Only In America Would People Complain About Paying For Healthcare

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posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:08 PM
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A bit of a warning here before I get into this.

This is not an anti-american thread. I love my neighboors, they are a good people. I just don't understand some things about your mentality..

Here's the the thing. You all SO worried about paying for anything these days in the states. You would rather fund wars then have a healthy population.

Do you see a problem with this?

Let me be clear.

There is MORE of a stint, or an outcry I should say, over healthcare, than TWO ILLEGAL wars started and yet finished over the past decade.

Really?

Perhaps I am biased, I have had healthcare since the day I was born, never had to argue about it. Never really saw the cost of it as it's factored into our tax system so therefore I never had to give a doctor a cent in my wallet.

If I did however, I would certainly rather remove my "hollywood" budget for peace of mind when it comes to my health.

Now this isn't an argument for the BILL that was just passed. That bill is, well poor and that's being nice about it. It's sloppy and the whole process should have been done with more time and transparency.

This is about the fact that the American People would rather spend 1000$ dollars a year on junkfood and movies than health care. This is significant philosophical and psychological problem if you ask me.

So my question is simple. If a good bill were introduced, one that actually made sense and helped most Americans get good coverage while preventing industry abuses, would you still whine about being FORCED to pay for it?

If so, WHY? It completely makes no sense to me what so ever. You should all thrilled that they are at least attempting to rectify the problem and are having a debate about it. The issue has been largely ignored for the better part of 100 years.

Obviously we have the PTB and some will argue no plan is going to work because it helps them and not you, however progress is progress, things will not always be the same.

Why not get what you can out of the corrupt system now, versus having to dismantly everything later on?

Thoughts ATS?

I want to get a better understanding of the mind set of Americans when it comes to this sort of, IMO obvious easy decision of wanting to have healthcare, versus a large SUV, two more vehicles and as I said earlier, a 1000$ montly budget for junk that doesn't give you anything to begin with.


Edit To Add: After reading some of the responses, I have somewhat mispoken in this thread.

I don't mean to lump all Americans together. I'm talking specifically about the Middle Class and "suburban" Americans.

Also in regards to the wars, somebody rightly pointed out that this issue is fresh issue and there was a lot of outcry over the wars, I was just using the most recent thing I could think of that people should be up in arms over...

~Keeper



[edit on 3/22/2010 by tothetenthpower]

[edit on 3/22/2010 by tothetenthpower]




posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:10 PM
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America is the only place where citizens haven't had their backs broken by government...yet


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posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by joey_hv
America is the only place where citizens haven't had their backs broken by government...yet


That's just as well as, from what I understand, half of the American population couldn't afford to get their backs fixed anyway.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:24 PM
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I just have a problem with the private insurance companies getting the money when it should be public insurance or a public system which would cost a fraction of the price.

Private insurance companies were the problem in the first place and they're going to be the problem the second time around.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
A bit of a warning here before I get into this.

This is not an anti-american thread. I love my neighboors, they are a good people. I just don't understand some things about your mentality..

Here's the the thing. You all SO worried about paying for anything these days in the states. You would rather fund wars then have a healthy population.


As a firm supporter of the Canadian system, I will submit my findings. Quite often, the debate is not over taking care of one's fellows, it is over which branch of government has responsibility for the issue, and whether it is within the purview of government, as set out by the founding fathers...to address the issue at all.

Like the Civil War, which was not over the issue of slavery, but over States' rights. American States and Canadian Provinces are not the same thing, and we tend to view them as such.

That being said, Universal Health Care is great and in my humble opinion, to oppose it is to pee in one's boot so as to keep one's foot warm.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:28 PM
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I agree.

It seems their is something morally wrong with America....although that could probably be said for the rest of the world too.

I can understand to a certain extent why some are getting upset, but on the otherhand some Americans are making wild exaggerations and fear mongering.

Some of the posts i've read about the whole thing are ridiculous.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:28 PM
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I am going to say this one last time then I am going to wander off into the forest, and eat nuts with the squirrels.

It is not that I myself don't want health care reform, it is this specific bill,

I hear people speak of how happy they are for this reform and then in the same breath say, what's in the bill.

I give up.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


I agree.

I'm also a firm supporter of our Canadian Health Care. Having a child who is ill 9 out of 12 months of the year really makes you appreciate what your government has done for you in this sense.

Let me clear, this wasn't opinion I was trying to get people to agree with here, it's a real question.

~Keeper



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Since you stated the wars were illegal, could you please post the law you claim they violated?

I'll be waiting.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


How many other bills have they passed and you knew exactly what was in them?

When the Patriot Act was passed did you know exactly what it entailed?



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:33 PM
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This was a good explanation from another member, projectvxn, on another topic, hope he doesn't mind.


projectvxn

I'm not against this because the Liberals did it, I'm against this because the American people, once again, were duped into supporting something against their interests. At the end of 2008 we had reports of many insurance industry giants being potentially insolvent. Since then many people have been dropped from coverage, as a result demands for Congress to take action went through the roof, and rather than reform we got a bailout of the insurance industry, with an individual mandate to keep their coffers full.


rather than reform we got a bailout of the insurance industry, with an individual mandate to keep their coffers full.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by brainwrek
reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Since you stated the wars were illegal, could you please post the law you claim they violated?

I'll be waiting.


Are you kidding me?

Really?

I won't do any sort of research that can you can find very easily in a few minutes with Google. It goes without saying that UN approval for war was saught, denied and George did whatever he wanted anyway.

That was illegal.

While you wait for the answer I won't give, I suggest you research the legality of the wars that are going on. You will be surprised.

Ohh to add, they are also illegal based on the fact that the government blatantly lied to the people about what they were going to war over.

~Keeper



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:34 PM
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Americans don't have any problem paying for their insurance. What they have a problem with is paying for OTHER PEOPLE'S insurance, especially under threat of law! If the issue was really about the uninsured, then they could have simply expanded medicaid - but it wasn't and they didn't.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Thoughts ATS?


I think you're under the mistaken impression that this health care bill is actually about health care and is addressing the non-existent "crisis". The government does not care one single bit about the health of the citizens. What they care about is money, power and control. That is what this bill is about. Period. Don't buy into the distracting health care rhetoric



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by joey_hv
America is the only place where citizens haven't had their backs broken by government...


I'm hoping this is a masterful exemplar of sarcasm, in your post. Because if you really meant it, well, it's just sad. The word "sheeple" is much used and abused here on ATS, but it would do here just fine in that case, I suppose.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
A bit of a warning here before I get into this.

This is not an anti-american thread. I love my neighboors, they are a good people. I just don't understand some things about your mentality..

Here's the the thing. You all SO worried about paying for anything these days in the states. You would rather fund wars then have a healthy population.

Do you see a problem with this?


I couldn't even get past this. There is much more opposition to the wars than the health care from what I can see. Also, it's not so much a health care reform...as it is saying you HAVE to buy insurance if you want to live in the US. Not to different than having to have insurance to drive, only now you have to pay to live.


I've heard that the senate bill will open competition and choice between states (more companies will be able to go to different states, as opposed to the monopolized system we have now). That's actually not a bad thing, and I like that part (IF it passes). BUT, that could have happened by itself if the states were smart enough to have done that themselves.


In any case. I already have insurance, so this won't affect me. But for those who can't afford it, now they're required to pay for it. lot of sense that makes.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Thoughts ATS?


I think you're under the mistaken impression that this health care bill is actually about health care and is addressing the non-existent "crisis". The government does not care one single bit about the health of the citizens. What they care about is money, power and control. That is what this bill is about. Period. Don't buy into the distracting health care rhetoric


I agree with you, but read above where I stated doing nothing because of a corrupt system isn't good enough either.

I do however think the crisis is very much real. Ask the millions of uninsured americans who loose their homes and their lives because they got sick.

~Keeper



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Simple. Freedom of choice. Why should anyone of age in the workforce have to pay for those who don't contribute? Children I believe should all get healthcare till they are old enough to provide their own. Retirees should have a program for them to receive healthcare after they retire. The biggest winners in this are lawyers. Wanna drive down the cost of medical treatment ? Cap the amount on lawsuits. Lawyers get a nice percentage of the settlements. For what really? Our system has it's flaws, there is no doubt about it. But America was founded on the ideal of FREEDOM. I still am in wonder about how this bill affects the health care that congresspeople have. What happens to future elected officials transfering from the mandated care to their deluxe plan? Are they going to be taxed on it? The new class system will be determined by what health coverage you receive
Politicians have theirs and the rest of us get something else?



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Here's the the thing. You all SO worried about paying for anything these days in the states. You would rather fund wars then have a healthy population.


I do not know where you get your information from, but I as an American do not want to fund wars, we have no choice in the matter we pay taxes and our government takes said tax money and funds said wars. You may say well get a new government, well who should we get? everyone says one thing to get elected then does another, its a never ending loop of hypocrisy.



Do you see a problem with this?


I do see the problem and so does most of America, again what can we do, honestly what can we do? we could revolt, have a civil war, and have one of three outcomes, we die for what we believe is right, we die and lose the fight and those that live pay the price even more, or we win and are back at square one which might not be a bad thing.



Let me be clear.

There is MORE of a stint, or an outcry I should say, over healthcare, than TWO ILLEGAL wars started and yet finished over the past decade.


I would say no to this, there is only a rise in cries over health care because the issue is rather fresh, look back over the past decade and you will see outcries over the wars, wars which most of the American citizens do not agree with or want, we want the troops out of other countries.



Really?


yes really.




Perhaps I am biased, I have had healthcare since the day I was born, never had to argue about it. Never really saw the cost of it as it's factored into our tax system so therefore I never had to give a doctor a cent in my wallet.


This is what we all want, but as you mention below that this bill is garbage, you see we are not crying over paying for health insurance, what I can see most are upset at being forced to pay for heal insurance they do not want.



If I did however, I would certainly rather remove my "hollywood" budget for peace of mind when it comes to my health.


This is rather a moronic comment, as would anyone in their right mind. If it comes down to it and I had to choose between seeing a doctor because I am sick over going to a movie when I am sick, the answer is clear what I would do.

What if the person is healthy and does the pay as s/he goes ordeal? should s/he pay out of pocket every month for being healthy? should s/he give up a liberty (something as simple as the movies) just to have the peace of mind knowing he is paying out of pocket for something s/he does not need?


This is about the fact that the American People would rather spend 1000$ dollars a year on junkfood and movies than health care.


At least they are getting enjoyment out of that $1000 a year.
With this new reform what is s/he really getting?


So my question is simple. If a good bill were introduced, one that actually made sense and helped most Americans get good coverage while preventing industry abuses, would you still whine about being FORCED to pay for it?


Yes, until I see something that benefits everyone equally and financially the same, I will question it.


If so, WHY? It completely makes no sense to me what so ever. You should all thrilled that they are at least attempting to rectify the problem and are having a debate about it. The issue has been largely ignored for the better part of 100 years.


So we should be thrilled we are being forced to pay for insurance? and being taxed on top of paying for insurance?, and if we don't we pay regardless? MAKES TOTAL SENSE to not be upset!



Why not get what you can out of the corrupt system now, versus having to dismantly everything later on?

What are we getting exactly since you have a clear understanding of what is being passed?

I want to know what other people from other countries actually think of this, rather than what Us Americans think.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by Arcane Demesne
 


The only reason most Americans can't afford it IMO is becaus they spend money frivolously and don't budget funds to the things that matter.

Health Care should be one of those things that matters.

Like I said if you spend 1000$ a month on junk and then complain about having to pay for Healthcare, you have foot in mouth disease.

~Keeper






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