Health Care Bill Conspiracie: Money Rasing Fraud, page 1

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Topic started on 22-3-2010 @ 12:11 AM by Logarock

I did some figures on what kind of money the FG would be bringing in under the insurance tax/fine.

If just 50million (currently about 150million employed) americans decided to pay the fine rather than purchase insurance it would generate ....17,500,000,000 the first year at 350$ a head. Now think about that in light of all the flap. It is interesting that the number of new IRS agents is said to be 17,000. (feel free to correct this math if need be) Thats then 24,500,000,000 the second year.

Fines for the second year are about 650$ a head per year. After that its 2.5% of income. And you will remain uninsured.

Now you just do the math. Naturaly that will be taken from your tax return.

reply posted on 22-3-2010 @ 12:13 AM by Mountainmeg

I've thought about this. This would be a good reason to adjust your withholding allowances (W4 form) so that you actually have a small amount due on your taxes. Hard to withhold a refund if there isn't one.

reply posted on 22-3-2010 @ 12:19 AM by Logarock

reply to post by Mountainmeg

But then the bums will send you a bill.

reply posted on 22-3-2010 @ 12:20 AM by Mountainmeg

At least it will take them longer and more manpower to get it out of us. Gotta give those 16,000 IRS agents something to do...

reply posted on 22-3-2010 @ 12:25 AM by Logarock

reply to post by Mountainmeg

This is crazy. Now even the very little guy working at the ....you name it for minimun wage will be paying into the system even though he or she has no insurance themselves.

This is certainly a very creative regressive tax. And thats thier favorite.

reply posted on 22-3-2010 @ 02:42 AM by Rockpuck

reply to post by Logarock

Not so much..

If you calculate the highest forced premium (2.5%) at .. lets say $70,000 (middle class) .. the premium comes to: $1,750/yr as a fine.

This equates to: $145.83 per month.

Anyone who's paying for insurance knows that $145 is cheap insurance.

Add the husband and or wife: $291.60 aint bad either.

(It is my understanding under this new law that children are exempt from the "head count" due to poor people having more kids.

Especially in light of this: The Government is now FORCING the Insurance companies to accept pre-existing conditions. Don't have insurance, then get cancer, just get insurance to cover the costs. Since the Insurance companies cannot allocate single groups to one or two people, they force them into pools, the pools premium rises per condition.. lets say you have 3 healthy people paying $200 a month for health insurance.. a new guy comes in with heart disease, arthritis, diabetes .. everyone's new premium is not $450 to cover the costs of all those conditions, because its against regulation to force all of the costs onto one person (it defeats the purpose of insurance) ..

Essentially.. people will be forced out of policies due to higher costs.. or, at the very least.. those with pre existing conditions won't be able to afford private insurance, so they pay the fee (which is hella cheaper anyways) and get subpar insurance (the Government is notorious for not spending money on adequate care, ask any vet) ..

It is, in a sense, a baby step towards complete socialized medicine. It will NOT raise money for the Government.. the Government WILL NOT profit from this endeavor.. it will soon become the single most expensive social undertaking this country has ever seen.. and god forbid the insurance companies start folding and consolidating.. million more will be added to unemployment, and our nations largest purchaser of debt may move to other markets (no one holds more US debt outside of the Fed Reserve than insurance companies.)

Interesting times ahead.

reply posted on 22-3-2010 @ 02:59 AM by redhatty

reply to post by Logarock

The "fine" you refer to only applies to employers who do not provide ins. for their employees.

Remember, the Senate bill is the one that is moving forward

A very objective article on the realities of this "reform" can be found here

From the article:

This bill will mandate that millions of people who are currently uninsured must purchase insurance from private companies, or the IRS will collect up to 2% of their annual income in penalties. Some will be assisted with government subsidies.

that 2% of income is from GROSS income

Those helped by "gov subsidies" are actually helped by the higher income taxpayers, since all entitlements are paid for by our taxes anyway.

This reform does nothing but force people to buy insurance, or pay for refusing to.

It does not change the costs of health care, in fact it does little to nothing at all to change health care.

reply posted on 22-3-2010 @ 08:32 AM by Logarock

Originally posted by redhatty
reply to post by Logarock

The "fine" you refer to only applies to employers who do not provide ins. for their employees.

The dig is that many employers that do not provide insurance now and have no way of doing so in the future will be fined. This will bring many small companies with say....well you pick the number...under this fine and will amount to many more millions of $ on top of whatever the above figure is. This will certainly be passed on to the customer.

In addition large companies like say a fast food chain, that already keep employees hours under say 32 per week so that they are not required to carry insurance will now have to pay a fine on each. This to will be passed on to the consumer.

Other companies will just drop insurance all together and just pay the fine. To recoup these losses insurance companies will probably rasie rates passing the higher cost on to the consumer that can pay.

reply posted on 22-3-2010 @ 08:38 AM by Logarock

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Logarock

Essentially.. people will be forced out of policies due to higher costs.. or, at the very least.. those with pre existing conditions won't be able to afford private insurance, so they pay the fee (which is hella cheaper anyways) and get subpar insurance (the Government is notorious for not spending money on adequate care, ask any vet) ..

Interesting times ahead.

I see a sort of limbo being created for people that work, dont have insurance and wont be able to afford insurance on thier own but will be fined none the less.

reply posted on 22-3-2010 @ 08:50 AM by wylee

My favorite part is that the benefits do not start till 2013 and full coverage doesn't start till 2015.

So we get to pay for non-existent healthcare for 2 years, a lot can happen in 2 years.

With the IRS collecting it, I fear this money will be used to pay off central banks we owe our national debt to and will have nothing to do with our health. This is just a way to increase taxesfor those making less that the $250k per household.

Granted I'm a little cynical. I used to work for a state legislature.

reply posted on 22-3-2010 @ 09:09 AM by Logarock

reply to post by wylee

Right oh! Just set down and do a little math and all this amounts to billions in fines over the next two years. Big money rake!

reply posted on 22-3-2010 @ 02:44 PM by vor78

Originally posted by Logarock
I see a sort of limbo being created for people that work, dont have insurance and wont be able to afford insurance on thier own but will be fined none the less.

Many of those people will see a decline in their standard of living as they're forced to sell off assets and cut back on their lifestyle in order to afford the mandate. Given that these people will almost all be classified as the 'working poor'...people who are already just barely scraping by... these cutbacks won't be to luxury items, but necessities such as clothes, food, their vehicles, or even their home in extreme cases. Some of them may even drop off of society's radar altogether.

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