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IRS to Serve as Health Reform Enforcer, but Lacks Authority to Enforce

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posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
reply to post by Maxmars
 


The IRS is a private corporation.

Excuse my ignorance, I've never heard that before.

Do you have a source/link for this?


Here's what the IRS says about that statement:


Contention: The Internal Revenue Service is not an agency of the United States.

Some argue that the IRS is not an agency of the United States but rather a private corporation, because it was not created by positive law (i.e., an act of Congress) and that, therefore, the IRS does not have the authority to enforce the Internal Revenue Code.


This is one of the most prevalent arguments [I've seen] in favor of the IRS being a private company.

This is how the IRS refutes it:


The Law: There is a host of constitutional and statutory authority establishing that the IRS is an agency of the United States. The U.S. Supreme Court stated in Donaldson v. United States, 400 U.S. 517, 534 (1971), “[w]e bear in mind that the Internal Revenue Service is organized to carry out the broad responsibilities of the Secretary of the Treasury under § 7801(a) of the 1954 Code for the administration and enforcement of the internal revenue laws.”

Pursuant to section 7801, the Secretary of the Treasury has full authority to administer and enforce the internal revenue laws and has the power to create an agency to enforce such laws. Based upon this legislative grant, the IRS was created. Thus, the IRS is a body established by “positive law” because it was created through a congressionally mandated power. Moreover, section 7803(a) explicitly provides that there shall be a Commissioner of Internal Revenue who shall administer and supervise the execution and application of the internal revenue laws.

In April 2006, a federal district court in Louisiana permanently barred Eddie Ferrand, Glenda F. Elliott, and William N. Kennedy, from preparing tax returns, because they had understated income on their customers’ federal income tax returns based on the frivolous premise, among others, that the IRS is an illegal organization. See www.usdoj.gov...; see also 2006 TNT 75-36.

Link: www.irs.gov...=159932,00.html#_Toc224375601




posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by ConspiracyNut23
 


You pay taxes? and have not idea where the IRS came from? I am very impressed but then again I admired your interest on finding out what the IRS is and came from, also you should research on other many agencies that are to gouge the public and they work as branches of the government when they are nothing but corporate owned

The IRS is not even in US soil.



Anti-Tax Law Evasion Schemes - Law and Arguments (Section V)

V. Fictional Legal Bases

A. Contention: The Internal Revenue Service is not an agency of the United States.

Some argue that the Internal Revenue Service is not an agency of the United States but rather a private corporation, because it was not created by positive law (i.e., an act of Congress) and that, therefore, the IRS does not have the authority to enforce the Internal Revenue Code.

The Law: There is a host of constitutional and statutory authority establishing that the Internal Revenue Service is an agency of the United States. The U.S. Supreme Court stated in Donaldson v. United States, 400 U.S. 517, 534 (1971), "[w]e bear in mind that the Internal Revenue Service is organized to carry out the broad responsibilities of the Secretary of the Treasury under § 7801(a) of the 1954 Code for the administration and enforcement of the internal revenue laws."

Pursuant to section 7801, the Secretary of Treasury has full authority to administer and enforce the internal revenue laws and has the power to create an agency to enforce such laws. Based upon this, the Internal Revenue Service was created. Thus, the Internal Revenue Service is a body established by "positive law" because it was created through a congressionally mandated power. Moreover, section 7803(a) explicitly provides that there shall be a Commissioner of Internal Revenue who shall administer and supervise the execution and application of the internal revenue laws.

Relevant Case Law:
Salman v. Dept. of Treasury, 899 F. Supp. 471 (D. Nev. 1995) - The court described Salman's contention that the Internal Revenue Service is not a government agency of the United States as wholly frivolous and dismissed his claim with prejudice.

Young v. I.R.S., 596 F. Supp. 141 (N.D. Ind. 1984) - The court granted summary judgment in favor of the government, rejecting Young's claim that the Internal Revenue Service is a private corporation, rather than a government agency.


They act as an agency of the Governemnt but the way it was created and from where they originate is not Governemnt at least they admit to how their origination is dubious, but by now they have been granted so much power that they had become part of Americas government make over.

www.irs.gov...=106508,00.html



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 08:25 AM
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reply to post by lpowell0627
 


Read this link and then be more afraid that you already are,

firedoglake.com...

This bill is almost identical to the plan written by AHIP, the insurance company trade association, in 2009.

The original Senate Finance Committee bill was authored by a former Wellpoint VP. Since Congress released the first of its health care bills on October 30, 2009, health care stocks have risen 28.35%



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 08:37 AM
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no one can force you to buy anything from a private company and a private company cant force you to buy anything from an other private company

its called extortion and is very illegal

if you already have free healthcare which i belive every american is entitled to then this "payment" or as id put it extortion of money that goes to a cartel is called racketeering

have a nice day in lalaland



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by zerbot565
if you already have free healthcare which i belive every american is entitled to then this "payment" or as id put it extortion of money that goes to a cartel is called racketeering

have a nice day in lalaland


"If you already have free healthcare...."

Can you please explain what you mean by this? The only people in this country that receive "free" anything are those that are considered "poverty level" and in turn get subsidized housing, food, healthcare, etc.

And even I would argue that it's not free. It is most certainly paid for by others.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by bg_socalif
Take the fine, the $750, though i've read it's $650.

It would be cheaper over the course of a year than a monthly health insurance premium in most of the cases.

Forcing people to buy health insurance is a bunch of BS anyway.




But you see, this is what the government WANTS most people to do. It's a way to get more FREE money to spend as they wish. Because most people who get returns and currently do not have health insurance will simply think along your lines. Just pay the fee and give up even more of your hard earned income to a government that is showing more and more how inept they have been in spending it.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by lpowell0627

Originally posted by zerbot565
if you already have free healthcare which i belive every american is entitled to then this "payment" or as id put it extortion of money that goes to a cartel is called racketeering

have a nice day in lalaland


"If you already have free healthcare...."

Can you please explain what you mean by this? The only people in this country that receive "free" anything are those that are considered "poverty level" and in turn get subsidized housing, food, healthcare, etc.

And even I would argue that it's not free. It is most certainly paid for by others.


Yeah, but not by the ones receiving it THUS free. Just because you and I pay for it doesn't make it less free for the people getting it. Now, I won't complain about it too much because being the oldest of 3 that was raised by a single mom who had serious health issues, well, I benefitted from that free healthcare more than I ever thought of then. But it was still free. To us.

However, the person you are quoting made the assumption that every American was entitled to 'free' healthcare. Maybe this is what you were speaking to? That is a complete farce.



[edit on 24-3-2010 by dariousg]



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by lpowell0627
 


hmm slap me silly but what has poverty and free health care to do with each other ?

nothing

and as you bring up the question of tax money and where it goes , i as i dont live in the u.s cant speak for that but looking at statistics and what have you pretty little of that sum goes towards healthcare and education.

so one question id like to ask in return what do you expect your tax money to give you in return for your hard earn labor ?

if your tax money dont benefit you in anyway what is the point of paying taxes ?

oh and on a side note society what is that ?



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by dariousg
However, the person you are quoting made the assumption that every American was entitled to 'free' healthcare. Maybe this is what you were speaking to? That is a complete farce.
[edit on 24-3-2010 by dariousg]


That is exactly to what I was referring.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 10:57 AM
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so what you two are saying is that there is no such thing as "free" healthcare (paid by taxes) in the states ?

and that in order to recive the simplest form of aid you have to own a medi / healthcare insurance other wise a public/state owned hospital can turn you away ?






[edit on 24-3-2010 by zerbot565]



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by zerbot565
no one can force you to buy anything from a private company and a private company cant force you to buy anything from an other private company



Yes, supposedly no one can force you, but that is not what this is...

The Obama administration's whole goal is to make Americans more dependent of the government, to consolidate all power to the executive branch, and even to give up U.S. sovereignty to the UN, and other international Socialist groups. If you don't belive the above just do a search about the nominees that Obama put in power, and you will see the truth of this administration.

I posted a couple of threads showing statements, and the goals that the people Obama has put in power have.



Originally posted by zerbot565
its called extortion and is very illegal


According to them, once the government does it, and if they pass it as law then it is not illegal.....



Originally posted by zerbot565
if you already have free healthcare which i belive every american is entitled to then this "payment" or as id put it extortion of money that goes to a cartel is called racketeering

have a nice day in lalaland


There is nothing free in this world... Somehow, and from somewhere money must come to pay for services.

I have answered in the past to people who claim that we all must have "free healthcare" with "then we are all entitled to a free house, a free car, free meals, free dental care, free membership in a fitness club of our choice, free plastic surgery, and free everything..... So now my question is, how are we going to pay for "all this free stuff"?.....

What I believe we are entitled to is "affordable healthcare", not
free healthcare". Money does not grow in trees to have anything free.



posted on Mar, 25 2010 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043

Yes I did notice, the veil of ignorance is too thick to deal with, I voted for obama because I believe in hopes and change, I believe on his idea for health care reform I believe that he was going to change the face of the private insurance industry and their racketeering once and for all.


As long as you realize the mistake of voting for the administration that is in power, it is ok. What really irks me are the people who keep backing the Obama administration, and those who see Obama as some sort of "saviour"...

The "saviour" mentality is the same one that put Chavez, and others, in power, and even after all the attrocities committed by the Chavez regime there are people who call him "sort of God"... Likewise we had a "Liberal/Democrat/Progressive" reporter (I can't remember right now his job but he was on tv) who claimed "Obama is above all, he is above the country, and he is sort of God"...and the reporter that was interviewing this person agreed with this asinine statement....



Originally posted by marg6043
But what he did was to give power over our freedoms and choices to them.


Marg, that is what many of us have been trying to say. Unfortunately the Republican party has also been corrupted from within, and bought for the most part.

Most, if not all "neocons" were Democrats for a long time, and then they infiltrated the Republican party and suddenly became "Republicans", but in truth they are only RINOs.(Republican In Name Only)

We need to fire the lot of them, from both parties, and put in place politicians who will uphold the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, instead of trying to "change" it, or even ban/destroy it....



Originally posted by marg6043
I have lost my faith on Americas politicians they are nothing but whores to corporate power.


I have also lost my faith not only on politicians, but on many Americans, and more so our youth, and I have also lost my faith on most of the people of the free world.

Our young people, and even many older people, are too arrogant these days and they don't want to see, and listen to those who have experienced what we are going through yet again. They don't realize that history is repeating itself.

I have posted in the past proof of how Socialists/Communists have infiltrated countries through "Democratic and other Social parties" and with their promises of "change" they took over such nations.

This is not the first time that the promise of "change" has been used to lure the people into what is becoming more and more a dictatorship.



Originally posted by marg6043
Now the talks of all the sweet deals that were behind closed doors are to be including in the final bill this week, yes he signed a bill that was not finished yet, the details of the sweet deals are still sketchy and they are not for our benefit either.


This is why we must continue to fight against this. People should have realized that the Obama healthcare bill will not help us when Obama himself stated on tv that either this healthcare bill is passed or none will be passed. People should have realized the truth about the Obama administration "healthcare" when Obama nominated a depopulation advocate as his "science Czar", and when he responded to an old lady by telling her she might be better to keep on taking her pills, which helps Big Pharma, instead of getting the treatments, or operation her doctor says could help her. But of course, people were thinking, and probably most of them still think, that Obama can do no wrong....



[edit on 25-3-2010 by ElectricUniverse]



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