing?

Your analogy is a FAIL

Unfortunately, some people do need a car to get to the 2-3 jobs they have to have in order to pay the bills. Buses are unreliable and can be a hazard in that being late for work is grounds for dismissal. And that is IF you actually have a bus service in your area (which may have been eliminated due to spending cuts). Sure you can suggest moving to an area with a better transit system, but if you are working 2 jobs just to maintain, the cost both in time and $$ makes that just a dream. So a car does in fact become a need and with it, mandatory insurance.

Look, the USA spends trillions on military purposes for things that I am told are necessary and we grumble over, but nothing more. Yet, till now, have turned a blind eye on the ill of the working and lower classes who hold jobs that either do not or can not offer health packages. So now that the gov't has decided to act, even in questionable ways, to attain some semblance of public good (much in the way of clean water, trash pickup, working roads), now we are going to burn down D.C.? We don't care that our Bill of Rights was neutered, don't care about any of my personal freedoms that are brushed aside under the banner of terrorism and its for our own good, just don't tax me bro. Its no wonder the world views the USA in a bad light.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Okay SKL, I just had a mild epiphany. I have been seeing a large increase in cash, under the table business.

Have we reached the perfect storm?

The sovereignty movement and the black markets, were the way a large number of people have opted out of the system. Hell, it may be a small component of the government's funding problems.

There are certain things that government's can implement to control society completely. Food, shelter, currency and a couple more items.

You have hit it with the RFID and those control parameters. Have you brought into the conversation cash or currency?

What if the government makes CASH illegal? What if they make barter illegal or almost impossible to do?

That would remove the last of our freedom.

A cashless society is a slave state.

I am really getting a bad feeling on these moves being done to destroy the economy. You know and I know everything they are doing is tanking the economy. They have economists. They know what happens when these things are done. I think you are absolutely correct in regards to the chip endgame. It will be everything, money, id, medical records, etc etc etc.

But first, they KNOW we do not want this, so what do they do?

Force us to want it. People just cannot see the endgame.

As always, excellent breakdown and topic.

Secession and sovereignty may be our only option left to fight back. The first state that begins to implement it I am heading there.

Be safe.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Sometimes medicine tastes nasty.

What is wrong with children covered for pre-existing conditions instead of getting booted off health plans like they do now?

What is wrong with parents being able to keep their kids insured until 26 years old and kids not having to worry about paying until then?

What is wrong with donut hole being closed so seniors between 50 and 60 can get coverage at all. People keep saying this is free health care and debate whether or not it is a right. IT IS ACCESS TO AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE. Right now all people rich and poor go to the hospital emergency room. This hurts peoples odds of getting treatment in real emergencies in these facilities.

What is wrong with seniors getting free diagnostic testing so that instead of paying to cure an illness we are paying a small percentage to prevent it?

This is good math.
Now people pay nothing and take up room in the emergency.

Every one right now GETS ambulance service and medical care and what do they pay?

Some pay for all of them.....while the rest pay nothing. What is wrong with spreading the cost and making the rest pay too?

When someone cannot pay all of us pay top dollar for these services to be given these people right NOW.

How long did you think THIS was tenable?

Why not charge for anticipated use of public health services like emergency rooms doctors and emergency transportation? It is not unheard of and makes perfect sense unless you are contrary for contrary's sake.
You pay a highway tax. You pay a school tax so somebody else s kids can get an education.

Who doesn't need emergency services?
Who might choose to OPT OUT of receiving emergency service?

Why not take the money you saved in co-pays for 4 years and plop it down toward the mandated insurance?

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

This all of a sudden, did not become untrue.
Regular preventative testing is included for free.
We all pay for treatment and diagnoses of people when they reach the stage of full blown illness.
For eons people have cried...What a shame we didn't catch little things while they were still little things and cheap to fix?

If you are footing the bill (and make no mistake you are) it might interest you to know: Not only is this most sane and economical way to tackle disease and illness in this country, It is the most humane, effective, merciful and in the best interests of all persons health.

Did you think there was not enough money to be found in waste in medicine to be removed to pay for these programs and more many times over? Do you know what they were charging for things, ordinary things like band aids and aspirin?

Not enough people over prescribed and dead yet?

Easy to see we do not have a handle on the medical system of delivering wellness here in America.

Do me a favor all of you. I have noticed there are operations (yes operations and medical procedures) which become "vogue" and popularly picked up by the medical community.
Years ago women would have hysterectomies on one mans say so.
It has not changed today. Please pay attention, listen to the friends among you and notice how many people all of a sudden getting their SPLEENS REMOVED.

What ever we were doing...not working. We have all known this for quite some time.
Let's give sanity and common sense a chance to play out here before you snatch it back... on principal.

...on GOP, "don't let the man win on anything for four years"... talking points... principal.

reply to post by rusethorcain


Wow, the dying children! The poor elderly!

What other argument are you going to bring to the table?

See, the government does not argue that they need YOUR money and YOUR liberty to control YOU. They use all of these FEEL GOOD arguments that take YOUR wits away from you.

What was wrong with the healthcare field 40 years ago? Huh?

People keep trying to argue that the system is broken so we have to change it.

OKAY! Change it back to what it was before the DAMN government destroyed it!

I do not want to live in a 6x9 apartment going to my job of placing a square peg in a square hole.

I do not want the government to decide every DAMN thing for me.

Your platitudes will not sway people that want to be free and are not afraid of the BIG BAD WOLF.

What ever BBW you bring to the table, I DO NOT CARE, I do not live in fear of nothing.

Here is a quote for you that will resound again.

If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us in peace. We seek not your council, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.