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Baby Bible Bashers, Christian child abuse?

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posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by Equinox99
Teaching them morals in the bible and making them preach is a whole different story. I bet you those kids don't understand 3/4 of what is in the bible. They don't have the experience to be able to understand what the real message is behind the teachings. I am 23 and have a hard time finding the message in the bible. What makes you think a 10 year old will understand it?


All very true. In fact, you will be very lucky to find one Christian, minister or not, that has read the Bible they so fervently believe is the actual words God wrote down on paper. I have read the Bible, in fact several of them that are slightly different. I have found many inconsistencies in there, and outright lies too.


The best way to practice the bible is through experience. Take for example, someone who has been working in a trade for years who has built up experience vs someone fresh out of college. The person from college can tell you the theory but will generally have a harder time applying it to real life. With experience you gain the ability to understand things to a greater extent.

I think this makes sense.


Good point. To all Christians: Read that Bible, with a good concordance handy, and by all means do the research on the stories and see that they were taken from earlier tales, such as the Epic, and The First Book of Adam and Eve. Also, do some research on ancient Egyptian Sun worship, and realize this; If TBTP practice Ancient Egyptian Rites and Rituals, you know there is something to it. One last thing, I don't care how many times you read it, you will still be confused, and will have no real understanding at all. Anyone who says they do is sadly mistaken and somewhat brainwashed by religion.




posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by LarryLove
 


Ok, I found this - apparently, the list is categorized into three different age groups - kindergarten through 12th grade - but this particular website/group chose the 7-12 grade list to review -

The list is divided into three main categories: books recommended for grades K-6; books recommended for grades 7-12; and books for teachers. (The books on the list span all genres: fiction, nonfiction, memoirs, even poetry.) Out of curiosity to see exactly what kind of books Kevin Jennings and his organization think American students should be reading in school, our team chose a handful at random from the over 100 titles on GLSEN’s grades 7-12 list, and began reading through.

Source

It would be interesting, and I'm sure someone has already checked, but to see what the Kindergarten through 6th grade books consists of.

If anyone wants to read excerpts from 11 of the books in the 7 - 12th grade category, they are HERE

But again, serious WARNING for GRAPHIC CONTENT -



[edit on 24-3-2010 by nomorecruelty]



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 03:03 PM
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You may well believe these children are being abused and indoctrinated. At the end of the day, they will reach a point of decision and maturity in life where they can see things for themselves and cast off what they have been taught.
Alternatively, they may well embrace it with the mature conscientious free minded decision of an adult. At very worst, they are being taught to be ignorant and stupid. But they're not 'hurting' anyone.
I have posted a link below that shows adults approvingly instructing a child in the ways of the koran. Out of all the videos posted so far, tell me which one is the real expose on child abuse and indoctrination?

www.answeringmuslims.com...



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by nomorecruelty

And too, what exactly are you doing right now in your life, or want to do in the future, that God would ruin that "fun" for you?

Stealing? Murder? Incest? Bestiality? Lying? Vanity? Pride? Worshiping another "god"? Prostitution? Adultery? Slander? Jealousy?

What is God keeping you "from"?



Thinking RATIONALLY! If there's something I don't understand, I'm willing to do research and try to figure it out...and if I can't, accept the fact that I just don't know. The Christian alternative is to claim they KNOW how stuff works (how man was created, start of the universe, etc.) by attributing it to God...without the slightest bit of solid proof. If a Muslim quotes Allah created the universe, and you say it was the Christian god....well...you might both be wrong or right because none of you has better "proof" than the other.

As for "fun" things:

1) I don't believe enjoying art (movies, music, etc.) will turn me into a bad person. I think stating Harry Potter or Lady Gaga is the influenced by Satan is bull#.

2) I don't believe lying will always turn me into a bad person. If my GF shows me some jewelry from her grandma that she really likes because it reminds her of the good times with her...and then asks me if I like it, I will say yes no matter what. I might think to myself that bracelet is the most ugly piece of jewelry I've ever seen, but I think lying is ok if it makes a loved one happy. By Christian standards, this is a sin...

3) I think gays/lesbians have the right to live their lives as they see fit. They don't hurt me by doing so, and they certainly don't hurt anyone by living the lives they were born to live. They didn't choose to be gay, and they have the RIGHT to do express their feelings like everyone else. If you criticize them, you have to accept the fact that others can criticize you too. I don't like Christian fundamentalists for various reason, but I accept that they have the RIGHT to live their lives as they see fit...as long as they don't hurt anyone. The gays aren't trying to stop you from being a fundamentalist, but yet you try to deprive them of their right to live as they see fit...that's WRONG.

4) As for the rest of your list, I'm not a jealous person, I'm not into animals (for sex that is), and since I'm agnostic, I'm not looking for another God. The religion I can most identify with is probably Buddhism because they don't pray to a God...it's more of a "way to live your life". It's why that religion gets along the best with science

I do realize that by saying and living like that, God will probably knock on my door if armageddon ever happens and go "told you so" before putting a bullet in my head. But given that there's not the slightest solid proof that that will ever happen, I refuse to change the way I wanna live based on guesswork and fairy tales. If people wanna be religious, they have the RIGHT to do so...and if it makes them happy, that's cool. But they HAVE to stop trying to mess up the lives of people who don't agree with their view of the world.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 


Following God and His laws has nothing to do with being "religious". I realize that there are numerous "bad" seeds out there - what group of people doesn't have them?

But God didn't create all of these "religions" that we see today - mankind did that, and continues to create them. Why? Because he doesn't like authority, he doesn't like being held accountable and he doesn't want anyone telling him that he can't do something if he wants to do it.

Pride goeth before destruction.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by The Parallelogram
 



You missed my point. The point of the thread is that somehow religious kids are being brainwashed...right?

So I said that we send our kids to school 8 hours a day, 7 days a week to learn ANTI-RELIGIOUS propaganda. So WHO is doing the brainwashing my friend?????



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by nomorecruelty
 


If no one can claim their religion is the right one by providing proof, how can you base your whole life on something that's written in a book (that was written by MAN)?

Most religions tell you to pray to God(s) based on what it says in their scriptures. Yet those scriptures were written by men! So basically, men are telling men to pray to someone who they invented. We have no proof for God(s) other than scriptures written by men. And we all know how trustworthy and honest mankind is


If you're religious because it makes you feel good, by all means, continue. But don't be religious just because you think it explains stuff you can't explain otherwise, or because you're worried about some fairy tales about the end of the world written by men. The bible has about as much validity as the story about Santa or the seven dwars. If the story of Santa teaches you to be good, that's a great thing...but he doesn't have to be REAL to achieve this.

Read the content of the bible and look at it as wisdom written 2000 years ago, and packaged as a fictional story. Yes it includes a lot of wisdom (don't kill, etc.), but it was written 2000 years ago, times change, and humanity has to adapt and evolve. That won't happen if you refuse to do so because of some 2000 year old book. If we wouldn't constantly change and adapt, we'd still have slavery and women would have no rights.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by trueperspective
reply to post by The Parallelogram
 



You missed my point. The point of the thread is that somehow religious kids are being brainwashed...right?

So I said that we send our kids to school 8 hours a day, 7 days a week to learn ANTI-RELIGIOUS propaganda. So WHO is doing the brainwashing my friend?????


It's not all propaganda for crying out loud!! If our teachers at school tell us that dinosaurs were extinct before men showed up, that's a scientific FACT. Yes it's against the views of Christian fundamentalists, but it's a fact. You can't brainwash someone with facts.

Also, you can't TEACH someone to be gay. You are BORN that way and don't really have a choice. So that whole "pushing the gay agenda" thing is bull#. They have as much of a right to be gay as you have to be a fundamentalist.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by nomorecruelty
[q

Considering that our kindergarten children are now being "indoctrinated" with teachings involving homosexuality, and abortion, etc......


what the hell type of school are you sending your kids too?!?!?!?

you know what I learned about in grade school? farm animals and coloring, plus adding numbers together, and I even got to play Oregon Trail on a mac 2 back in the day. If these kids have any exposure to these things its coming from a preacher screaming at his congregation about how bad these things are. the kids that "preach" about it arent learning these things from TV, becsase why would a fire and brimstone family allow their kids to watch TV in the first place since it is filled with the very sins they are aganst?

This only leads to curiosity of the young-lings, who want to understand what the preacher was talking about, then the kids go off and google murder, or worse things.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 04:33 PM
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Have you never stopped to think that pedophiles also claim there is nothing wrong with what they do?

A person can "say" all day long how homosexuality isn't a sin - but at the end of the day, it's still a sin.

If just "saying" something would make it true, I'd say I was a "millionaire".



What reason have you got for thinking homosexuality is a sin. Last time I checked, Homosexuality didn't cause years and years of hatred and war.

Religion on the other hand... thats different. People insult, attack and murder people of different religious backgrounds. The only reason two homosexuals would do so, is if they were fighting over another man


Anyway, forcing religion onto a young child, who hasn't even had time to develope a brief understanding of the rest of the world, has got to be some kind of abuse. At least let the child learn their 2 times tables before you ram religion down their throat and tell them that this is the ONLY way, and that everyone else who does not believe in your religion is wrong.

at least take him to a dinosaur museum and let him contemplate, if only for second, to himself... "what the hell are these things. They weren't in the bible... what the deuce is going on? They can't be real. People come here to pay money and see these man made legends, why would they do that? unless..."

and finally, at least let him be old enough for, himself, to understand how babys are made, so that he can sit and ponder "then what the hell happened with Mary, how is that even possible..."

p.s. I used him as an excample.... could apply to a girl too though obviously


[edit on 19 24uWednesday10 20 by vanhippi]



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by trueperspective
reply to post by The Parallelogram
 



You missed my point. The point of the thread is that somehow religious kids are being brainwashed...right?

So I said that we send our kids to school 8 hours a day, 7 days a week to learn ANTI-RELIGIOUS propaganda. So WHO is doing the brainwashing my friend?????


It's not all propaganda for crying out loud!! If our teachers at school tell us that dinosaurs were extinct before men showed up, that's a scientific FACT. Yes it's against the views of Christian fundamentalists, but it's a fact. You can't brainwash someone with facts.

Also, you can't TEACH someone to be gay. You are BORN that way and don't really have a choice. So that whole "pushing the gay agenda" thing is bull#. They have as much of a right to be gay as you have to be a fundamentalist.


Facts are but temporary best guesses---- this has been proven over and over.
You cannot prove to me you will be back here on ATS tomorrow can you? You know 100 percent.
The Jews had stones for gods. Then they changed it around to metal stuff.
Then they invented GOD but are afraid to spell it correctly. Then they flipped back and forth from god to metal.
Then the basis for Christianity came along and they destroyed the physical presence of that for a short while.
And now this is a proven fact that you cannot enter into the future with out FAITH.
Now you can tell me you will be here tomorrow. But without your faith that you will, you have nothing.

These are the actual messages I think the kids are learning and preaching.
Wouldn't you just love it if all your kids just spouted out one day and told you that they were all gay and they could give a crap about spreading your genes and they didn't care how they would live there lives cause they were just gonna die be put in a hole and that's the end of it.
Can I ask you Who has been pushing Christianity down your kids throat?--- and more specifically where?
Do you watch these videos that you would ban your kids from seeing.

www.about.com...
Real Atheists Don't Convert Others:

This isn't an uncommon perception which people have about atheism — more than a few people imagine that "real" atheism must be passive and indifferent towards theism and religion. There is nothing about either the broad definition of atheism used by atheists or the narrow definition used by many theists that would justify this. It seems to be based on the desire that atheists stop criticizing religion and pointing out flaws in both theistic and religious beliefs. There are in fact many reasons why atheists would be interested in religion for study, insight, and even refutation. Real Atheists Might Proselytize...


Oh and by the way do you subscribe to evolution?
If you do then you know that the kids ancestors walked with dinosaurs.
Yours too!



[edit on 24-3-2010 by Donny 4 million]



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by Donny 4 million
 


No facts aren't "temporary best guesses". We have carbon dating that's been proven to work. If we find no human remains as old as the youngest dinosaur bones, then dinosaurs didn't roam at the same time as humans. That's why it's called a FACT.

Your example about me not being able to prove you whether or not I'll be back on ATS tomorrow is ridiculous. There's a difference between analyzing the past and being able to foretell the future...I hope you see why


Also, stating that you can "make someone gay" is beyond crazy. You either ARE gay, or you AREN'T. You are born that way and no school, person, deity, or anyone else can "make you gay". So your fear that children suddenly try to convert people to being gay and spreading their genes is laughable.

As for Atheists trying to convert religious people...I don't wanna convert anyone. Like I said, you have the right to believe and live your life however you want to. That is, as long as you don't spoil it for others. You trying to refuse to let gays live as they want while still asking for others to allow you to let you live as you chose is beyond ignorant. What's even worse is that a lot of Christian fundamentalists try to force people to believe like them by mixing politics with their religion...therefore directly attacking the church/state separation.


[edit on 24-3-2010 by MrXYZ]



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by vanhippi

Have you never stopped to think that pedophiles also claim there is nothing wrong with what they do?

A person can "say" all day long how homosexuality isn't a sin - but at the end of the day, it's still a sin.

If just "saying" something would make it true, I'd say I was a "millionaire".



What reason have you got for thinking homosexuality is a sin. Last time I checked, Homosexuality didn't cause years and years of hatred and war.

Religion on the other hand... thats different. People insult, attack and murder people of different religious backgrounds. The only reason two homosexuals would do so, is if they were fighting over another man


Anyway, forcing religion onto a young child, who hasn't even had time to develope a brief understanding of the rest of the world, has got to be some kind of abuse. At least let the child learn their 2 times tables before you ram religion down their throat and tell them that this is the ONLY way, and that everyone else who does not believe in your religion is wrong.

at least take him to a dinosaur museum and let him contemplate, if only for second, to himself... "what the hell are these things. They weren't in the bible... what the deuce is going on? They can't be real. People come here to pay money and see these man made legends, why would they do that? unless..."

and finally, at least let him be old enough for, himself, to understand how babys are made, so that he can sit and ponder "then what the hell happened with Mary, how is that even possible..."

p.s. I used him as an excample.... could apply to a girl too though obviously


[edit on 19 24uWednesday10 20 by vanhippi]


Jeez van get real. There were no dinosaurs in Israel when the Hebrews wrote the creation. Not even any fossils that I know of.
Why should anyone not believe the Hebrew story about Mary.
Are you some kind of anti- semite?
Here is why Jews are afraid of homosexuality. This child was only nine years old.

From 100777.com a site for truth seekers.

Case of Rabbi (Alan J.) Shneur Horowitz (Convicted and sentenced to 10 - 20 years in prison for sodomizing a nine-year-old psychiatric patient. Allegedly, he has assaulted a string of children from California to Israel to New York in the past twenty years. Alan J. Horowitz is an Orthodox rabbi, magna cum laude, M.D., Ph.D. A graduate of Duke University, and was a writer for NAMBLA (North American Man/Boy Love Association).


Crap and with the wall paper that dude had I have no doubt you would not call him ignorant. Plenty of exposure to dinosaurs I bet.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by Conclusion
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
Luke 18:17

Said the bishop putting his arm around the little boys' shoulders.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by nomorecruelty

1. Homosexuality is an abomination to God, documented in, and by, the Bible.

2. Abortion is murder - anyway you want to twist it.

3. Apparently, Satan maybe has you helping him gather more and more souls away from God - and you may not even realize this.



Homosexuality being an abomination is debatable depending on how you want to cherry pick your morals and ethics from the bible. I don't want to argue here, but teaching kids to hate and not tolerate other people is wrong. I was always told by my grandmother "hate the sin, love the person", all this hate only creates more division among us and distracts us from being truly happy and doing more constructive things. They should be teaching these kids to help the homeless / needy, give to charity, maybe do some fund raising, maybe to help with some Habitat For Humanity projects, etc. Not to bash others because of their views or who they are.

That being said, they are their children and I believe you're allowed to raise your child in nearly anyway you want as long as it doesn't harm them or harm others.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by nomorecruelty
 





But God didn't create all of these "religions" that we see today - mankind did that, and continues to create them.

Ahum and who exactly created mankind ?

And before you go off down the silly street of free will, It is alleged that your god is the creator of everything.

It is ludicrous to have the creator of "everything" wash his hands of anything in creation this would preclude its' being omniscient and omnipresent.

It's no good blaming man for what man does if man was created and not thrown together like a haphazard salad .

Yet again, before you go off down the silly street of Satan this little fellar requires a creator in a created universe.

If your god is responsible for creation then it's responsible for "everything" in it, down to the last atom or thought.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by iamoverrated
 





I was always told by my grandmother "hate the sin, love the person",


A lot of christians try to push that one but in the case of homosexuality the sin to be hated in question is part of the person or even defines the person.

What is being asked (in this case of children) is that one can somehow hate the being of "Manly" but at the same time love the man.

Hate is such a freaking strong word to be teaching children to apply to people anyway.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by trueperspective
reply to post by The Parallelogram
 



You missed my point. The point of the thread is that somehow religious kids are being brainwashed...right?

So I said that we send our kids to school 8 hours a day, 7 days a week to learn ANTI-RELIGIOUS propaganda. So WHO is doing the brainwashing my friend?????


What is anti-religous propaganda? Science? Learning to read and write? Politics? Did you even watch the videos? The one child couldn't even give a reason to why he feels he wants to preach other than "I don't know, you'll have to ask my daddy." Seriously, if you can't see the harm this kind of indoctrination is doing, then I don't even know what to say. The parents are shaping the child's mind into what they think it should be without leaving any room to let the child create their own views and understanding of reality.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by nomorecruelty

Originally posted by yodagod
The indoctrination of these children has to be one of the more disgusting aspects of christianity I have ever come across. To my mind fixing a biblical negative view on homosexuals and those that choose to abort etc is abusing a child.

I have never been so disgusted and shocked when i came across these kids, they've actually been taught that they can heal people.

This is totally repugnant and creepy as kiddy porn.


1. Homosexuality is an abomination to God, documented in, and by, the Bible.

2. Abortion is murder - anyway you want to twist it.

3. Apparently, Satan maybe has you helping him gather more and more souls away from God - and you may not even realize this.



So you suggest throwing children at satan instead? Do you really think throwing kids under the Bible Bus is good? Please state why!
Also, for your information - JIM JONES WAS A CHILD PREACHER.
Yeah, he didn't do a darn thing for Satan did he? www.infoplease.com...
I get sick when you use children to justify indoctrination and cruelty. Too bad more don't get sick as well. Oh and if you can't win the war, tossing innocence into the fight and hoping the fact that they are children be their only saving grace is worse because YOU ARE THE ADULT!

ON THE FLIP SIDE:
If this is being done by these children (not parent glorification), then their pastors should have them in Bible retreats and Youth ministries where they belong. Have some sense people!

edit to add: Oh and if you are so against abortion - keep your privates to yourself and just don't be a homosexual. Be responsible for your damn selves so people that are trying to socialize you don't have ammo!

[edit on 24-3-2010 by DaWhiz]



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by trueperspective
 





BUT let's not DARE teach them about morals, God, family values, and social responsibility...THAT WOULD BE CHILD ABUSE.


I was brought up without the morals and values of your god, I live a very happy life and would not knowingly harm anyone. In fact my life works pretty well without your god who is represented by your bibles.

Now it was once alleged that my life could somehow become even better should I adopt your god morals and values and live by them.

Astonishingly enough when I checked out your gods morals and values I found them to be inferior to my own to the point of being repugnant.

My own children are not indoctrinated into some anti christian propaganda and to be honest are quite polite and sympathetic ,to the other children around them that are told to believe in invisible men and ghosts that live in the sky.

Kids can get along quite nicely without your bible god, when they have learned to learn and examine and assess they can go pick up a bible and make a decision on whether or not they would like to believe as you do.

What terrifies xtianity is the fact that, those that do are less likely to.

Your dysfunctional family is getting smaller by the day, given the propensity for christian types to become hateful and intolerant when their beliefs are rejected, perhaps this is for the best and amen to that.




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