What do you care what people believe? Grow up please.

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Originally posted by System

Originally posted by GW8UK
If he cant provide me with evidence that convinces me that god exists then he should just kill me. haha

You will never get that evidence because there is none. You always hear alot of people say 'prove God doesn't exist.' But the person that makes the claim has to provide the evidence. I find it strange that so many people believe in the Christian God but no one believes in my magical all powerful hat. They have the same amount of evidence

YOU say they have the same amount of evidence only because YOU do not have the evidence as active in your life. For those, like myself, who believe...we have evidence every day.

Originally posted by BRIMS7ON3
Faith is believing what you cannot see. Much of *trusting* in God requires Faith. What I'm speaking of is EVIDENCE in my life. Just as you cannot see the wind, but can see what the wind DOES...so you know it exists. I have no doubt in my mind that God, Yahweh, exists.

Furthermore whoever does not, has simply not opened their eyes.

PS..maybe if you learned how to *discuss* things, you wouldn't have to fear an argument.

So what you're saying is that you have no evidence whatsoever.

Originally posted by System

Originally posted by BRIMS7ON3
Faith is believing what you cannot see. Much of *trusting* in God requires Faith. What I'm speaking of is EVIDENCE in my life. Just as you cannot see the wind, but can see what the wind DOES...so you know it exists. I have no doubt in my mind that God, Yahweh, exists.

Furthermore whoever does not, has simply not opened their eyes.

PS..maybe if you learned how to *discuss* things, you wouldn't have to fear an argument.

So what you're saying is that you have no evidence whatsoever.

Right. Whatever you say. My own personal experience in MY life is not evidence.

Open your eyes bro. Our time is short, and EVERY knee will bow...including yours. Keep looking for your evidence even though you are surrounded by it...that makes sense.

First, I should state that I am not a Christian, nor any other clearly defined "faith". I have my own ideas about it...

That said though, I do find it curious that the more we learn about physics, the more it seems to imply that there is something to the idea of a "God"...(for lack of a better word)

The Bible (and most other religious texts) is a collection of different books by different authors, first and foremost, so it should be no surprise there are errors and/or contradictions. As some here have said, it's been reinterpreted, changed, etc. over the centuries.

However, that does not mean that profound truths cannot be gleaned from it. (or the other books of other religions, or the books left out of the Bible).

I will agree that such books and religions have been used as tools of control, but there really is no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater here.

Personally, I think the worst thing a religion can do though, is try and damn those who don't share the same beliefs, and make it an "us or them" argument. Whether you believe in God, Allah, Jehovah, Buddha, etc., we are all here from the same source, and to assume that any (benevolent) deity would want to doom most of his/her flock, is a pretty asinine statement to make, in my opinion....

Originally posted by Gazrok

Personally, I think the worst thing a religion can do though, is try and damn those who don't share the same beliefs, and make it an "us or them" argument. Whether you believe in God, Allah, Jehovah, Buddha, etc., we are all here from the same source, and to assume that any (benevolent) deity would want to doom most of his/her flock, is a pretty asinine statement to make, in my opinion....

That's just it though....regardless of which of the above mentioned entities is "God", there can be only one. They cannot possibly lead to the same place, UNLESS they are all wrong..

Let's say my mom remarried 5 times...someone may say I have 6 dads...and in a sense, 5 of them may be able to be called a "dad", but the reality is that I can have only one father.

Christians shouldn't "damn" anyone...but we, I, do have a responsibility to speak the truth, much as I would throw a life preserver to a drowning man. What if the life preserver is Blue in color, but the man drowning HATES blue? What if he absolutely despises all things blue, and in fact finds that color offensive? Do I not throw it to him for fear of offending him?

They cannot possibly lead to the same place, UNLESS they are all wrong..

Now you're cooking with gas... Which is why I choose not to follow a specific faith. I don't feel I have to "choose" an existing "ism" just because I choose to believe that some kind of divine force is behind everything.

Most western religions are exclusive (if you don't believe our way, you are damned)...oddly, most eastern religions don't go this route...

And of course, there is always the possibility I am wrong as well. At some point, we'll all find out, one way or another, right? (or just become worm-food)....


Here's an interesting quandary for any faith believing in a Heaven:

My wife was (many years ago), married to my best friend (and I was then just good friends with the woman who is now my wife). He was a great guy, but tragically died young (in his 20's). Before we got together (my wife and I), he was the love of her life. Now, I am. (and we've been together longer than they were now). So, if she were to pass on (whomever forbid)...and go to Heaven (she's actually a Catholic, though somewhat of a lapsed one), and I died, say in the same accident, etc. Who would she end up with in Heaven? Either way, one of us isn't happy, yet how can one be unhappy in Heaven?

People just don't think this whole paradise thing through very well (and how is worshipping someone 24/7 a picture of "paradise" anyhow?) Who cares if the streets are paved with gold (must be really bright on a sunny day)?

[edit on 22-3-2010 by Gazrok]

Wow...you are a moderator and you don't know that statement is patently false?

You can be a follower of ANY religion and still go to heaven. We Christians know that ONLY GOD can see your heart.

Please stop spreading this age old lie.

Being a Mod does not equate to omniscient knowledge on all things. However, in this case, my education helps in this regard.

I think you need to re-read a bit. Christians hold that only through Jesus can one go to Heaven. You may hold differently personally, but the scripture is quite emphatic on this.

For example.

Man A, born in rural China, is a good man all his life, but brought up to believe in Buddha. Rejects Jesus (as he's never heard of the guy even).

Man B, in prison for murdering his whole family, but at the end, accepts Jesus as his savior.

Christian doctrine holds Man A goes to Hell, and Man B goes to Heaven.

But, don't take my word for it, here's scripture....

Jesus says in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Jesus is the only way of salvation because He is the only One who can pay our sin penalty (Romans 6:23).

So, I stand by my claim that Christianity is an exclusive religion.

If you can cite some scripture supporting that one can (according to Christianity) be accepted into Heaven without accepting Jesus, please do so....

As I said before, I am not a Christian.

Don't get on me for misleading...it's your book, not mine.

As for those who went before Jesus going to Heaven, not really pertinent, is it? As we are talking about what happens NOW.... Of course they couldn't go through Jesus prior to his existence.

Your interpretation of "through Jesus" is but one possible interpretation (and not one agreed upon by many Christian scholars, nor indeed, many of your fellow Christians on this board I'd wager...)

Spreading lies....oh my, the drama....


The statement of exclusivity of western religions (and Christianity) is one that can be found in many religion and theology texts and papers authored by many writers with extensive and numerous degrees in theological fields.

Fisher, M. P. (2003). Living religions (5th ed.). Upper Saddle River, NJ: Prentice Hall.
Monaco, K. (2002, September/October). Religions of the world: Web resources for students. Book Report, 21(2), 46.
Morgan, J. T. (1992, Fall). Memory, land, and pilgrimage: Roots of spirituality. Religious Education, 87(4), 558.
Steinfels, P. (2000, January 8). The list of the world's major religions looks as it did at the dawn of the last millennium. New York Times, B7.

So it is not just the opinion of one humble moderator.

Disagree with the statement all you like, but it is hardly a "lie", just a difference of opinion...

If you can cite some scripture supporting that one can (according to Christianity) be accepted into Heaven without accepting Jesus, please do so....

Still waiting on those examples.....(and I'll add the stipulation that they must be after the inclusion of Jesus, as this is the current Christianity doctrine, since you are wont to include prior examples).....

[edit on 23-3-2010 by Gazrok]