IRS will be enforcing your purchase of Health Care Insurance!

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
The IRS will not be enforcing your purchase of Health Care...please stop the mis-information.

In fact...your own state will be enforcing your purchase of Health Care. The IRS will only get involved if your state reports you don't have Health Care Insurance and are subject to the TAX...and then the IRS will enforce the TAX...like they do with all taxes.

Your attempts at mis-leading people is sad...why not just stick with the facts?

Obama said several times that the fines were not a "tax. But thats what it is and some will willingly pay the fine rather than fork out for health care.

reply to post by jefwane


My God, oh how I wish your wish hit God's ears.

I actually hoped Obama would get elected. I have said this before, if McCain would have been elected, we would still be going down the same path of tyranny. But the Dems think they can do this without repercussions.

Now that both parties have been exposed as the RATS that they are, MAYBE, just maybe the People will wake up.

Thanks for your comment. I love it when people see the truth.

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
reply to post by Ionized


So, basically, right now, we are paying for freeloaders. That is causing health care and insurance to be incredibly expensive, and causing problems for EVERYONE.

Healthcare reform is an attempt to fix these age old problems.... anyone against healthcare reform is just scared and misinformed.

This will not solve that problem. In fact the dif is now that the IRS will be able to make money off all this in the form of a punitive tax which in this case looks like a regressive tax of sorts while the wealther will pay less or not tax but higher rates of insurance.

You got to hand it to those silmy #.

reply to post by Jakes51


Thank Janks, I will just leave this for people to go back to your comment and see the points you made.

Thanks for your comment.

reply to post by Logarock


EXACTLY, when did people start thinking that anything the government enforces was not a tax?

Fees, licenses, tariffs, dues etc etc etc are TAXES people. Especially mandates to purchase something.

Government controlled entities are GOVERNMENT entities!

As I was watching most of the day as this has gone on. They said in Congress today that 16,500 new IRS agents will be hired as soon as the Bill is signed into law. They also said that there is a mandate for the Insurance companies, once a month, report on who has and does not have insurance. This part will start right away as well.

If you have a month without, they will be looking for you. Plain and simple.
They want more money and you will not get sh!t in the end for it.
Look at the last 10 years, where did all that money go?
How is it that they need 100's times more and the cost of things has not gone up that much? What do they know?
What are they doing with it?
I will not be playing their games anymore.

reply to post by endisnighe


Wait till people find out, under a mandated system, when they call the state bureau that handles complaints that the bureau-rats side with the insurance company every time. Especailly in this country that treats its citizens like crap anyway.

The mandate to have adequate health insurance is pinned as a "tax penalty" as the language in the bill suggests. I think that's how they are trying to get away with doing it, and the reason for the IRS to be involved. However, I still wouldn't consider it constitutional.

The constitution doesn't give any specific authority to mandate the purchase of anything, respectively leaving such a power to "the individual states or the people" by way of the 10th amendment. The 16th amendment, however, creates a toss up by giving more power of taxation to the government (This is where income tax is derived from). By using taxes as the penalty for not having adequate coverage, it could be argued that they have the power via the 16th amendment.

However, this type of "loophole" searching should be blocked by other checks. First, any true representative should see the utter infringement on individual liberty and vote no. Second, the president should see the same thing and veto. And if I were a justice in the Supreme court I wouldn't be able to help but to classify the coverage mandate as a Bill of Attainder which is specifically prohibited by Article I section 9 of the constitution. It certainly looks like the legislature is declaring a group of persons guilty of a "crime" without the benefit of a trial.

Anyhow, props to Virginia and Idaho for preparing to stand up against this encroachment on liberty and the 35 other states that are thinking about doing the same. While there are many reasons this healthcare bill should be stopped, It should only take one to stop it. My wonder is: how it will still be passed and signed into law...

reply to post by Logarock


Besides that, guess what people. Not you. This is something that I want people to realize.

If you get messed up by government controlled health care, you CANNOT SUE!

Think about it, can you sue other entities of government?

WELL?

If a company is MANDATED to provide something by the government, does this NOT fall under government jurisdiction?

Thanks for helping me see another problem with this.

DUDE!

Originally posted by j2000
They said in Congress today that 16,500 new IRS agents will be hired as soon as the Bill is signed into law.....
.....Look at the last 10 years, where did all that money go?
How is it that they need 100's times more and the cost of things has not gone up that much? What do they know?
What are they doing with it?
I will not be playing their games anymore.

Another benchmark on the road to slavery.

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

Holy crappola JPZ, glad to see you back.

Alright, I have been doing a LOT of law research lately.

I am declaring sovereignty. I am done with this government that has destroyed my freedom in pursuits of their control. Even if I get thrown in prison, I will still declare my freedom, maybe it could inspire others. I have no qualms about my attitude. Life is but a test of our souls.

Glad to see you back.

Thanks for your kind welcome End. Reading this thread I picked up on your due diligence in regards to the law and your subtle reference to Brushaber and Stanton was impressive indeed.

We are all sovereign and your open and public declaration of it is not a crime! I understand your frustration my brother, but this government you wish to be done with is OUR government, meaning yours, mine, WTFover's, OutKatstSearcher's, Someone's and everyone else in the United States.

There are many battles ahead that must be fought, but do not despair and do not give up on US. As you have stated, more and more people will be disconnecting from the system. The system is not US. We are not the system, we are the government. Systems are merely the interactions between bodies that constitute a unified whole. A government relies upon systems, but it is not a one size fits all system that works, and several systems are necessary in order to have a healthy and effective government.

By healthy I mean to say a government fully capable of doing what it has been mandated to do. The United States federal government has been mandated to do certain things by Constitution, and each state the same. Most state Constitutions are remarkably similar to the federal Constitution for the United States of America in that they all stress the sovereign and natural rights of individuals.

Disconnect from this current system of surrendered rights in exchange for privilege, declare sovereignty openly and proudly, and do not be done with this government End, be just beginning! Take a page from our good brother Wukky and rely upon that Constitution you so admire and use it as the tool necessary to reign in that wild and obnoxious beast known as government. Ride the White Pony don't walk away from it! Tame the beast and use that beast to your benefit, and never ever ever feed the beast more than absolutely necessary!

I know you know this brother, I just thought I would remind you that disconnecting from this horrid system doesn't mean you have to walk away from YOUR government, from MY government, from OutKasts, from S.G., from Wuk's, from WTFover's, from OUR government. Keep fighting the good fight and keep putting out the necessary information that will help us in our CAUSE. Be Cause! Don't walk away, take control. Good to see you.

reply to post by Dienekes


See, this is WHY they are giving the IRS control.

There has been TWO Supreme Court decisions that have stated that the 16th Amendment gave the federal government NO new taxation privelages.

So, you have an entity that is controlled by the FEDERAL RESERVE system-the IRS-that is enforcing a PRIVATE force of laws, that HAVE NO Constitutional authority to do any DAMN thing.

I am sorry folks. We are slaves to people that actually have NO authority over us. What the HELL is a matter with us?

Originally posted by Dienekes

Anyhow, props to Virginia and Idaho for preparing to stand up against this encroachment on liberty and the 35 other states that are thinking about doing the same. While there are many reasons this healthcare bill should be stopped, It should only take one to stop it. My wonder is: how it will still be passed and signed into law...

Well when this crap hits the fan the FG will try to hold states hostage by holding back federal funds for.... you name it.

Again the people will be cought between the FG and thier own states in the sell out. The people will become mere cattle in a range war.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Hey Jean Paul, good to see you again! It's been much too long.

Inspiring words there. What you say about following Wukky's example is true... perhaps if more of us like minded individuals start working on a local level, we can impact the greater system. The cards are stacked against us, but if people can stand together, cast aside their petty differences and work for the one thing that really matters - taking back what is really ours - just maybe we could win.

As I said a few pages back, I won't have anything to do with this reform. They can send the IRS after, they can do whatever. I won't have anything to do with this.

reply to post by endisnighe


KNOW THE ACTUAL LAW. YOU are not a "person" which is how they define it in the bill. If you filled out your Census, guess what, they will be targeting you. I sent my Census back and told them I could not fill it out as I was NOT a "resident' nor was I a "person", they are trying to get "Subject Matter Jurisdiction", and most people GAVE IT TO THEM!! NO Contract, no problem. You are a sojourner and a transient, an INHABITANT, not a "resident".

Why don't people pull their heads out and pay attention, the federal government CAN NOT pass legislation for the Sovereign people. They can only pass legislation dealing with foreign COMMERCIAL affairs.

When will people wake up? SAY NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


[edit on 21-3-2010 by daddio]

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

Holy crappola JPZ, glad to see you back.

Alright, I have been doing a LOT of law research lately.

I am declaring sovereignty. I am done with this government that has destroyed my freedom in pursuits of their control. Even if I get thrown in prison, I will still declare my freedom, maybe it could inspire others. I have no qualms about my attitude. Life is but a test of our souls.

Glad to see you back.

We are all sovereign and your open and public declaration of it is not a crime! I understand your frustration my brother, but this government you wish to be done with is OUR government, meaning yours, mine, WTFover's, OutKatstSearcher's, Someone's and everyone else in the United States.

There is the p[roblem, WE DO NOT LIVE IN THE U.S. WE live in the U.S.A. or in other words AMERICA!!

I really do like your posts but people NEED to understand the magic language. NEVER refer to yourself as being a U.S. citizen and NEVER refer to living in the U.S. You live in America or the State in which you INHABIT!!

The Zip Code is what has duped us. NEVER use a Zip code, it's not needed.

Use of the Zip is voluntary. See Domestic Regulations. Section 122.32 as amended. You should also know that the Postal service cannot discriminate against the non-use of the Zip Code. See "Postal Reorganization Act ", Section 403, (Public Law, 91-375). The federal government utilizes the ZIP code to prove that you reside in a “federal district of the District of Columbia”. This is why the IRS and other government agencies (state and federal) require a Zip code when they assert jurisdiction by sending you a letter. They claim that this speeds the mail, but this is a sly and subtle TRICK. It is also prima facie evidence that you are a subject of Congress and a "citizen of the District of Columbia " who is "resident " in one of the several states.

The receipt of mail with a ZIP code is one of the requirements for the IRS to have jurisdiction to send you notices. The government cannot bill a Citizen of Texas, because he is not within the purview of the MUNICIPAL LAWS of the District of Columbia. In fact, the Internal Revenue Service has adopted the ZIP code areas as Internal Revenue Districts. See the Federal Register, Volume 51, Number 53, Wednesday March 19, 1986.

You must remember that the Postal Service is a private corporation, a quasi-government agency. It is no longer a full government agency. It is like the Federal Reserve System, the Internal Revenue Service, and the United States and the United States Marshall Service. They are all outside the restrictions of the Federal Constitution, as private corporations. They are all powerful in their respective areas of responsibility, to enforce collection for the federal debt. So, if you are using a ZIP code, you are in effect saying openly and notoriously that you do not live in the State of Texas, etc, but instead are a resident in the Texas area of the District of Columbia (a federal district). There are some so-called Patriot groups that I consider Patriots for money. They advocate the use of Title 42 suits (which are for federal citizens only), send mail to you with a ZIP code, and ask you to do things that place you within the municipal jurisdiction of the District of Columbia.

Originally posted by Someone336
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

Hey Jean Paul, good to see you again! It's been much too long.

Inspiring words there. What you say about following Wukky's example is true... perhaps if more of us like minded individuals start working on a local level, we can impact the greater system. The cards are stacked against us, but if people can stand together, cast aside their petty differences and work for the one thing that really matters - taking back what is really ours - just maybe we could win.

As I said a few pages back, I won't have anything to do with this reform. They can send the IRS after, they can do whatever. I won't have anything to do with this.

It has been way too long and it is good to see you as well Someone!

What has occurred to me in regards to this HCR legislation is that by delegating the collections of fines for lack of insurance to the IRS means indeed a tax is being imposed and if it is the IRS collecting that tax the only jurisdiction they have is over Taxpayers which comes with a specific definition in the Internal Revenue Code.

More and more people are discovering that it is unclear and far to ambiguous to determine how they became a taxpayer to begin with, and for those who are employed by others, the ambiguity becomes even greater as there is no clear statute that explains what the subject of the tax is, and who specifically is liable.

This ambiguity leads to determinations, where the IRS hopes to expand the scope of their jurisdiction then it has been determined that these ambiguities mean that all people who earn income are "liable for" a tax and "subject to" the revenue laws. But, being as ambiguous as the IRC is, any determination that all people who earn income are liable for this so called "income tax", must be supported with credible evidence.

There is scant evidence to support the determination that all people who earn income are liable for an "income tax" and subject to the "personal income tax laws". So, what makes them a taxpayer then? Well, signature on Form W-4's and filing valid tax returns is prima facie evidence that the signer is liable for the tax and subject to the law. If there is some sort of evidence outside of ones own signature, (in effect admitting liability), then let the government show this evidence and let them prove on record that indeed all people who earn income are subject to the IRC and fall under the jurisdiction of the IRS.

This is the one size fits all system I was referring to. Most people are ignorant of the law and so when an employer demands of an employee that he or she sign a Form W-4 and supply a Social Security number, most people are unaware of the fact that no law forces any person to sign a form W-4 or obtain a Social Security number. Ignorance of the law is the system for the one size fits all crowd.

More and more, those presumed to know the law will come to know the law and then, when the IRS attempts to collect a "fine" for lack of health insurance, their jurisdiction will be challenged and the system they so rely upon will begin to crumble, and indeed, it is crumbling now, most people just can't see it.

reply to post by daddio


daddio, you will be required in about a week.

I have been researching sovereignty since I joined.

I will be sending my declaration on April 15th. Kind of symbolic.

Now many may think this is stupid or ignorant.

I am going to use Constitutional Law and arguments to remove myself. It is all there in black and white. If one only reads the meaning behind the words. It is almost obvious this is the path we must take.

Thanks for your earlier links, I have read them extensively. Still absorbing.

But the one thing I see is that we HAVE to declare the sovereignty. Otherwise we are NOT using the law to protect ourselves. I will get into that further on the declaration. If you know what I mean, you can U2U me.

Peace.

Originally posted by daddio
Use of the Zip is voluntary. See Domestic Regulations. Section 122.32 as amended. You should also know that the Postal service cannot discriminate against the non-use of the Zip Code. See "Postal Reorganization Act ", Section 403, (Public Law, 91-375). The federal government utilizes the ZIP code to prove that you reside in a “federal district of the District of Columbia”. This is why the IRS and other government agencies (state and federal) require a Zip code when they assert jurisdiction by sending you a letter. They claim that this speeds the mail, but this is a sly and subtle TRICK. It is also prima facie evidence that you are a subject of Congress and a "citizen of the District of Columbia " who is "resident " in one of the several states.

The receipt of mail with a ZIP code is one of the requirements for the IRS to have jurisdiction to send you notices. The government cannot bill a Citizen of Texas, because he is not within the purview of the MUNICIPAL LAWS of the District of Columbia. In fact, the Internal Revenue Service has adopted the ZIP code areas as Internal Revenue Districts. See the Federal Register, Volume 51, Number 53, Wednesday March 19, 1986.

You must remember that the Postal Service is a private corporation, a quasi-government agency. It is no longer a full government agency. It is like the Federal Reserve System, the Internal Revenue Service, and the United States and the United States Marshall Service. They are all outside the restrictions of the Federal Constitution, as private corporations. They are all powerful in their respective areas of responsibility, to enforce collection for the federal debt. So, if you are using a ZIP code, you are in effect saying openly and notoriously that you do not live in the State of Texas, etc, but instead are a resident in the Texas area of the District of Columbia (a federal district). There are some so-called Patriot groups that I consider Patriots for money. They advocate the use of Title 42 suits (which are for federal citizens only), send mail to you with a ZIP code, and ask you to do things that place you within the municipal jurisdiction of the District of Columbia.

Could i have the source for this information please? If true, this is some quite interesting info

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Originally posted by Someone336
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

Hey Jean Paul, good to see you again! It's been much too long.


As I said a few pages back, I won't have anything to do with this reform. They can send the IRS after, they can do whatever. I won't have anything to do with this.

More and more, those presumed to know the law will come to know the law and then, when the IRS attempts to collect a "fine" for lack of health insurance, their jurisdiction will be challenged and the system they so rely upon will begin to crumble, and indeed, it is crumbling now, most people just can't see it.

This has been going on for decades, people making this claim. We had a big move in the 70s. The IRS just comes in and make exsamples out of dissenters.

And they dont have to collect the fine.....they will simply deduct it from your tax return. Thus the key here is that it will be easy for folks to just pay the fine rather than buy insurance. This is where these folks that devised this scam are very clever.

And they may be getting double the tax when they fine your employer for not carring insurance as well. What a cash cow this will be.

I am 20 years old, I was born at home, my parents paid for a midwife, i was never immunized, and i very seldom get sick, i never missed a day of school due to being sick.
I do not use health insurance, when i do get sick, i take real vitamins, or natural/ homeopathic remedies and rest, things that insurance do not cover, and i am well within 1-2 days naturally.
Doctors and hospitals use all of these synthetic drugs to over-medicate the population. There is a prescription for everything and if you look at the side effects of any of them there is a huge list usually much worse than what its medicating.
I will not use synthetic heroin zombie drugs or the doctors eager to prescribe them and i do not feel i should have to pay if i'm not using the service.