MSNBC Newsvine Poll on Healthcare reform bill - 66.7% are angry

reply to post by sos37


Just so you know it was a spam attack by 4chan on /b/, they used various false IP's with different computers to vote for that option.

reply to post by sos37




The accuracy of the polls is influenced by the fact that the ANGRY are far more motivated to speak up about it than the indifferent.

-rrr

I hear all sorts of percentages and figures. So far if you listen to Fox...No one wants healthcare. If you listen to CNN, about 48% are happy. If you listen to NPR, about 51% are happy. So...I don't trust any of the figures.

Also...its passed. Its over. No amount of complaining is going to bring it back. I watch all of this anger over healthcare, but saw none of it when we had legislation making torture legal. How about when we bailed out Wall Street twice? There's a million other things you could be complaining about, but this is what angers you?

Its funny to me that you guys pick healthcare to finally throw up arms against your country. This truly is the movie idiocracy.

Here's the mentality. Lie to us about wars, rape us over and over and give our money to the rich...But for God's sake, don't provide us healthcare. That's just too much to handle.

No wonder our country is dead, American priorities are completely reversed.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

reply to post by redhorse


Slippery slope fallacy.

-rrr

reply to post by sos37

The problem is that Republican leadership believed their own lies. They forgot that they knew there weren't actually Death Panels in the bill, that it was still illegal to get federally-funded abortions, that everyone can really keep their private insurance, that the new proposals actually brought deficit down - by eventually trillions of dollars. And forgot that the public was, in fact, for health care reform. And for the public option.

When polls showed that Americans were unhappy with the health care reform bill, GOP leadership forgot that some were unhappy because It Didn't Go Far Enough. And others were unhappy because they simply didn't understand the bill. When similar polls explained the bill, the results showed that the public was... in favor of it! Just like at the beginning.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

The Kaiser polls were the only ones that asked the right questions and ironically they were the only one that wasn't funded by big industry or media compnaies and designed to garner headlines...

As far as an this internet opinion poll....please...seriouslly?

reply to post by Styki


My sentiments exactly. I don't think that the poll results are as relevant as whatever will actually come out of it. All those arguing that this is a slippery slope towards communism are neglecting the countless countries around the world that have had universal healthcare for decades and have not slipped into communism.

The only people negatively affected by this, if at all, will be the insurance company executives whose bonuses are going to have to be cut back to a reasonable million or two a year in order to maintain the billions of yearly profits that they regularly post. Them along with the poor business owner that has 50 or more employees.... which as you know is not that poor.

The average joe will probably see a lot of political bickering and absolutely no changes at all for years. the system is not going to suddenly become efficient. And I am not sure if it will at all. it's wait and see with that.

The unfortunate and unhealthy will see an immediate win.

But one thing is for sure: The single exception to capitalism is health care insurance, and all types of insurance for that matter: When your profits are your ultimate goal, that goal comes into conflict with providing coverage because coverage is a cost. All other services and goods benefit from competition, except all types of insurance, which need to be regulated to some extent. This even extends to those areas of the goods and services sector where goods can expose to liability, which is why cars have to meet government safety regulations. one could argue that government regulations on cars are going to lead to communism and that some day we will all be driving Yugos, but one would be tremendously stupid to argue that. But yes, it is true, we all have been forced to drive cars with seatbelts, airbags, crumple zones, and bumpers... "oh the humanity, why oh why am I forced to finance the research and development of life saving features in cars when I don't plan on crashing my car... just to save those idiots that crash theirs? woe is me!!! the auto industry is communist! they rammed those safety features down our throats!"

Human life is not negotiable, almost all of the world realizes that, but in this country we have been willing to trade human life for money as long as it is MY money and somebody else's life. How quickly the tables turn when you or a loved one gets cancer or has a serious accident.



-rrr

Originally posted by rickyrrr
reply to post by Styki

 

My sentiments exactly. I don't think that the poll results are as relevant as whatever will actually come out of it. All those arguing that this is a slippery slope towards communism are neglecting the countless countries around the world that have had universal healthcare for decades and have not slipped into communism.

The only people negatively affected by this, if at all, will be the insurance company executives whose bonuses are going to have to be cut back to a reasonable million or two a year in order to maintain the billions of yearly profits that they regularly post. Them along with the poor business owner that has 50 or more employees.... which as you know is not that poor.

You don't know how much money a business owner makes based on the number of employees they have. He could be forgoing a salary so he can retain enough necessary employees so his business can still function. Do you operate a business as an owner? As a business owner, I can tell you that I am tired of people assuming that I am well-off. Most of my employees make more than I do.

The average joe will probably see a lot of political bickering and absolutely no changes at all for years. the system is not going to suddenly become efficient. And I am not sure if it will at all. it's wait and see with that.

The unfortunate and unhealthy will see an immediate win.

But one thing is for sure: The single exception to capitalism is health care insurance, and all types of insurance for that matter: When your profits are your ultimate goal, that goal comes into conflict with providing coverage because coverage is a cost. All other services and goods benefit from competition, except all types of insurance, which need to be regulated to some extent. This even extends to those areas of the goods and services sector where goods can expose to liability, which is why cars have to meet government safety regulations. one could argue that government regulations on cars are going to lead to communism and that some day we will all be driving Yugos, but one would be tremendously stupid to argue that. But yes, it is true, we all have been forced to drive cars with seatbelts, airbags, crumple zones, and bumpers... "oh the humanity, why oh why am I forced to finance the research and development of life saving features in cars when I don't plan on crashing my car... just to save those idiots that crash theirs? woe is me!!! the auto industry is communist! they rammed those safety features down our throats!"

I agree with most of this. You want insurance providers to do well, yet you don't want to see the top-tier executives getting millions of dollars that could be going to policyholders that have been denied coverage for whatever reason. Even though I am against big government, I am inclined to believe that strict regulations need to be in place (and enforced) to keep certain segments of the market from being vicitmized by greed. Insurance companies and wall street are right at the top of that list.

Human life is not negotiable, almost all of the world realizes that, but in this country we have been willing to trade human life for money as long as it is MY money and somebody else's life. How quickly the tables turn when you or a loved one gets cancer or has a serious accident.

-rrr

You'd think that overall, people's sense of right and wrong would compel them to do the right thing, but I think that morality has been engineered out of Americans to a certain extent. On an individual level, it's all about ME ME ME anymore. You see it in the way people drive, they way they act toward strangers. On a collective level? Forget it, it's about the bottom line anymore. Sad.

I guess I mostly agree here.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by AwakeinNM]

Originally posted by romanmel

Originally posted by thomas_
I really don't get why all this mess. If this subject is so controversial why don't people simple demand a referendum for it instead of throwing bricks on windows and using violence?

Make that pass trough public voting. The government should have done this already instead of having to deal with all this mass.

Demand and use all the political means first, violence is a last resort. And one that shouldn't be used at all.

1. Demand a referendum

if that doesn't work

2. Start asking for impeachment of the President

Now that's right..."work through the system". And, where has that got you for the last 50 years?

I got an idea...why not send a letter to your congressman. That will do wonders, right? Wrong!

People with this mindset will make great hall monitors for Big Brother. Hope your shackels aren't too tight.

...........................

.........................

Don't come with that cheap talk over me. You guys are just becoming politically aware and that only because it started to affect your pockets. Otherwise you would still be comfortably sited in your couch making a blind eye for everything that your government does. Exactly what has happened during the previous administration.

The government isn't using violence against it's citizens it's using power. A power that majority of the Americans GAVE to the government throughout all these years that you had it's eyes close to politics or simply by buying false promises from shady politicians.

Who has put Bush in charge of the country to begin with?

Let me take a wild guess and say it was a majority of the 40% of the population that even bothered to vote. 40% or less voted and even then they couldn't manage to count the votes correctly, amazing. That really show how Americans love to exercise their constitutional rights.

They couldn't count because they were probably not expecting to have that incredible amount of people even voting

And from those 40% Bush got the majority so let's say 30% of those voted for him. On the big picture it's what? Less than 25% percent of population has decided the fate of the country.

And who has re-elected Bush?

Let me take a second wild guess say that 60% of the population decided to vote after all the crap the country had been trough.

So what's happening now isn't Obama's fault but Bushes and his expensive war for oil... oops... sorry... against terror.

And now you complain and say that I'm the one in shackles?

LOL!

The real power is with the population but violence isn't the answer for the current stage things are. But you got to be smart and think on how to use it otherwise the only thing you will make is to make it worse.

But feel free to do what you want, it's a free country after all isn't?



cheers!

Originally posted by maybereal11

www.huffingtonpost.com...

The Kaiser polls were the only ones that asked the right questions and ironically they were the only one that wasn't funded by big industry or media compnaies and designed to garner headlines...

As far as an this internet opinion poll....please...seriouslly?

Yeah, seriously.

Read the OP ED piece from MSNBC that I posted one page back if you don't want to believe an internet poll. Even a left-leaning publication acknowledges the fact that the MAJORITY of America is pissed about this bill passing.

What, your new motto is "Deny Reality?"

reply to post by thomas_

The government isn't using violence against it's citizens it's using power. A power that majority of the Americans GAVE to the government throughout all these years that you had it's eyes close to politics or simply by buying false promises from shady politicians.

I'm afraid to say, this is sadly true. The goverment is using the power that they slowly and surely usurped from the people over a period of years.

America is now paying for years of apathy. They are now seeing the effects of ignoring their right to use the ballot box. They haven't voted for years, and they made it easy for politicians to weasel their way into positions of power.

Don't vote, don't attend town hall meetings, don't write or call your congressmen. It's easy to use the old excuses of 'they're all the same' or 'the country is run by lobbyists so don't bother voting' or blah blah blah. See where you end up.

America, you have only yourself to blame.

Originally posted by sos37
if you don't want to believe an internet poll. ...

No I don't want to believe an idiotic internet poll...

Let's take a look at Gallup....They have actually run a poll or two in thier time


By Slim Margin, Americans Support Healthcare Bill's Passage

FUNNY WHAT THE POLLS SHOW WHEN BIG PHARMA STOPS PAYING FOR THEM...

49% Bill's passage "good"
40% Bills passage "bad"
11% No Opinion
Americans' emotional responses to the bill's passage are more positive than negative -- with 50% enthusiastic or pleased versus 42% angry or disappointed -- and are similar to their general reactions.

www.gallup.com...

Now is the time where you tell me that Gallup is unreliable, but an internet click poll is gospel.

AND just to add to the Right's discomfort...Obama's approval ratings took a bump up too



[edit on 23-3-2010 by maybereal11]

Originally posted by xstealth

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Did you just post an internet poll as a source?


Shall I write a quick script to put 1 million votes in the "excited" category???

What a pathetic response.

What is next? nearly 70% of Americans are racist, because a 'black man' is in office.


These poll results are real, and I still think under reported. I personally don't know 1 person happy about this.

I unfortunately do know people who are happy but have very little knowledge of the issue and CHOOSE to not know and argue anyway. I think i got dumber trying to debate them.... I gave up after they became emotionally irrational about it and had their buddies gang up on me....

Pro Ocare people's response: "These reps were elected by the people, so they voted for the people, if you dont like it go somewhere else. This is not socialism. This is America like it or leave it."


SEE WHAT I'VE GOT TO DEAL WITH???
\

[edit on 23-3-2010 by AzoriaCorp]

It sickens me to think that our elected officials can sneak around like thieves in the night passing 2000+ pages of legislation with an estimated cost of 900+ billion dollars. The public outcry against this bill was astonishing leading up to the votes, and while I do not agree with the tactics which were employed by many individuals, I think the gross ammount of resistance would have lead our "elected officials" to spend more than a few days discussing the merits of this moving forward.

reply to post by kozmo


I've seen facebook threads get a million users to vote in polls in just a few hours. Same thing with twitter. No need for scripting there when you have a virtual bot net with IP addresses for every user ordered to vote. Its easy, find a right-wing facebook group with 1-2 million members and post your call to vote. Mailing lists accomplish the same thing and often have even more subscribers. But they invalidate all internet polls because they are so easily manipulated. There is absolutely no validity to an internet poll when it comes to a controversial topic that many people are passionate about and likely to use their networks to draw in votes.

And that's not the only way. Source routing sometimes works. Large ISP's who use proxies (like AOL) are customarily excluded from the IP rules since all of their hits pass through a fixed number of Proxy servers. The alternative is to exclude all AOL users. But I've seen major news organization exclude AOL proxies from their IP filters and use only cookies for exclusion, which are easily ignored when scripting. The net result is that you can often write a script to load the ballot box on a poll if you operate from AOL or other well-known ISP's that make use of proxies. I worked for a MAJOR corporation (think they own NBC) that excluded AOL IP filters as standard practice.

So yes- these polls are completely and utterly useless. They reflect the groups opinion that gets the most people to visit. This is not how scientifically accurate polling works and it certainly doesn't represent the population in any manner whatsoever.