IRS to Serve as Health Reform Enforcer, but Lacks Authority to Enforce

IRS to Serve as Health Reform Enforcer, but Lacks Authority to Enforce

www.foxnews.com

Under the Senate bill approved Sunday by the House, the Internal Revenue Service would be called on to ensure Americans are obtaining health care insurance and businesses are offering it, or else they could face fines. Many would receive subsidies to help pay for insurance.

(visit the link for the full news article)

So, the mighty IRS has become a little mightier. I will say that this was brilliant thinking on the part of the administration. The majority of people "hate" the IRS already, so giving them the power to oversee compliance with purchasing healthcare won't affect their relationship with the American people.

There are a few things that I personally found to be of interest within this article. The first being this paragraph:

The emphasis is on incentives for healthy people to buy insurance, thereby spreading the risk of older, less healthy people over a broader pool of customers. For those earning between $22,050 and $88,200, there are tax credits for health insurance premiums. In addition, individuals initially face fines of up to $750 for not buying in; businesses would face fines of up to $3,000.

Remember all of us that were saying we end up covering everyone else's insurance that can't afford to pay? Remember all the criticism we received for fear-mongering and whining about paying more?

What exactly does: "spreading the risk of older, less healthy people over a larger pool of customers" mean to you?

Also, notice that those people making less than $88,000 receive tax credits. That's a pretty heavy burden to repay for everyone making more than that amount. And for those of you that think making $85K a year means you are living like a king, think again. Google some stats on the cost of living in New Jersey, New York, California, Hawaii, etc. Cost of living and asset considerations never seem to be a factor when determining one's ability to pay the government, but yet is a factor when trying to purchase anything requiring a loan. Interesting double-standard I find.

Also, if you are one that normally receives a refund from the IRS and think that you will be opting out of healthcare premiums, think again:

That means there’s virtually nothing the IRS can do to enforce the fines in the legislation, forcing the tax man to rely on the consciences of taxpayers or to skim off any federal benefits, tax credits or refunds they have coming to them.

"In other words, if you're due a refund or some other federal benefit, and you didn't obtain qualified insurance, your refund or benefit will be tapped for your fee,” said Bill Ahearn, director of policy and communications for the Tax Foundation.

As a forewarning: Just because the IRS does not currently have the power to collect the fines and fees for non-compliance, don't think they won't be granted that ability in the near future. I can't imagine the government would let enforcement guidelines stand in the way of collecting more money from the American taxpayer. Rather, they can expand the powers of the IRS with the simple stroke of a pen.

And here's a term perhaps we've never heard before: voluntary tax. Sounds like an oxymoron to me, but here's the quote:

“People who aren't due any refunds or federal benefits will apparently face no collection action, as the IRS's hands will be effectively tied and it will be a truly voluntary tax."

A couple of things before breaking out the champagne: The less people that actually pay the tax, the more amount of money those that do will have to cough up in order to cover the shortfalls. Moreover, after a few years of realizing the number of people NOT buying into the program, the less the CBO numbers will actually remain accurate. The CBO estimates were based on "ideal" numbers and x% participating. As soon as those variables change, so does the cost of the bill.

So ATS, does the above make you more or less anxious about healthcare reform? Also, how many of you receive refunds and had planned on not complying?

I would imagine the young, healthy 20-somethings are going to be most impacted. They tend to receive tax refunds AND tend to not purchase healthcare. Pretty cool demographic to target for enforcement, no? The youngest and healthiest.

Thoughts?

www.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Take the fine, the $750, though i've read it's $650.

It would be cheaper over the course of a year than a monthly health insurance premium in most of the cases.

Forcing people to buy health insurance is a bunch of BS anyway.

"I would imagine the young, healthy 20-somethings are going to be most impacted. They tend to receive tax refunds AND tend to not purchase healthcare. Pretty cool demographic to target for enforcement, no? The youngest and healthiest".

This is simply a form of regressive taxation. Just another deduction along with SS taxes, workers comp ect. For those with more, a tax on insurance policies up to 40% is a progressive tax. And it is certainly a pentalty on business to pay 3000 a head.

They will be dubble dipping as well, charging an employer 3000 and the uninsured employee 2.5% after 3 years. The government will be bringing in as much as a 5000$ per year per head. Do that math on just say 25mill in that Twilight Zone.

12bill a year!!!!! Thats what I am getting. 50 mill at 5000$=
250,000,000,000?

reply to post by bg_socalif



But is it ok for them to force you pay/subsidize the health care of others?

reply to post by lpowell0627


The littler something that nobody knows, when the private health care did their overview fo the next 10 years they found out that their record profits will be diminishing as Americans are getting older, specially the baby boomers.

The younger generation and healthy generation stay away from buying insurance because the economy and low prospect of long time employment.

The insurance companies were able to pay their way into the Obama campaign to get their change be bailed out with mandatory health care to target the healthy Americans and younger generation so they can help with the burden of the aging baby boomers that will be depleting their profits.

Just like SS the younger and healthier now will pay for those that are older and sicker.

And still people think that this all about helping the people, the only thing been helped here is the profits of private health care insurance in this nation.

So whatever happened to "end the Fed" and the Irs being illegal? Is Irs actually an arm of global government or is it actually a branch of us government? Would appreciate if someone could define.

reply to post by Alethea


Hon, I knew long ago that any of the government agencies been in place to enforce laws for the Federal government are here to stay.

Is nothing but a dream of the hopeful to think this entities within the government are under any laws.

Only us the citizens and tax payer are under "their laws"

Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by bg_socalif

 

But is it ok for them to force you pay/subsidize the health care of others?

Heck i already do, i live in California the social program black hole of the US. Many Illegal immigrants and welfare slackers are helped by my tax dollars. Medicaid, Medicare, Medi-Cal and what have you, my tax dollars are paying/subsidizing already.

Margo6043 is right. This is just a big bailout for the insurance companies. It's just being called "Healthcare Reform" instead of a bailout.

Here's a question to fry your brains over.

The IRS is a private corporation. It's charter is to support the revenue collection of American citizens' funds for the FED.

I wonder if their charter will change to accomodate the expanded operational scope?... not that any corporations have real charters to live up to anymore... let alone the Fed strongarms.

Insofar as the limits of IRS authority... that can easily be remedied by a flick of a pen... our legislators abdicated all responsibility in that area to the private sector.... their current sponsors, and their future employers.

Originally posted by bg_socalif

Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by bg_socalif

 

But is it ok for them to force you pay/subsidize the health care of others?

Heck i already do, i live in California the social program black hole of the US. Many Illegal immigrants and welfare slackers are helped by my tax dollars.

Medicaid, Medicare, Medi-Cal and what have you, my tax dollars are paying/subsidizing already.

Margo6043 is right. This is just a big bailout for the insurance companies. It's just being called "Healthcare Reform" instead of a bailout.

Its mazzing how the California modle was largley over looked in this latest debate.

Here's a question that I haven't seen answered yet. I may have simply missed it.

The reform bill states that people making between $22 & 88K per year will receive TAX CREDITS to purchase health insurance.

Question: What happens to those of us that fall into that category financially, but already have health insurance? Either privately OR through our employers?

I would imagine that we wouldn't receive tax credits as the purpose of this legislation is to add members....but why should we be penalized for doing what they wanted us to do all along?

Anybody have an answer to this?

Originally posted by Alethea
So whatever happened to "end the Fed" and the Irs being illegal? Is Irs actually an arm of global government or is it actually a branch of us government? Would appreciate if someone could define.

Here's what the IRS says about themselves:

The IRS is a bureau of the Department of the Treasury and one of the world's most efficient tax administrators. In 2004, the IRS collected more than $2 trillion in revenue and processed more than 224 million tax returns.

This mission statement describes our role and the public’s expectation about how we should perform that role.

-- In the United States, the Congress passes tax laws and requires taxpayers to comply.
-- The taxpayer’s role is to understand and meet his or her tax obligations.
-- The IRS role is to help the large majority of compliant taxpayers with the tax law, while ensuring that the minority who are unwilling to comply pay their fair share.

The IRS is organized to carry out the responsibilities of the secretary of the Treasury under section 7801 of the Internal Revenue Code. The secretary has full authority to administer and enforce the internal revenue laws and has the power to create an agency to enforce these laws. The IRS was created based on this legislative grant.
Section 7803 of the Internal Revenue Code provides for the appointment of a commissioner of Internal Revenue to administer and supervise the execution and application of the internal revenue laws.

Link: www.irs.gov...=98141,00.html

reply to post by lpowell0627


Not only that...remember all those Obama fans who kept saying that people would not pay any fines for not having the insurance THE GOVERNMENT wants you to have?.....

We were warning them, but in their arrogance and ignorance these people decided to not listen to anyone....

These people fell twice for the lies... After seeing that Obama, and his administration were not listening to the people, and they broke most of the promisses they made, these people STILL believed "Obama healthcare reform will help everyone".....

All of these same people were claiming that this was not a government take over of healthcare....even though we gave them facts about the bill, and even videos of what Obama, and his administration wanted to do.

Now the IRS has more power, and people MUST buy the healthcare that THE GOVERNMENT wants you to have....

Welcome to the new Socialist United States of America....

Now we all have to pay for the arrogance, and ignorance of those who thought "we need Obama's healthcare reform"....

I don't own a business, but I am an individual, and now I, and everyone else will have to buy the insurance THE GOVERNMENT WANTS YOU TO HAVE....

More choices have been taken away from us.... Will we find ourselves with having no choices whatsoever because of the ignorance, and arrogance of those who didn't want to listen?....

[edit on 23-3-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by bg_socalif
Take the fine, the $750, though i've read it's $650.

It would be cheaper over the course of a year than a monthly health insurance premium in most of the cases.

Forcing people to buy health insurance is a bunch of BS anyway.

The fine is for every month that you do not have insurance...

If either an individual or a business has failed to comply with this mandate for any month out of the year, they are required to pay a separate tax to the IRS. For individuals this is a maximum of $750 per person (up to $2,250 per household) and $750 per uncovered employee for businesses.

Any month out of the year that you fail to have the healthcare insurance THE GOVERNMENT wants you to have, you will have to pay $750 per individual, or up to $2,250 per household...

We were warning people about this, and more, yet they didn't want to listen.

They decided not to lsiten to anyone, or even believe any evidence that we showed about this "healthcare bill"....

People should have known better when Obama went on tv and said it was either to accept his healthcare reform, or there would be none....

[edited to correct statement]

[edit on 23-3-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

BTW, notice how the Obama fans are avoiding threads like this one.

These people will never learn, and they don't want to.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Yes I did notice, the veil of ignorance is too thick to deal with, I voted for obama because I believe in hopes and change, I believe on his idea for health care reform I believe that he was going to change the face of the private insurance industry and their racketeering once and for all.

But what he did was to give power over our freedoms and choices to them.

I have lost my faith on Americas politicians they are nothing but whores to corporate power.

Now the talks of all the sweet deals that were behind closed doors are to be including in the final bill this week, yes he signed a bill that was not finished yet, the details of the sweet deals are still sketchy and they are not for our benefit either.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


It has not gone unnoticed. I also started a thread informing people of their current rights that were granted in 1986 after reading numerous posts from people that stated we needed healthcare reform "so they could go to the hospital and receive treatment in case of emergency".

That thread got ZERO attention. People don't even know the rights they already have. Further, had they researched it a bit, they would realize that one of the main reasons insurance premiums are so high already is because we are forced to pay for people that receive treatment in a hospital and don't pay the bill themselves.

reply to post by Maxmars

The IRS is a private corporation.

Excuse my ignorance, I've never heard that before.

Do you have a source/link for this?

reply to post by marg6043


That's the scariest part and I can not fathom why people are not outraged. This bill is STILL changing. Mind you, it's already law. However, Obama is in the process of issuing an executive order right now related to healthcare, the bill was only approved with the promise of "future changes" and yet.....it is already law?!

Further, I still can not for the life of me figure out why people are not absolutely beside themselves with anger that we have to pay now, but nobody receives benefits until 2014??

How does that escape people? We have to pay additional costs for 4 years before anybody receives any benefits and people think this is a sound, fiscally responsible bill?

If this bill is going to reduce the deficit, and save us ALL money, why does it take us four years to make payments prior to receiving anything tangible? Can you imagine if you went to buy a house and they said: Start paying now but you can't move in for another 4 years....

I'm sorry. It's outlandish what has become acceptable as meaningful reform in this country.