Hey You... Yeah, you! The one complaining about the Healthcare Reform Bill...

reply to post by DreamerOracle

You tried to tell us what to do and think a couple centuries ago and it appears you're at it again.

reply to post by Thirty_Foot_Smurf

If anything I'd say that this can be interpreted in in the universal healthcare opponents favor. Since we are now under the financial slavery of China because we have to borrow the money to pay for Social Security and UHC.

Wow.

Slavery & Servitude are worlds apart from paying taxes.

No matter how sensational you try to become, you're still lying and making stuff up.

If you can't show me how the constitution shows that it's illegal for UHC to exist in this country, then please, by all means, keep dodging the question.

I know you will. Everyone always does. Because it's not true. It's a big fat lie, and you all willfully buy into it.

[edit on 26-3-2010 by Snarf]

reply to post by Snarf


You should maybe read this OP. It proves that we live in the legal definition of indentured servitude.Legal Slavery, right here in the United States of Hypocricy!

Sorry, government can run WITHOUT income taxation. It is a fallacy created by the Federal Reserve and other countries banking systems.

Where does all the money go that is paid in income taxes? You got it, to the banksters. Not one dime goes to anywhere else.

Open the eyes Snarf or are you CIP?

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by Thirty_Foot_Smurf

 

If anything I'd say that this can be interpreted in in the universal healthcare opponents favor. Since we are now under the financial slavery of China because we have to borrow the money to pay for Social Security and UHC.

Wow.

Slavery & Servitude are worlds apart from paying taxes.

No matter how sensational you try to become, you're still lying and making stuff up.

If you can't show me how the constitution shows that it's illegal for UHC to exist in this country, then please, by all means, keep dodging the question.

I know you will. Everyone always does. Because it's not true. It's a big fat lie, and you all willfully buy into it.

[edit on 26-3-2010 by Snarf]

I guess you know when you dealt a body blow when they resort to " Nu Uh...Your Lyin.."

I cant see how it is anything else but involuntary servitude ( financial slavery ) when you make one class or several classes serve a single other class. Think about it. Instead of the poor and middle class guys serving the rich here in a top down scheme the rolls have been reversed to a bottom up power structure with this healthcare bill. Now the rich and middle class have to serve the poor. Is it making sense now? In both cases the middle guy gets it in the rear. Some of you will be like YEAH stick it to the rich! Is it really hurting them? Really? Or is just another thing piled on to the guy in the middle? Another thing piled on to the small and medium sized business that employ a majority of Americans?

You can LOL and wow all you want but the unconstitutionality for involuntary servitude is right here.

13th amendment:

1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

I dont know how I could've said it better in my previous post. Apparently this simple idea of negative rights is so alien to you its just not digestible to your brain. Do yourself a favor and before you respond any more and please take a look at your state and local laws because they are going to be written pretty much the same way. I say pretty much because depending on the municipality they will actually have positive rights written for the people telling them what they can do in certain circumstances. They arent written to tell the states and local government every little thing they can do for the people but what they cant do to them. It would be a pretty silly way to legislate to say that if a freedom isn't in the law-books then you cant do it. You'd have to have a law-book written until infinity to accommodate all of your entitled freedoms. Think about it...I know its tricky for you but give it a shot.

Man, its scary who they'll let carry a gun these days. I would have thought they would've taught these things to you in police academy. Please petition for a desk job ASAP.


[edit on 27-3-2010 by Thirty_Foot_Smurf]

reply to post by endisnighe


*sigh*

Sensationalism always wins with the moronic masses. Conformity seems to exist most abundantly amongst those who rebuke it the most.

The political forums on ATS remind me of an episode of Family Guy



Except, instead of saing "9-11", all one has to do is say "Government Conspiracy" and the masses flow and say "S&F YAAA DOWN WITH GOVERNMENT"

Government is not great, im not saying it is. But blind hatred & Anarchy is just as bad...and in many cases, a lot worse.

[edit on 27-3-2010 by Snarf]

reply to post by Snarf


While I do have anarchist tendencies which is just the libertarian in me; I do not say down with the government. I do say reel in and de-fang an oppressive government that growing in power and on a fast track to bankrupting us. Bush and Obama's shenanigans have put us at risk of losing out AAA rating. Whos going to pay for all of this? So far its been China and now they're rumbling about not borrowing us any more. The Japanese have purchased a fair amount of our bonds too. What happens when China decides to punish us for our foreign or our trade policy and raises the interest rate on our debt to them? What happens then? I'll tell you. All we ever do is tread water because we can only afford to pay interest while the whole time making China more powerful and us weaker. What do you think they are going to spend all that money on?

Obama's already scared of how they will react to the things we do. Remember how he treated the Dali Lama?



Poor guy was humiliated by having to leave through the back door. Just because Obama didnt want a photo op interpreted negatively by the Chinese. There is such a larger game going on here that people aren't seeing because they are too focused on one thing.


[edit on 27-3-2010 by Thirty_Foot_Smurf]

I really don't get why people in the US are so opposed to this bill??
Don't they want to pay less for healthcare?
Don't they want....even the low payed to pay thier share too?
Each person contributes to what ever you end up calling it(the UHS for want of the official name IDK) going on what you earn. So its win win......Low payed who couldn't afford healthcare now pay a contribution. The Rich will end up paying less than they are todate due to more people INVESTING in the UHS.
Not forgetting the big picture your all missing. Your employee now not paying for a company Healthcare Policy can now afford to pay his staff more.
As for all this quoting the bill of rights or what ever you call it......it was written along time ago....what may have worked back then in thier time frame, majority of it won't work in the 21st Century.
I'm glad I live where Platonism is alive and well in its true form as Gordon Brown will find out to his detriment this summer. The Bush loving back stabbers on his way out.
Our laws etc. are changed as we go. We dont rely on a peice of paper written centuries ago to shape the modern times we live in.

Don't get me wrong its a marvelous piece of HISTORY and in the spirit of those who wrote it...They were Innovators of their time and would not treat this document as unchangeable. If they were alive today they'd change the rights of the Americans of the past to bring it up to date for the future benifits of its state and the people in it. They would not favor those that could afford to those that couldn't. Isn't that what the whole thing was written and fought for against the tyranny and taxes of England and the Crown(the rich). Yet you bandy these words on paper around today to defend the fact that if you can afford health thats ok and those that can't well tough!

[edit on 28-3-2010 by DreamerOracle]

Only a few prefer liberty, while the majority seek nothing more than fair masters.

We were pissed off or weren't you listening? And what the hell does bush have to do with zero? just because bush sucked is it ok that zero and crowd do too? just at a much higher level? you like it that the present administration took over 2 major car mfg's, has basically nationalized the banking industry, the student loan industry, told the share holders to go screw themselves and gave the stock to the UAW and kept some for themselves, instigated the closure of hundreds of dealerships, primarily owned by republican backers, has developed a full employment plan for the insurance industry and big pharma, the list goes on? So instead of compassionate conservatism we get Mussolini light. Great, nice job dems.

Originally posted by mhc_70
Only a few prefer liberty, while the majority seek nothing more than fair masters.

What IS fair is YOU stay off my back, keep your grubby little fingers out of my pocket, and DO NOT tell ME what I SHOULD DO for YOU and there will be peace.

If any of you socialists out there try to FORCE me into laboring for YOU so that YOU will FEEEEEEL equal to me or whomever, I'll kick your asses to hell and back. I hates socialists with a passion. Try to enslave ME to achieve YOUR goals, socialist, and you'll be sorry .. sorry until your heart stops beating. My life is mine, not yours, and I do not give YOU permission to use it to make YOU equal. Got that, socialists!!! Dang commies, I hates them so much.

online.wsj.com...

Very interesting article. Last paragraph:

"The Democratic political calculation with ObamaCare is the proverbial boiling frog: Gradually introduce a health-care entitlement by hiding the true costs, hook the middle class on new subsidies until they become unrepealable, but try to delay the adverse consequences and major new tax hikes so voters don't make the connection between their policy and the economic wreckage. But their bill was such a shoddy, jerry-rigged piece of work that the damage is coming sooner than even some critics expected."

Originally posted by DreamerOracle
As for all this quoting the bill of rights or what ever you call it......it was written along time ago....what may have worked back then in thier time frame, majority of it won't work in the 21st Century.
[edit on 28-3-2010 by DreamerOracle]

If you don't even know what the document is named I hardly think you've ever read it to begin with. That said you are less than qualified to comment on the American Constitution's functionality in a modern society.

Ask yourself this. Has human nature toward greed and power changed since the beginning of recorded history? Do you think it is going to end anytime soon? If you would have took the time to read it before you felt so inclined to comment then you would see that it is a document largely limiting those human " tendencies " in a governmental context.

Why don't you give it a good read and the report back to us as to what parts you think are out of date. Go ahead and put your money where your mouth is.

Given this whole health-care debacle it is just a relevant now as 200 years ago. I shudder to imagine what they would be trying to do us without its protection.


[edit on 28-3-2010 by Thirty_Foot_Smurf]

Originally posted by Divinorumus

Originally posted by mhc_70
Only a few prefer liberty, while the majority seek nothing more than fair masters.

What IS fair is YOU stay off my back, keep your grubby little fingers out of my pocket, and DO NOT tell ME what I SHOULD DO for YOU and there will be peace.

If any of you socialists out there try to FORCE me into laboring for YOU so that YOU will FEEEEEEL equal to me or whomever, I'll kick your asses to hell and back.

I hates socialists with a passion. Try to enslave ME to achieve YOUR goals, socialist, and you'll be sorry .. sorry until your heart stops beating.

My life is mine, not yours, and I do not give YOU permission to use it to make YOU equal. Got that, socialists!!!

Dang commies, I hates them so much.

i didn't know there were people that talked like this anymore

Since were going to adopt the rest of the civilized worlds healthcare system...Are we going to see our survivability rates to disease:

A) Drop to their level.
B) Stay the same.
C) Increase as a direct result contrary to the inefficiencies of socialized medicine.

Bonus question:

What happens when the 20 million or so illegals get amnesty and hop on in addition to the reported 35 million were now going to cover? 55 million not too burdensome?

I was thinking of replying fully but after reviewing these posts just makes me sigh.......
So far all I've seen in reply makes me say.......There are kind people who share and there are other people that don't.
I've read and studied the document established on Aug 2 1776 and the fact it was written pertaining to the influence of British Parliment and King George III on the Colonies and the rights of the people in those colonies.
The Declaration of Independence, in addition to calling for peace in your country, called for four basic things: the right to pass your own laws, to operate your own courts of law, to trade with other nations, and to create your own tax system.
YOUR doesn't mean 1 person who disagrees or even groups, it means NATION the whole basis of a Democracy.


FYI I'm a Platonist, not a socialist.



[edit on 29-3-2010 by DreamerOracle]