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Baby Bible Bashers, Christian child abuse?

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posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 04:37 AM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


I thought your god was all loving?

I thought he said to hate the sin and not the sinner?

Am I wrong?




posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 04:55 AM
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It's an interesting concept, creating something in order to hate it.
reply to post by TELEX
 


Well here's a better one for ya. Creating something, giving it a free gift of life. Free will, even a shot at immortality. Then watch as they fall under the influence of some one who gave them nothing. Is not there God dosn't have there best interests in mind. Who in fact hates them and wants to kill
'em.
You for instance. A full on hypocrate. Very sad excuse for a human being
I'm sure.

Or for that matter creating something that becomes an abomination
and having to toss it on the fire.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by randyvs]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 04:59 AM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 





Am I wrong?

I won't answer a question with a question. So yes you are wrong.
If you think that applies to pedophiles you are wrong .
You mean you can't use your own head and figure that? Cause that's all I'm doing.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by randyvs]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 05:03 AM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 





Am I wrong?

I won't answer a question with a question. So yes you are wrong.
If you think that applies to pedophiles you are wrong .
You mean you can't use your own head and figure that? Cause that's all I'm doing.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by randyvs]


My own head only tells me how I think I should feel about pedophiles.

I have gone through the bible and I keep finding god is love and loves all and forgives all who repent. He even says, as I pointed out, to hate the sin and NOT THE SINNER.

I did not expect a question as an answer but maybe something substantial would be nice. Just telling me I am wrong sounds great and all but I am actually telling you what I read. How about you tell me what you read that is different.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 05:11 AM
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If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God." Acts 2:21 (NIV): "And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


At this point you are no longer a pedophile. But you can bet that if you are a pedophile or gay your not apart of that loving thing.
Also I believe pedophilia is more of a sickness then a choice so I don't
think pedophilia is a mortal sin.
To be able to forgive so much I think holds very true to your point.

Suicide for instance is a mortal sin.

You do see the difference?
Everyone who calls on the name of the lord.
See what I mean about the blood being more powerful than even the church gives credit?

I know you didn't expect a question. That was just the first thing that came to mind.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by randyvs]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by randyvs


If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God." Acts 2:21 (NIV): "And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


At this point you are no longer a pedophile. But you can bet that if you are a pedophile or gay your not apart of that loving thing.
Also I believe pedophilia is more of a sickness then a choice so I don't
think pedophilia is a mortal sin.
To be able to forgive so much I think holds very true to your point.

Suicide for instance is a mortal sin.

You do see the difference?
Everyone who calls on the name of the lord.
See what I mean about the blood being more powerful than even the church gives credit?

[edit on 25-3-2010 by randyvs]


I am not really sure what you are saying. I was not asking about the difference between one sin and a mortal sin. You said you hate pedophiles and so does god. I asked you to please show me where your god claims to hate anyone. I know he said hate the sin and not the sinner and you are welcome to correct me on that.

If not, then can you show me where he is shown to have said otherwise?

Not interested in the levels of sin, just whether or not god hates people. Can you show me some quotes about god hating people?

Actually, no I do not see what you mean about blood. Sorry, I just must be missing the point of that.


[edit on 25-3-2010 by K J Gunderson]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 05:36 AM
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"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." —Jude 1:7
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


Dosn't sound like love does it.
There's more.




"For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."



As it is written,
But who so shall cause one of these little ones
that believe on me to stumble,
it is profitable for him
that a great millstone
should be hanged about his neck,
and that he should be sunk in the depth of the sea.

If your asking me to find the word hate. As in God said he hates this or that. There are a few occurances I have read they will be hard for me to find though. I did my best to show you there will be judgement. I think
you can see it's not all about love.
But I believe the blood is powerful enough that all could be saved if all would only choose to be.




Children, it is the last hour! As you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come.... Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; everyone who confesses the Son has the Father also. (1 John 2:18,22,23 NRSV)




[edit on 25-3-2010 by randyvs]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 06:53 AM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 




Actually, no I do not see what you mean about blood. Sorry, I just must be missing the point of that.




Do not be deceived: no sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals [i.e. practising], thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, or swindlers will inherit God's kingdom. Some of you were like this; but you were washed, you were sanctified [=set apart to live God's way], you were justified [=made acceptable to God] in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Made acceptable to God by the blood.
As an all loving God would do, he has provided a way.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by randyvs]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:32 AM
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reply to post by randyvs
 





Creating something, giving it a free gift of life. Free will, even a shot at immortality.



Again, you've skirt around how it is possible for the creator of all that there is,was or will ever be to not be the creator of a portion of its' creation.

In order for the creation to act in a manner contrary to the will of its' creator then the impetus for this has to be created somewhere.








Then watch as they fall under the influence of some one who gave them nothing.


And who exactly is this "someone" what is the source of the him/her ? Indeed how is it possible that this someone can exist in the created if it not created by the creator ?


If your god is the source of all that there is was or ever will be then "nothing" can be not of the source be it good,evil, a thought a sound or a giraffe.






Is not there God dosn't have there best interests in mind. Who in fact hates them and wants to kill 'em.



How is it possible for the creator of all that there is to have the best interest of something in mind ? You're talking about an omniscient being here you can't have a question mark over the security of it's creation. Something is or it is not, security is merely a human concept describing a fear or uncertainty of the future. How is it possible for the omniscient to be uncertain ?






You for instance. A full on hypocrate. Very sad excuse for a human being I'm sure.

Resorting to personal attack deedifies yourself, I suppose one could expect it from an atheist under the influence of demons and devils but when it comes from those that lay claim to revealed knowledge it is somewhat revelatory.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by TELEX]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:50 AM
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You could almost imagine this dialogue taking place in a bar. Religion being one of the three staples of conversation. Politics and sex being the others.

Some ATS members sure have some strong convictions and that's a good thing. How many of you guys are parents and would you allow your children to preach, perform in beauty pageants or be taught creationism in the same was as the museum episode?



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 07:56 AM
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reply to post by randyvs
 





If your asking me to find the word hate. As in God said he hates this or that. There are a few occurances I have read they will be hard for me to find though.

Maybe I can help you out here, It is the general consensus that hate is pretty much a bad thing and therefore has its' root in what is "not good" .
Now it is claimed that what is not good has its' root in evil , so we could simply blame Satan for hate. However satan (and therefore evil) has to have been created and lo and behold god created him/it.

This is borne out by the very fact that god openly admits to being the author of evil -



I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, KJV)

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6, KJV)

Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? (Lamentations 3:38)



So there you go your god created pedophilia and as the creator of all that there is, is by proxy the creator of the pedophile.

Your average child raping priest can feel quite at eas knowing that he was ordained by his maker to do what he does, sick no ?


The alternative of course is that god is imaginary and humans sometimes do things that hurt other people because they have a screw loose.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 08:11 AM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 





Actually, no I do not see what you mean about blood.


The blood thing was a throw back to the roots of Judaism in Egypt, where the blood of the sacrifice (commonly bovine) was smeared on the temple pillars.

The cannibalistic nature of the Eucharist/communion was also practiced by other religions, I don;t have time to go into detail at the mo but could dig the info out later if you want.

What is notable is that the consumption of blood was probably the biggest sin you could commit resulting in yahwhes worst punishment ie turning his face against the perpetrator.

Yahwhe did not at any time revoke the law against the consumption of blood so pretending to drink the blood of his only begotten one of his sons must piss him off no end.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by wylekat
 


A question for you. How do you make someone feel guilty if they are not guilty?



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by Equinox99
Teaching them morals in the bible and making them preach is a whole different story. I bet you those kids don't understand 3/4 of what is in the bible. They don't have the experience to be able to understand what the real message is behind the teachings. I am 23 and have a hard time finding the message in the bible. What makes you think a 10 year old will understand it?

The best way to practice the bible is through experience. Take for example, someone who has been working in a trade for years who has built up experience vs someone fresh out of college. The person from college can tell you the theory but will generally have a harder time applying it to real life. With experience you gain the ability to understand things to a greater extent.

I think this makes sense.



Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
Luke 18:17



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Donny 4 million
 


No facts aren't "temporary best guesses". We have carbon dating that's been proven to work. If we find no human remains as old as the youngest dinosaur bones, then dinosaurs didn't roam at the same time as humans. That's why it's called a FACT.

Your example about me not being able to prove you whether or not I'll be back on ATS tomorrow is ridiculous. There's a difference between analyzing the past and being able to foretell the future...I hope you see why


Also, stating that you can "make someone gay" is beyond crazy. You either ARE gay, or you AREN'T. You are born that way and no school, person, deity, or anyone else can "make you gay". So your fear that children suddenly try to convert people to being gay and spreading their genes is laughable.

As for Atheists trying to convert religious people...I don't wanna convert anyone. Like I said, you have the right to believe and live your life however you want to. That is, as long as you don't spoil it for others. You trying to refuse to let gays live as they want while still asking for others to allow you to let you live as you chose is beyond ignorant. What's even worse is that a lot of Christian fundamentalists try to force people to believe like them by mixing politics with their religion...therefore directly attacking the church/state separation.


[edit on 24-3-2010 by MrXYZ]


Care to quote me where I said anything about making someone gay?
Your credibility is showing. It is laughable when members miss quote members with such laughable conviction
Carbon dating is worthless when it comes to dinosaurs. Paleontology would be better off without your miss use of it.
Again your interject thoughts and words about me that are not true.
Show where I try to refuse gays to live as they want.
I am here strictly in defense of folks like you trying to force or impose your type of ignorance on them and myself.
I don't have a problem with gay folks they are my equal as they are mine.
I have a problem with folks like this guy. Do you think he is a person parents should be concerned about when it comes to there kids? I would say he is a creationist for sure.
What would you say?


From 100777.com
Case of Rabbi Lewis Brenner (Convicted of child molestation. The original charges included 14 counts of sodomy, sexual abuse and endangering the welfare of a child. He agreed to plead guilty to one count of sodomy in the third degree, a Class E felony, in exchange for a sentence of five years' probation.)



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 09:16 AM
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reply to post by Donny 4 million
 


If you believe in live and let live when it comes to gays and people of other religion...it's all good, sorry if I misunderstood.

But carbon dating isn't useless when it comes to dinosaurs and estimating their age. It's the best scientific method we have, and certainly a lot more valid than anything the bible says.

As for that pedophile dude you posted about, I agree, he's horrible. Doesn't matter which religion he belongs to...he's a sick man either way. It's been shown again and again that the people who pretend to be the most "correct" and "moral" are often the worst people around. What scares me is that whereas normal people get prosecuted for being pedophile, the church just seems to move their pedophile bishops and priests to to a new place whenever there's an incident. The whole pope story that's going on in the US and Germany is proof of that...he had knowledge about things, yet chose not to act.

Why? Because it would force him to admit of having made a mistake. The church HATES admitting that because it infers that they could be wrong when it comes to other things...and they obviously don't want that.

Again, if you're not judging others (gays, Muslims, etc.) I got no issue with you...

I just have an issue with the hardcore fundamentalists that try to enter politics and try to force others to live by their rules. Everyone has the right to live as they want, as long as they don't hurt anyone. If gays want to marry, or Muslims want to build a Minaret...they should be allowed to do so, it won't hurt anyone.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by MrXYZ]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by yodagod
 


conditioning, brainwashing...as long as you've got media, it will happen. It's not like overexposing a kid to sexual deviants in media is the slightest bit better



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by TELEX
 


Thanks for answering.
It seems a christian infiltration of ATS is strangely enough possible. I never would have thought so if I didn't see the OP mysteriously disapear for nothing except posting a topic that brings some attention to religious extremism. The fact that this has happened to previous members confirms the suspicions. If it's true I'd like to know who it is behind the bannings. I know ATS has a fair number of christians including mods but I don't think most of them would actually ban someone just for holding a different view than them. This is puzzling.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by Crescent Moon
 





If it's true I'd like to know who it is behind the bannings. I know ATS has a fair number of christians including mods but I don't think most of them would actually ban someone just for holding a different view than them.


We are talking about a type of people/mentality that would shoot a doctor, feed a baby to dogs,bar-b-q the feet of a man to ash and make him walk on the stumps, burn people alive, drown little girls to see if their witches and on and on.


We are talking about a mindset that truly believes that I am possessed by a demon or that a gay man is equally dysfunctional. How can people like this possibly be trusted in positions of authority when at the whim of the words of a pastor or a voice inside their head act to keep their truth the only truth ?

Although the children in the Ops videos are an exceptional case we must realize that these cases are on the increase. What is equally as important to bear in mind is that these children have an audience, some of which may not be comfortable with what the child is taught to do but are most certainly in agreement with every word the child has to say.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by Crescent Moon
 



I know ATS has a fair number of christians including mods but I don't think most of them would actually ban someone just for holding a different view than them. This is puzzling.


I don't think we have enough info to come to any conclusions yet.
I remember being baffled by the banning of a member who always seemed to abide by the T&C to the letter. I read her last thread and her latest posts and couldn't see what she did wrong. Then, I came across her own website where she explained to a poster that she had been banned for directing ATS members to her website via U2U, which is a breach of the T&C.
Banning can happen behind the scenes without being a conspiracy.
Just my 2 cents.



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