Opinions Turn Favorable On Health Care Plan

Originally posted by maybereal11
reply to post by joey_hv

 

Those numbers have been fudged and cherry picked. I went through those polls on another thread. Realclearpolitics...is anything but..

RealClearPolitics is an American conservative-leaning[2] political blog, news and polling data aggregator which claims to be non-partisan

en.wikipedia.org...

BS. Those numbers are accurate. You made the assertion that the numbers are cherrypicked and fudged. Prove it, or you are trolling.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

How many death threats? 10? Do you realize what a small number that is compared to the people who are involved in the health care debate?

ONLY 10? Then why are the folks in the media making a big deal out of it?
Oh, I forgot, it's their job to sensationlize anything that goes against Obama's agenda.

Never seen the likes of before??? You must be kidding. Or you must be young. Have you read history? Does the civil rights era mean anything to you? JFK? This is nothing compared to the 50s and 60s.

Well I'm not that young since I barely remember the 60's.
Ok, I'll give you that one for now, but stand by.

I agree that the opinion polls mean nothing and I have said so several times in this thread, but just because some nut-jobs are making death threats doesn't mean that HCR is unpopular.

I don't understand.
If polls don't mean anything, then why did you start a thread about a poll?

Originally posted by jerico65
And one question to those that think this is a great idea:

Do you all really consider a 26 year old to still be a kid???? Sorry, time to start bricking up the basement.

18-26 timeframe in a young adults life is a strange one...you do the college thing and then spend time after seeking out your very first job. You think about health care cover as much as you think about social security considering your pretty immortal during this time in your life.

They are the least burden on the health care system. The only time they need health care is out of accidents, or some rare genetic disorder..but for the most part, they ignore getting health care. The problem with this is that, when they do need health care, they tend to need alot of it all of a sudden and a few weeks laying in the hospital can ruin a uninsured person for a lifetime.

health care reform isn't encouraging waynes world mentality...its putting sky is falling thin net over the heads of those whom otherwise would completely ignore it, and then when hurt, would end up causing default...in which the government would end up paying for it anyhow by default, and at much higher rates.

The omg, 26 year olds living off mom and dads insurance = lazy country argument is paper thin. I listened to Dennis Miller's talk show (continuously amused at how much he has fallen intellectually to rely almost completely on strawman arguements in 10 short years). I suggest to take him with a grain of salt.

reply to post by justinsweatt



I'm not really sure the source of your information but here is what I can find. Everything I see about the estate tax, is for net values OVER $1million.


Bankrate.com


Ah ha, I just found out where you got your information...Wiki! Did you not notice the last paragraph of your post?

Although the above tax table looks like a system of progressive tax rates, there is a unified credit against the tentative tax which effectively eliminates any tax on the first $3,500,000 of the estate (or the first $3,500,000 on a combination of taxable gifts during lifetime and a taxable estate at death), so the federal estate tax is effectively a flat tax of 45% once the unified credit exclusion amount has been exhausted.

So there is a credit to offset this tax up, $3.5million. So anyone whose estate is valued below that value

Seems you missed this part of your own source as well:

For a person dying during 2006, 2007, or 2008, the "applicable exclusion amount" is $2,000,000, so if the sum of the taxable estate plus the "adjusted taxable gifts" made during lifetime equals $2,000,000 or less, there is no federal estate tax to pay.

Wiki-Estate tax

So again, I will say. The lack of understanding amazes me.

But by all means keep believing that everyone has an opportunity to become a millionaire. While there are exceptions, statistically, the vast majority >95% will never be a millionaire.

Originally posted by Alxandro
I don't understand.
If polls don't mean anything, then why did you start a thread about a poll?

To show how quickly they change and how undependable they are.

From my post on the first page:

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Yes, polls are pretty much worthless. I'm not making the claim that Americans have suddenly changed their minds. My point here is that these polls, as well as the ones that had Americans up in arms about the health care plan yesterday, cannot be trusted.

You assume way too much about my point of view, just because I post a thread. Read a little bit before making your assumptions.

Click here for more information.

Courtesy Is Mandatory

Thanks to everyone who doesn't need to be reminded.

reply to post by justinsweatt


I do not approve of your name calling and it violates the terms and conditions of this site. Just because you edit your curse word does not mean you are not name calling and attacking me.

I'm sure a mod will step in and edit your post to expose your violation.

I am done talking about the estate tax, because I do not wish to derail BH's excellent thread on the error and manipulation of polling.

Regards

reply to post by iamcamouflage

Please don't be discouraged from posting by the misconduct of others.

Should you encounter a post that violates the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use, please ALERT it and let us know.

Sometimes it takes a while, but when we are ALERTed to a problem, we do our best to resolve it properly.

Now if you'll forgive my own off-topic digression, let's all please do our best to stay on topic.

Originally posted by sos37

Originally posted by maybereal11
reply to post by joey_hv

 

Those numbers have been fudged and cherry picked. I went through those polls on another thread. Realclearpolitics...is anything but..

RealClearPolitics is an American conservative-leaning[2] political blog, news and polling data aggregator which claims to be non-partisan

en.wikipedia.org...

BS. Those numbers are accurate. You made the assertion that the numbers are cherrypicked and fudged. Prove it, or you are trolling.

Sure...I already delved into the actual polls/questions and numbers on another thread...see these posts...In the polls I examined from "realclearpolitics" The polls were cherry picked, results and questions misrepresented.

post by maybereal11

post by maybereal11

post by maybereal11




[edit on 26-3-2010 by maybereal11]

[edit on 26-3-2010 by maybereal11]

[edit on 26-3-2010 by maybereal11]

if this bill is so popular why has there been a huge increase in death threats to the democrooks?

Originally posted by neo96
if this bill is so popular why has there been a huge increase in death threats to the democrooks?

The bill is popular WITH the democrats and progressives. It's the GOP and tea partiers who are making the death threats, throwing bricks and basically throwing temper tantrums. I thought that was self-evident.

equivocating the tea parties with the death threats is like syaing all liberals are like bill aryes.


how many teaparty members have killed people? or blown up buildings?

dont even say mcveigh that was one dude out of 20 years 1

historically its always been the extreme left wing who have been the most violent and even today.

Originally posted by Alxandro
Then why are the folks in the media making a big deal out of it?

Because it is, for somebody out there: WTF Did Biden Just Say? (follow the money trail)

Originally posted by neo96
equivocating the tea parties with the death threats is like syaing all liberals are like bill aryes.


how many teaparty members have killed people? or blown up buildings?

dont even say mcveigh that was one dude out of 20 years 1

historically its always been the extreme left wing who have been the most violent and even today.

Good arguement...quick, to the point, fact free, and smells great.

The only slight flaw is the mountain of evidence proving just how incredibly incorrect you are.

Murders
In the U.S., violence directed toward abortion providers has killed at least eight people, including four doctors, two clinic employees, a security guard, and a clinic escort.[5]

March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of 1992. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Dr. Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.
August 21, 1993 Dr. George Patterson, was shot and killed in Mobile, Alabama, but it is uncertain whether his death was the direct result of his profession or rather a robbery.[6] [7]
July 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside of another facility in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings. Hill received a death sentence and was executed September 3, 2003.
December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi, who prior to his arrest was distributing pamphlets from Human Life International,[8] was arrested and confessed to the killings. He died in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.
January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed. Eric Robert Rudolph, who was also responsible for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, was charged with the crime and received two life sentences as a result.
October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death at his home in Amherst, New York. His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Dr. Slepian's murder after finally being apprehended in France in 2001.
May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed as he served as an usher at his church in Wichita, Kansas.[9]
[edit] Attempted murder, assault, and threats
According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers.[10] Attempted murders in the U.S. included:[5][11][12]

August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence (20 years were later added for arson and acid attacks on clinics).
July 29, 1994: June Barret was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.
December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.
October 28, 1997: Dr. David Gandell of Rochester, New York was injured by flying glass when a shot was fired through the window of his home.[13]
January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured, and lost an eye, in the bombing which also killed Robert Sanderson.
[edit] Anthrax threats
The first hoax letters claiming to contain anthrax were mailed to U.S. clinics in October 1998, a few days after the Slepian shooting; since then, there have been 655 such bioterror threats made against abortion providers. None of the "anthrax" in these cases was real.[11][14]

November 2001: After the genuine 2001 anthrax attacks, Clayton Waagner mailed hoax letters containing a white powder to 554 clinics. On December 3, 2003, Waagner was convicted of 51 charges relating to the anthrax scare.
[edit] Arson, bombing, and property crime
According to NAF, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, property crimes committed against abortion providers have included 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons, 619 bomb threats, 1630 incidents of trespassing, 1264 incidents of vandalism, and 100 attacks with butyric acid ("stink bombs").[10] The first clinic arson occurred in Oregon in March 1976 and the first bombing occurred in February 1978 in Ohio.[15] More recent incidents have included:[5]

December 25, 1984: An abortion clinic and two physicians' offices in Pensacola, Florida were bombed in the early morning of Christmas Day by a quartet of young people (Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins) who later called the bombings "a gift to Jesus on his birthday."[16][17][18]
October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, causing US$100 worth of damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.[19]
May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire on resulted in damage estimated at US$20,000. The case remains unsolved.[20]
September 30, 2000: A Catholic priest drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an ax before being shot at by a security guard.[21]
June 11, 2001: An unsolved bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington destroyed a wall, resulting in US$6000 in damages.[19]
July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida was the target of an arson. The case remains open.[19]
December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year. Hughes claimed the bomb was a “memorial lamp” for an abortion she had had there.[22]
September 13, 2006 David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan crashed his car into the Edgerton Women's Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and then started a fire. McMenemy committed these acts in the belief that the center was performing abortions, however Edgerton is not an abortion clinic.[23]
April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device after evacuating the building. Paul Ross Evans (who had a criminal record for armed robbery and theft) was found guilty of the crime.[24]
May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.[25]
December 6, 2007: Chad Altman and Sergio Baca were arrested for the arson of Dr. Curtis Boyd's clinic in Albuquerque. Altman’s girlfriend had scheduled an appointment for an abortion at the clinic.[26]
January 22, 2009 Matthew L. Derosia, 32, who was reported to have had a history of mental illness [27] rammed a SUV into the front entrance of a Planned Parenthood clinic in St. Paul, Minnesota.[28]

From t3h wiki

Now, thats just anti-abortion...what about them gays...

It turns out that the violent and deadly attack on Liberal Unitarian Universalists who supported Gay Rights was yet another Right Wing Gun Toting Conservative attack. So, yesterday's violence can be added to another suspected case of a similar nature, the murder several days ago of a trans-gender student in Colorado.

Jim D. Adkisson, 58, ranted that "liberals and gays" taking jobs had prevented him from finding work. He wrote that he expected to keep shooting parishioners until the police showed up and killed him, Knoxville, Tenn., Police Chief Sterling Owen told a news conference. source
and in Colorado:



An 18-year-old found dead inside her Colorado apartment last week may have been targeted because she was transgender, police said. ...

Born a male, Justin Zapata, 18, identified herself as a woman and was known to family and friends as Angie. Her body was found in her apartment a week ago, with wounds to the head and face, police say.

Lets see how many people died from Bill Ayres then...
1 guy indirectly from one of the weather underground bombings he was tied to...a anti-vietnam movement.

Now...lets talk about Tim McVeign...

Face it, there is clearly a movement extremism from a certain fringe party that believes if they do not get their way, life becomes cheap. Curiously enough, this party pretends to be the moral fiber and god fearing party also.

I call bullpucky.

Judge a tree by the fruit it bears.

Originally posted by neo96
equivocating the tea parties with the death threats is like syaing all liberals are like bill aryes.

1. Look up equivocate.
2. I didn't say that ALL tea partiers are making death threats. I think it's pretty safe to assume that those who perpetrated violence against the Democrats who voted FOR the bill are some of the same people who are so vehemently against HCR (the tea partiers and GOP)

how many teaparty members have killed people? or blown up buildings?

I have no idea. Do you know?

dont even say mcveigh that was one dude out of 20 years 1

I would never say that. I don't even know what it means.

historically its always been the extreme left wing who have been the most violent and even today.

Uh-HUH. All righty. Have a nice day.

Let's try a little harder to keep this thread on topic, OK?

[edit on 3/26/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by neo96
if this bill is so popular why has there been a huge increase in death threats to the democrooks?

The bill is popular WITH the democrats and progressives. It's the GOP and tea partiers who are making the death threats, throwing bricks and basically throwing temper tantrums. I thought that was self-evident.

you said it......

Well, well, well! That didn't take long at all. The disparity between those favoring versus those opposed seems to be GROWING yet again! Accorinding to Data released on Pollster.com support for the healthcare bill has started to suddenly drop off again while opposition continues to increase.

Now, just to clear a few things up for your partisan hacks that believe the data was cherry picked - this data represents the MOST THOROUGH AND ACCURATE data available regarding public opinion of HCR. This is a statistical analysis of ALL of the opinion polls COMBINED! The sample is absolutely HUGE and the data extremely valid and reliable. It clearly shows the opinions on a totally DIVERGENT course with a great majority opposing the bill. Simply put, this spells terrible news for the Democrats that voted for this thing. As more of the secret deals are illuminated and more of the gross negligence and mistakes uncovered, I fully expect to see an exceleration in this divergence. Prediction, November ain't gonna be pretty for the Democrats!