Is motherhood a form of oppression?, page 1

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Topic started on 21-3-2010 @ 07:52 PM by Muckster

women.timesonline.co.uk...

When i first see this title, featured in an article by Adam Sage for the Times, i couldn’t believe it...

Elisabeth Badinter is a French writer who has published a bestselling book in France which is, in my opinion, basically advocating bad mothering techniques...

She advocates a return to the old French model, which involved whatever necessary — powdered milk, baby minders, nurseries, you name it — to prevent les enfants from taking over their mothers’ lives.

It appears that the basic message in her book is that all the things that you think are beneficial to your baby, like breast feeding, organic food, raising the child yourself etc... has somehow acted to enslave women to their children. That the culture of a mother having a duty of care to her infant is somehow a conspiracy to oppress women!!!

Now i can actually see some logic in her argument... i know plenty of women who, after having their first child, felt immense pressure to be the "perfect mum"

I blame this partly on the profit making baby companies who subconsciously make you feel like a child abuser if you spend less than two grand on a pram or do not dress your 2 month old baby in designer clothes!!!

But why not simply suggest that women do what they can but to not push themselves beyond reasonable expectations and their own limits? Why not just offer some sensible advice instead of this hardnosed bravado?

Instead she seems to have gone in the complete opposite direction and suggested that women should do what they want when they want, without worrying too much about their baby...

Stick it in childcare, feed it powdered milk, smoke during pregnancy, and allow others to raise your child, anything, to get yourself back down the wine bar with your friends after the birth!!!

To me her message comes across as selfish and possibly her way of trying to justify her own guilt for being a poor mother herself!!!

Women and Men, when having a baby, take on the biggest responsibility any human being can take on!

You are bringing a new life into the world... it IS your duty to ensure that the child has the best possible start in life and this includes everything from diet to discipline.

Of course there have been times when i have been at my daughter’s school, watching the endless rehearsals of a bunch of, out of tune tone deaf, 10 year olds with part of me wishing i was out with my friends. But my presence has a positive impact on my daughter’s well being...
I can tell, just by the way her face lights up, when i tell her she is getting better each week!
As a father how can i deny my daughter this? I know it wouldn’t kill her if i wasn’t there... but i also know that simply being there gives my daughter support and the feeling of being loved and appreciated!

Elisabeth Badinter is basically stating that raising a baby is too much hard work... well here is an idea Elisabeth... DONT BLOODY HAVE ONE!!!

I am interested to hear other people’s thoughts on this... especially any recent mothers or fathers!

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 07:57 PM by FortAnthem

Great commentary on the article OP. S&F!

As for the idiot woman who wrote the article, I just had to break this out:

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 08:00 PM by Greenize

What an idiot!! My children are grown now, but I can tell you that being a mother was and is the best experience in my life!! I was fortunate enough to not have to work when they were little. They were with me every minute of everyday and I would have had it no other way!! I wouldn't treat my dogs the way she is advocating doing ones children!!!

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 08:04 PM by Muckster

reply to post by FortAnthem

Thanks FortAnthem

reply to post by Greenize

I wouldn't treat my dogs the way she is advocating doing ones children

I completely agree!!! How this book of hers has turned into a best seller has amazed me and is also what prompted my OP... I thought that maybe it was just me that thought this way... Thanks for the input

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 08:09 PM by halfoldman

reply to post by Muckster

Great post!
I must still read the whole article, but the OP point is not limited to this, neither are the points new.
Some feminists have always pointed out that pregnancy is parasitic, and the female gender pays a huge physical and mental price for the procreation of the species.
From that biological perspective simply becoming a mother is oppressive, even life-endangering to the self.

I hope they find a way for men to become pregnant soon - it's our right as men. Then "motherhood" will not be uniquely oppressive to women.

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 08:13 PM by Logarock

Its a best seller becouse just a lot of women are out to lunch these days. This is just more sick sh#t from our era of mad mad madness.

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 08:17 PM by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by Muckster

But why not simply suggest that women do what they can but to not push themselves beyond reasonable expectations and their own limits? Why not just offer some sensible advice instead of this hardnosed bravado?

Or, why not just advocate bearing children and leaving them with their fathers and running off.

Just kidding. Kind of.

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 08:19 PM by Greenize

This type of thinking is part of the reason that we have hoodlums running the streets and schools with no respect whatsoever for anything or anyone! Children need love, they need discipline and rules. I too am shocked that this book is anything other than toilet fodder! It doesn't take a freakin' village either! It takes responsible people that are willing to sacrifice the time and effort it takes to ensure that they raise well rounded and responsible adults!

I am not bashing mothers that have to use daycare because they work for a living, just want to make that clear!!

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 08:21 PM by john124

Hahaha what a load of rubbish that gives women more excuses to not use contraception and then have abortions.

Women are as responsible as the man in a relationship when it comes to making babies, and carrying the child is what their bodies are suited for, they have all of the internal and external organs for the job.

I can imagine feminists complaining why men can't get pregnant instead, but rather than witter on about it all, just accept that's how nature decided was the best approach.

And women could take precautions or refrain from the actions to ensure they don't get pregnant if they don't want a child. And the naivety of "OMG, I'm pregnant!!!", when they've been shagging like a bunny rabbit without contraception is really quite silly, and they always blame the man entirely for it.

[edit on 21-3-2010 by john124]

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 08:23 PM by Iamonlyhuman

It looks to me that she is justifying herself by advocating that women should be like her. I am so sick of people telling me how I should parent and how I should think about parenting issues. She is doing exactly what she is advocating against. But, I guess some women need to be given permission.

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 08:27 PM by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by Greenize
This type of thinking is part of the reason that we have hoodlums running the streets and schools with no respect whatsoever for anything or anyone!

You are absolutely right. I apologize. Its much better to just not have them at all, and then you dont have to go through the whole swelling and birthing process either. Plus as you point out, then we dont have the hoodlum problem.

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 08:35 PM by Lookingup

I don't have kids, didn't ever want kids, and don't understand people who do want them, BUT I think if you are going to have one, you need to take care of it to the best of your ability. A baby is totally dependent on another for it's care, so you shouldn't expect to have one and have it fit into your lifestyle. You will need to fit into Baby's lifestyle. Ms. Badinter calls Baby a little "oppressor?" If someone thinks like that, why would they have a baby in the first place? Leave that job to the women who truly want a baby, not an accessory.

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 08:35 PM by gallopinghordes

I've never once felt oppressed because I'm a mother. It's the best job I've ever had. It is work to be a parent; and yes I had to work so there was no option but daycare; however, you can bet I made sure it was the best I could find.

If someone feels like that then they shouldn't be a parent. Parenting is hard work and once the decision is made it's a lifetime job. The rewards however, are far beyond money. I can't imagine not being a Mom it's so much a part of me now.

It's beyond my comprehension how this book is selling any copies let alone becoming a bestseller. Absolute garbage to my mind.

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 08:38 PM by Greenize

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

I never said don't have them. I do however believe that it is the parents responsibility to raise their children, to love, nurture, discipline and guide them in what is right. Not to pawn them off every chance they get so that they don't have to be bothered! Being a parent has been the hardest and at the same time most rewarding thing that I have ever done! I wouldn't trade a minute of it and that includes the "whole swelling and birthing process"!

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 08:41 PM by KyleOrtonArmy

Biologically, men are here to plant the seed and women are here to care for it.

I'm not saying...I'm just saying...biologically...hope that's PC enough for ya.

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 08:45 PM by shagreen heart

i'm about to piss some women off (and if i piss any dudes off it's because they use feminism to get in girl's pants), but i don't give two shjts. i hate this whole hyper-independent woman trend that's going on. men and women have vital roles that we still have to fulfil, i don't care if you believe in gender or not, we have two genders for a reason. this doesn't mean women need to be on lockdown and do what their told, but it also doesn't mean that they are above having children because it's not cool and SUCH a hassle, or that they are so full of this feminist propoganda BS that they have to ignore THEIR OWN kid to go out and party and be their awesome old self!! think about your ******* family. anyone who doesn't want children or a family isn't independent at all, they are dependent, and need others to still take care of them because it's soooo hard to juggle your work, social life, and child's well being, because you're the FIRST person on this planet to deal with it.

all it is is the sick refusal to grow up from the spoiled brat you always were, and one of these moron girls hears from someone some parroted lines about feminism, and it's a great excuse to be a complete POS to society. no, you're right. people like you shouldn't procreate, we don't need your crusty nose little sociopaths running around to become just like you because you neglected them and had people to hook up with or get drunk with.

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 08:55 PM by Greenize

reply to post by shagreen heart

I agree with you!
Here recently, a woman dropped her small child off at a local fast food place, one of those with the indoor play area. She took her child in told it she would be back later and left. She had errands to run and didn't want to be bothered! This is the kind of thing that I talking about. It makes me angry! What kind of mother does that? I was even more shocked later to learn from someone who worked there previously that it happens all the time! There have been children left in locked cars in club parking lots while their parent or parents went partying! I can't imagine!

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 08:58 PM by john124

reply to post by gallopinghordes