I see that rather then dealing with the issue presented i.e. the law was written to become a cause celeb wedge issue for the 2004 election; you choose to say the Judge was bias - An offer an ad hominem as a distraction from avoiding the issue at hand.

You are then saying (cutting away all the baloney) Judge who made the finding in Abortion case is bias (Citing a case which proves nothing in support of your charge) because of a decision in the Islam case. Since she was bias there she must be bias in all her decisions; therefore the decision in the Abortion case is bias too and must be dismissed as having any merit.

This is called circular reasoning. Circular reasoning is what children do most often and is called magical thinking. In any event…………..it is fallacious.

The judge, U.S. District Judge Phyllis Hamilton, whom you so callously slander, calling her a bigot, is a highly thought of and well respected moderate African-American Judge. She has come under attack by the Right Wing because in her decision on partial birth abortion she had the temerity to point out what Congress was up to and the false scientific information (LIES) Congress used in support of writing such a law.

As I said from the start, the law was politically motivated - Designed as a wedge issue for the national elections. If you still believe that Republicans have your best interests in mind, you’re sadly mistaken and closed mined to the facts. I understand – what I suggest - how threatening this may be to your core beliefs but to remain that way is for you to assent to being used.

And I find that to be most sad.

Bush's partial birth abortion ban shot down by California Supreme Court Judge.

I just saw the subject you started this string with……………….It is inaccurate, untrue and misleading. Have you any idea of how out judiciary functions?

It should read:

Bush's partial birth abortion ban shot down by Federal District Court Judge in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California

What your subject line said is a State Supreme Court Judge had overturned a federal law. That’s a legal and procedural impossibility.

Also it is not the ‘infamous’ Ninth Circuit - that dreaded coven for liberal activist judges – you made reference to………………The Ninth Circuit is an Appellate court. Appealed decisions would be heard by this court.

You might ask, if thee was such a commitment to banning PBA, why didn’t the Ashcroft Justice Department take an Appeal to the next level and then to the Supreme Court. Rather then abandoning the issue at the lowest level of the Judiciary?

I will not bother with the rest of your reply because I see your mind is closed- unwilling to learn. Let’s just say, we agree to disagree and leave it at that…………..

Have a nice life.

Why leave it at the level it is at. Because the ruling already has a nationwide effect even though it is just a california supreme court official who voted the law unconstitutional. Hamilton's ruling applies to Planned Parenthood clinics and their doctors, who perform roughly half the nation's abortions. There are around 900 of those clinics nationwide.

There are other cases for the same reason going on in new york and elsewhere. If the other state supreme courts rulings differ then it will go to the federal supreme court. If the federal supreme says it's unconstitutional to ban it then it will become legal in even the states where it is currently banned unless there is an underlined stipulation to allow a state to choose. That is why this ruling is so terrible. It does have a natiowide affect and it will go to the federal supreme court. Hopefully those justices have a little more common sense that an idiot who would force kids to become muslims for 2 weeks.

NO. It's not a STATE COURT. It is a Federal District Court It is the lowest court in the Federal system of courts.

AND, NO! It only applies to the District it was decided in...............

You have no idea of how one of the cornerstones of our system of government works. Do you!

Give it up. You’re beginning to become annoying………………

A federal judge supported murder bottom line. It has a natiowide affect for all the clinics affected.

You're out to lunch pal..............go away or get a time out

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Besides, Venus, you mean to tell me after all this dialogue, we still don't see eye to eye? Well, I guess that is how it is. Guess we'll have to resign ourselves to being friends that don't agree on everything. Makes discussion more interesting. Otherwise, we'd be taking turns singing to the choir, and that is pretty boring!

I am so glad we can agree to disagree! After reading the post before this one I was thinking we were going to go the other direction. I guess you really are more open minded then I previously thought ...thank you
************************************************************

Those arguing about this issue being political -

I see where you are coming from but when it all comes down.....it doesn't matter one bit what political party you are registered to. Take a look at these stats and really think about it. At the bottom you'll see that more people are becoming "pro-life" and I do believe that shows the political side but all in all I think the world is pro-choice!

Abortion Statistics - World - U.S. - Demographics - Reasons
Abortion Statistics - World

In 54 countries (61% of the world population) abortions are legal.
In 97 countries (39% of the world population) abortions are illegal.
There are approximately 46 million abortions conducted eacy year, 20 million of them obtained illegally.
There are approximately 126,000 abortions conducted each day.

Abortion Statistics - U.S.

Approximately 1,370,000 abortions occur annually in the U.S. according to the Alan Guttmacher Institute.

In 2001, 1.31 million abortions took place.
88% of abortions occur during the first 6 to 12 weeks of pregnancy.
60% of abortions are performed on women who already have one or more children.
47% of abortions are performed on women who have already had one or more abortions.
43% of women will have had at least one abortion by the time they are 45 years old.
Abortion Statistics - Demographics
Age - The majority of women getting an abortion are young. 52% are younger than 25 years old and 19% are teenagers. The abortion rate is highest for those women aged 18 to 19 (56 per 1,000 in 1992.)
Marriage - 51% of women who are unmarried when they become pregnant will receive an abortion. Unmarried women are 6 times more likely than married women to have an abortion. 67% of abortions are from women who have never been married.
Race - 63% of abortion patients are white, however, black women are more than 3 times as likely to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are 2.5 times as likely.
Religion - 43% of women getting an abortion claimed they were Protestant, while 27% claimed they were Catholic.

Abortion Statistics - Decisions to Have an Abortion (U.S.)

25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone childbearing.
21.3% of women cannot afford a baby.
14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not want a child.
12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the pregnancy.)
10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career.
7.9% of women want no (more) children.
3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health.
2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal health.

Abortion Statistics - Using Contraception (U.S.)

54% of women having an abortion said they used some form of contraception during the month they became pregnant.
90% of women who are at risk for unplanned pregnancies are using contraception
8% of women having an abortion say they have never used contraception.
It is possible that up to 43% of the decline in abortion from 1994-2000 can be attributed to using emergency contraception.

Abortion Statistics - Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice

According to a USA Today, CNN Gallup Poll in May, 1999 - 16% of Americans believe abortion should be legal for any reason at any time during pregnancy and 55% of American believe abortion should be legal only to save the life of the mother or in cases of rape or incest.
According to a Gallup Poll in January, 2001 - People who considered themselves to be pro-life rose from 33% to 43% in the past 5 years, and people who considered themselves to be pro-choice declined from 56% to 48%.
The majority of these statistics were taken from The Alan Guttmacher Institute.

Originally posted by Venus
Abortion Statistics - Decisions to Have an Abortion (U.S.)

25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone childbearing.
21.3% of women cannot afford a baby.
14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not want a child.
12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the pregnancy.)
10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career.
7.9% of women want no (more) children.
3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health.
2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal health.

These are discusting results. As far as I am concerned, 6.1% of abortions have non-stupid reasons.

BUT, there is hope. Pro-lifers are on the rebound, that is truely awesome news.

Although we can not change the whole world, we can change America.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro

Originally posted by Venus
Abortion Statistics - Decisions to Have an Abortion (U.S.)

25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone childbearing.
21.3% of women cannot afford a baby.
14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not want a child.
12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the pregnancy.)
10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career.
7.9% of women want no (more) children.
3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health.
2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal health.

These are discusting results. As far as I am concerned, 6.1% of abortions have non-stupid reasons.

BUT, there is hope. Pro-lifers are on the rebound, that is truely awesome news.

Although we can not change the whole world, we can change America.

I actually agree with your disgust. These results were a little shocking. Although what I came away with was a reality check. More then half of all unmarried women chose to abort. To me that reinforces the need to keep the procedure available.

Originally posted by Venus
I actually agree with your disgust. These results were a little shocking. Although what I came away with was a reality check. More then half of all unmarried women chose to abort. To me that reinforces the need to keep the procedure available.

Agree with the discust? Good, I am glad to hear that.

Although perhaps we should teach our kids that people need healthy strong relationships before sleeping with them.

I would say that abstinance should be taught more, and promoted more, but I think that's a pipe dream.

Men just want to get their nut more often than not, and young women don't know much better.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro

Originally posted by Venus
I actually agree with your disgust. These results were a little shocking. Although what I came away with was a reality check. More then half of all unmarried women chose to abort. To me that reinforces the need to keep the procedure available.

Agree with the discust? Good, I am glad to hear that.

Although perhaps we should teach our kids that people need healthy strong relationships before sleeping with them.

I would say that abstinance should be taught more, and promoted more, but I think that's a pipe dream.

Men just want to get their nut more often than not, and young women don't know much better.

WOW....we're on a roll today, buddy! I once again, agree with you....especially the part about the pipe dream. LOL

Originally posted by Venus
WOW....we're on a roll today, buddy! I once again, agree with you....especially the part about the pipe dream. LOL

AHHHH, WE ARE AGREEING TOO MUCH. ERROR ERROR ERROR.

I had something to add to it, but was just changing my avatar. So...

Being that personal responcibility is the goal (as we agreed upon above), that we should not offer easy solutions because people can not control themselves.

Sex should be for marriage (although most married women would agree, and married men would grumble about it being unfair) and strong relationships.

If that is true, then why would we need abortion in the first place. We wouldn't. Abortion is becoming more and more used. But ask yourself why?

Well, I'll tell you. With the decline in lifelong marriages and commited relationships, people are moving from dealing with problems and working hard, to do what you want and take the easy way out.

Marriage too hard? Get a divorce.
Reading too tough? Turn on the TV and turn off brain
Learning sucks? Be a waitress, I hear there are awesome retirement benifits for lifelong waitresses
You a man? Got your nut off but made a baby? Just run away, the state takes too damn long and is ineffective. YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH IT!
You a woman? Got your sex on but made a baby? Have an abortion. No fuss no muss.

We are becoming a drive through country where things are wanted easy and fast. Does this not fit right in with the Abortion generation?

Originally posted by KrazyJethro

Being that personal responcibility is the goal (as we agreed upon above), that we should not offer easy solutions because people can not control themselves.

Sex should be for marriage (although most married women would agree, and married men would grumble about it being unfair) and strong relationships.

If that is true, then why would we need abortion in the first place. We wouldn't. Abortion is becoming more and more used. But ask yourself why?

Well, I'll tell you. With the decline in lifelong marriages and commited relationships, people are moving from dealing with problems and working hard, to do what you want and take the easy way out.

Marriage too hard? Get a divorce.
Reading too tough? Turn on the TV and turn off brain
Learning sucks? Be a waitress, I hear there are awesome retirement benifits for lifelong waitresses
You a man? Got your nut off but made a baby? Just run away, the state takes too damn long and is ineffective. YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH IT!
You a woman? Got your sex on but made a baby? Have an abortion. No fuss no muss.

We are becoming a drive through country where things are wanted easy and fast. Does this not fit right in with the Abortion generation?

OK....I knew it was too good to last

"Have an abortion...No fuss no muss"

"Learning sucks? Be a waitress, I hear there are awesome retirement benifits for lifelong waitresses"

"Sex should be for marriage (although most married women would agree, and married men would grumble about it being unfair) and strong relationships."


Any chance you'd care to reword any of the above?

Originally posted by Venus

Any chance you'd care to reword any of the above?

Why? They sound fine to me. The sarcastic tone I think in sometimes really brings em to life.