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Hey You... Yeah, you! The one complaining about the Healthcare Reform Bill...

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posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 04:57 AM
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I followed this all the way from Sweden. Sure i suport good health for everyone, but one thing is pretty clear; to pass this bill they had to "cheat" a lot.
Now; one more thing is clear; when visiting websites one would think the oposition is very very wide spread, yet there was only a few maybe 200 people outside protesting..so i would rather think there are a very few very loud activ rep on the net making a lot of noice. But in in the real world you are only a few and the bill is "on".

One more; the double morality in the US is ..no words my english is insuficient. The major argument against the bill was money for abortion, to save lives blah blah..killing Iraqui children is no problem..or afghan or american in a twin tower.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 04:57 AM
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The main problem you reach from either side of the fence when it comes to america, the people, government and the whole mess is one question.


What are we going to do about it?

There are some people who don't complain, but at the same time we don't back what's going on.

What exactly can we do?

You hold a rally and people will show up, but not the nation.
Send out fliers? Make a post on ATS that stuff needs to change?

as funny as it may sound, the people of America who are dumbed down, and even the few that seem to know what's going on would need something or someone big with all the answers to bring in change.

They need a Savior...






but ultimately it's not just America. It's the world.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 04:59 AM
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I am all for bashing either side, but this is like pointing fingers on a sinking ship. it is still going down no matter who caused it, no one is fixing it. the people are being ignored, insurance companies win. next up, another stimulus, er I mean jobs bill.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 05:01 AM
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reply to post by Thoreau1
 



As I said, it's closer then someone making a decision without a vote, it's almost a democracy and it's a lot better then a dictatorship.

i]reply to post by calstorm
 


I bet I could be further from the truth, but I digress. If you pay taxes, then tell me when you were last able to pick what your taxes go towards (besides charity portion). I'll help you out some more: Never is when. So you don't like what Democrats have decided to do with your tax money, tough luck. The government gets to pick what happens with your tax dollars, this time it may be something you will need when you are all grown up and have grown up health issues.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 05:06 AM
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Originally posted by Mumbotron
reply to post by Subjective Truth
 


I think it's obvious that the majority of people who have a problem with the health care bill are expressing a conservative viewpoint. That's right, the viewpoint that says "I don't want to pay more taxes" and "the government should stay out of private enterprise" are notoriously right wing points of view. Call it what you want, but for the sake simplicity you can just call them conservatives, or republicans.



I asked if you could point out were I made this point so I could clear it up. Or are you just pretending you did not say that?



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 05:14 AM
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Originally posted by Mumbotron
reply to post by Subjective Truth
 


I think it's obvious that the majority of people who have a problem with the health care bill are expressing a conservative viewpoint. That's right, the viewpoint that says "I don't want to pay more taxes" and "the government should stay out of private enterprise" are notoriously right wing points of view. Call it what you want, but for the sake simplicity you can just call them conservatives, or republicans.


you do realize, this isn't healthcare....this is health insurance that the bill is striving to deliver to everyone right??
I have a job, I have insurance...ya know what, I also have a health condition that I am letting just fester because the cost of the healthcare, even with insurance is just plain outrageous!!! Not working this physically demanding job would alleviate alot of problems related to this health condition, and guess what.....
I don't care what kind of laws this gov't passes!! I am working at getting out of this job, even if it means creating my own job (self employed) which means, there is no chance in hades of me being able to afford the health insurance! Just a better chance of living a little longer, being able to eat a little more, having a little more enjoyable life!!!

not all of us are against this bill because we're conservative. some of us are already sick and tired of working our butts off, getting taxed into oblivion, and listening to our federal, state, and local gov'ts whine how they need even more of our money "because of the cost of healthcare"!!! Some of us, like my kids, have had their hours cut to near part time, and are getting letters in the mail about their healthcoverage being suspended because those hours are part time!! Threatening them with heavy fines and jail isn't gonna prompt them to go follow that magical rainbow to the end to find that illusionary pot of gold so that they can afford the full price of the insurance!!
the actual cost of the healthcare has to be brought down!! I haven't seen or heard too much of anything in this bill that I believe will actually do this! although I heard, and seen alot of stories like this one...

www.syracuse.com...

they are just forcing the american people to fork more money over for a disfunctional healthcare system so that their big wig buddies can have more money!! that's all....



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 05:15 AM
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Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
OK, I will state right up front that this has just got me steamed up! I log on tonight to find both my facebook page and naturally, ATS just brimming with the "OH NOEZ, WE'RE DOOMED" partisan panic crowd screaming the sky is falling because those evil bastard Democrats passed a Healthcare Reform Bill. How dare they spend our tax dollars!! OK, I have just one question for you 'Conservatives'...



What do you mean by conservatives? Is this partisan? Now that I am proving what I have been saying will you follow your own advice? It is hard to argue with people that don't understand reality. It is like arguing with a child that wants its way. Have I made my point or do you need me to draw you a picture also?



There's your answer to your trolly sounding question. That is the post to which I was responding that got you all excited.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 05:19 AM
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Partisan? What, do you expect all of ATS to automatically bow down to the Health Care bill? Do you expect everyone to not question the motives behind the backing of this bill, and the blatant corruption that just took place?

Oh, and why don't you do some research, and go through the countless threads that blasted Bush & Cheney. They range from them spending money, to them calling "martial law," to them being shapeshifting reptiles from Planet X.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 05:20 AM
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Originally posted by Mumbotron


Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
OK, I will state right up front that this has just got me steamed up! I log on tonight to find both my facebook page and naturally, ATS just brimming with the "OH NOEZ, WE'RE DOOMED" partisan panic crowd screaming the sky is falling because those evil bastard Democrats passed a Healthcare Reform Bill. How dare they spend our tax dollars!! OK, I have just one question for you 'Conservatives'...



What do you mean by conservatives? Is this partisan? Now that I am proving what I have been saying will you follow your own advice? It is hard to argue with people that don't understand reality. It is like arguing with a child that wants its way. Have I made my point or do you need me to draw you a picture also?



There's your answer to your trolly sounding question. That is the post to which I was responding that got you all excited.




I was pointing out how the OP was using the word conservative to paint everyone how does this make me partisan? I think you need to re-read it again. I never said a partisan thing in this thread. Not once. You are reading between the lines and assuming.

[edit on 22-3-2010 by Subjective Truth]



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 05:23 AM
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Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
OK, I will state right up front that this has just got me steamed up! I log on tonight to find both my facebook page and naturally, ATS just brimming with the "OH NOEZ, WE'RE DOOMED" partisan panic crowd screaming the sky is falling because those evil bastard Democrats passed a Healthcare Reform Bill. How dare they spend our tax dollars!! OK, I have just one question for you 'Conservatives'...

WHY WEREN'T YOU THIS UPSET WHEN BUSH AND CHENEY WERE GOING THROUGH OUR MONEY LIKE DRUNKEN SAILORS ON SHORE LEAVE???

Where was your anger when Bush gave a huge tax cut to his rich buddies and created the damn deficit that being added to now??? At least that adulterous worm Clinton left a SURPLUS when he left office! Or is it OK if they waste our tax money as long as they have a frakkiin' (R) after their names????

Here's another question for all of you GENIUSES out there: Remember those really EVIL variable rate mortgages that were given out to people who couldn't afford to pay them once the rate 'varied'??? You know, the financial instruments that caused the housing market to collapse, put MILLIONS of Americans out of work, and had the Wall Street Banksters getting bailed out by us taxpayers??? Why are those frakkin' things still legal??? Why hasn't ANYONE from EITHER side of the aisle proposed legislation to make those wretched things ILLEGAL???

NO!!!

I'll tell you why, because ALL politicians, whether they have a (D) or an (R) after there names work for the same people, THE SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS!!!

So go ahead and whine and moan about the damn Healthcare Reform Bill... You have EXACTLY the kind of Government you DESERVE!!!

IDIOTS!


Yes I was upset and so was every Republican I know. And just so you know, Bush didn't spend like a conservative, he spent like a liberal. Conservativism is for smaller govt that spends less money. Bush grew the size of govt 2 fold (even not including military or homeland security), and until Obama, spent more than any President in history. Bush was a big govt politician. That is not conservativism. His policies are not the examples you should look to for a true conservative. Bush was less conservative than a Blue Dog democrat. And that is the truth.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 05:29 AM
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reply to post by Subjective Truth
 


So what, you didn't directly express your political affiliation. All I said is you and the other people who take strong issue with this are mostly expressing what is traditionally a Conservative viewpoint. That's pretty simple, now I hope we can put an end to this trollish sidetrack into the irrelevant.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 05:32 AM
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Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by EMPIRE
 


Budget surplus, and yes he did... He couldn't keep his Johnson in his pants, but he could stay within a budget, and actually spend less than what was brought in...



Any Surplus wasn't from budget restraints or frugality,
he proposed tax increases and he had the good fortune of having umteen Military bases closed and added to the accounting ledger as revenue producing assets, instead of being budget costs



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 05:37 AM
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reply to post by JaxonRoberts
 


Calling people names doesn't help anyone. There were plenty of people complaining about all the things you mentioned at the time. THings get worse, people get louder, a good thing.
Most of us are not blaming the dems, perhaps they did this one but they are as much dupes anyone else.
R/D? Who the H* cares, kick em all out.
This is however, likely the straw that broke the camels back.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 05:41 AM
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I have chronic pancreatic condition through having gallstones stuck in bile duct,i am also left with scarring on liver fibrosis /cirrhosis.I attend certain forums with other people who have these conditions and i am always envious of how Americans got seen to very quickly ,not to mention countless specialized test what was done on blood work for the Americans,things like monitoring proteins,and lots of other important blood enzyme tests or screens,basically i am saying i hope you get a better system than ours in the damp UK.Which is fine for mundane things like i have had a broken ankle twice ,also tonsils taken out when young, But for the last ten years since my gallbladder erupted, which i was in massive rolling on the floor pain,might i add check any forum in the uk this is common to be sent home in agony with pills all the time getting more damage to organs a i had 4 acute attacks ,on the fourth attack after takeing everything from tramadol,codiene,and morphine finally something what worked the morph.,they booked a second scan and they said oh we should of sent you for an ERCP 15 stones in gallblader 4 in bile duct,i am mad in pain very poorly this was 4th attack in so many months a diff doctor every time,this guy he was a good doc at AE i tried 3 diff hospitals all have same protocol they risk damageing you doctors told me the system is wrong and ops should be done to prevent damage soon as swelling down within a week without eating more in his opinion, this booking of ERCP cost me about a week of pain in hospital,then they sent me home saying i need gallbladder out so i go home 4 months later and to come in to hospital at Christmas, i go man luck,,A shootings happen in Manchester UK,I am catapulted back,, i am put to the back again ,doc comes apologies says hes sorry but the man drug dealer who was shot took my slot in theatre a few peoples slots and now him and his team are going home for Christmas armed police guarding this man all over hospital frightening"he must of been a grass" ,any way the doc he sent me home after me being in for 4 days christmas eve i still couldnt eat even soup kicked me off. missed loads chris shopping,i was sent home with pills got an operation appointment for another 4 mths away, when a new building they have was to open doing same day in and out keyhole surgery. went in had it done now i have permanent damage to pancreas from stones stuck in duct blocking enzymes , i now take with food pancrex/pancreotin/creo , daily mst 2 morning 2 night with morphine for brake through pain , even now meat makes me very ill also preservatives in food like cakes dairy "LIFE SUCKS FOR ME" i am living on chips and soup.now anyone who reads this go to a forum where people with gallbladder /pancreas/liver problems in the uk and read/listen to horrific stories,i have asked consultants to run certain tests,They reply we dont do them here its not America "honestly"In a heath care system you dont have a say in your health, its this choice or rules determined from who or cost cutting always saving money t,what i mean is the forums i attend in America people get sorted fast. Yes thee is the odd horror story but docs are driven by huge amounts of cash from insurance so they test you for all eventualities everything. even the specialized blood work tests for breakdown of food and stuff also how well its working and if you need ajustments they guess with amount of pancrex here which can destroy your stomach. we only get 1 type blood test called LFT, "liver function test" maybe a urine sample 24 hour had one in ten years this is all i want to say, if you are working then stick to your insurance .IN the Bas t uk ,People with the money register with bupa for fast prompt private care but still have to pay for both NHS and bupa, YOU carnt get away from gov its both or you stick with the one gov NHS paid from wages. BUPA which is private and my brother has it well the millions who can afford this well they have left the NHS to back of mind bet you havent heard of that in America ,so why carnt you IN usa have both.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by Mumbotron
reply to post by Subjective Truth
 


So what, you didn't directly express your political affiliation. All I said is you and the other people who take strong issue with this are mostly expressing what is traditionally a Conservative viewpoint. That's pretty simple, now I hope we can put an end to this trollish sidetrack into the irrelevant.




What you said I was being partisan? And now you say that I never expressed my political affiliation. Hmmm thank you for making my point for me I appreciate it. And you do alot of assuming don't you. Maybe you should try just sticking to the facts for awhile it is easier and you look less foolish.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 05:44 AM
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Originally posted by dashar
I have chronic pancreatic condition through having gallstones stuck in bile duct,i am also left with scarring on liver fibrosis /cirrhosis.I attend certain forums with other people who have these conditions and i am always envious of how Americans got seen to very quickly ,not to mention countless specialized test what was done on blood work for the Americans,things like monitoring proteins,and lots of other important blood enzyme tests or screens,basically i am saying i hope you get a better system than ours in the damp UK.Which is fine for mundane things like i have had a broken ankle twice ,also tonsils taken out when young, But for the last ten years since my gallbladder erupted, which i was in massive rolling on the floor pain,might i add check any forum in the uk this is common to be sent home in agony with pills all the time getting more damage to organs a i had 4 acute attacks ,on the fourth attack after takeing everything from tramadol,codiene,and morphine finally something what worked the morph.,they booked a second scan and they said oh we should of sent you for an ERCP 15 stones in gallblader 4 in bile duct,i am mad in pain very poorly this was 4th attack in so many months a diff doctor every time,this guy he was a good doc at AE i tried 3 diff hospitals all have same protocol they risk damageing you doctors told me the system is wrong and ops should be done to prevent damage soon as swelling down within a week without eating more in his opinion, this booking of ERCP cost me about a week of pain in hospital,then they sent me home saying i need gallbladder out so i go home 4 months later and to come in to hospital at Christmas, i go man luck,,A shootings happen in Manchester UK,I am catapulted back,, i am put to the back again ,doc comes apologies says hes sorry but the man drug dealer who was shot took my slot in theatre a few peoples slots and now him and his team are going home for Christmas armed police guarding this man all over hospital frightening"he must of been a grass" ,any way the doc he sent me home after me being in for 4 days christmas eve i still couldnt eat even soup kicked me off. missed loads chris shopping,i was sent home with pills got an operation appointment for another 4 mths away, when a new building they have was to open doing same day in and out keyhole surgery. went in had it done now i have permanent damage to pancreas from stones stuck in duct blocking enzymes , i now take with food pancrex/pancreotin/creo , daily mst 2 morning 2 night with morphine for brake through pain , even now meat makes me very ill also preservatives in food like cakes dairy "LIFE SUCKS FOR ME" i am living on chips and soup.now anyone who reads this go to a forum where people with gallbladder /pancreas/liver problems in the uk and read/listen to horrific stories,i have asked consultants to run certain tests,They reply we dont do them here its not America "honestly"In a heath care system you dont have a say in your health, its this choice or rules determined from who or cost cutting always saving money t,what i mean is the forums i attend in America people get sorted fast. Yes thee is the odd horror story but docs are driven by huge amounts of cash from insurance so they test you for all eventualities everything. even the specialized blood work tests for breakdown of food and stuff also how well its working and if you need ajustments they guess with amount of pancrex here which can destroy your stomach. we only get 1 type blood test called LFT, "liver function test" maybe a urine sample 24 hour had one in ten years this is all i want to say, if you are working then stick to your insurance .IN the Bas t uk ,People with the money register with bupa for fast prompt private care but still have to pay for both NHS and bupa, YOU carnt get away from gov its both or you stick with the one gov NHS paid from wages. BUPA which is private and my brother has it well the millions who can afford this well they have left the NHS to back of mind bet you havent heard of that in America ,so why carnt you IN usa have both.





Wow I can not read this could you break it up a little please. Paragraphs and spellcheck are a good thing.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 05:46 AM
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reply to post by dashar
 


Think about it this way, if you had been under the USA's old private insurance only option you would have been denied coverage a long time ago due to preexisting conditions. If you had Health insurance executive kind of money, maybe you'd be able to afford those fantastic medical services with your litany of conditions.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 05:49 AM
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reply to post by Mumbotron
 


Hmmm, I wonder how old you think I am. When I grow up? You mean like when I am 80? Sorry middle age is creeping close enough as it is. When I have health problems and need insurance? Been there done that and dr.s couldn't do anything for me that's why I turned to alternative medicine. You assume way to much about me.

Edited for posting while half asleep

[edit on 22-3-2010 by calstorm]
edit again wow I need to go to bed.

[edit on 22-3-2010 by calstorm]



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 05:52 AM
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Originally posted by calstorm
reply to post by Mumbotron
 


Hmmm, I wonder who old you think I am. When I grow up? You mean like when I am 80? Sorry middle age is creeping close enough as it is. When I have health problems and need insurance? Been there done that and dr.s couldn't do anything for me that's why I turned to alternative medicine. You assume way to much about me.

Edited for posting while half asleep

[edit on 22-3-2010 by calstorm]




This poster does nothing but assume. I fear the truth and facts do not matter to this individual.



posted on Mar, 22 2010 @ 05:57 AM
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My biggest problem with the healthcare bill is sitting right in frnt of m in my paper as we speak.

"For the first time most americans would be required to purhase insurance or face penalties if they refused."

I understand why it is law to have vehicular insurance, cause it protects other drivers from your bad driving, and protects you if someone is uninsured. Should vehicular insurance be regulated if it is going to be law that you have it? Sure.

But, why force people to get health insurance if they don't want it?



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