The Great Lie is John 3:16

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posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 



God forbids HUMANS from doing magic, even though that happens in the bible as well. God does all kinds of magic and it was HIS TREE.



You are correct, humans are forbidden to practice magic, Deuteronomy 18 v9-12

Why?

Supernatural "power" is either a hoax, or it comes from God, or Satan.


...and who planted that tree again?




posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 



God forbids HUMANS from doing magic, even though that happens in the bible as well. God does all kinds of magic and it was HIS TREE.



You are correct, humans are forbidden to practice magic, Deuteronomy 18 v9-12

Why?

Supernatural "power" is either a hoax, or it comes from God, or Satan.


Let me remind you what I said. It was GOD'S MAGIC TREE.

You said -

The tree wasn't magic. Magic is forbidden in the Bible.


Magic happens all over the bible, forbidden or not. Please try not to run in circles here.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 



...and who planted that tree again?


So you believe the story?



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 



Let me remind you what I said. It was GOD'S MAGIC TREE.


You said it was God's magic tree. The bible didn't call it magic. Magical powers come from Satan.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 



...and who planted that tree again?


So you believe the story?


If I do not believe the story then the logic of it does not matter any more?

Do not play games with me. Do not answer a logical question with some existential wannabe nonsense. Of course you know I do not believe the story. That does not change the fact that in the story, the tree is magic. If you have a legitimate point to make, do so.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 



Let me remind you what I said. It was GOD'S MAGIC TREE.


You said it was God's magic tree. The bible didn't call it magic. Magical powers come from Satan.


Huh? So Jesus healing the sick, raising the dead, etc. God creating EVERYTHING, that all came from Satan?



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by dusty1
 


It was a tree...

that bore apples...

that taught mankind right from wrong.

That does not sound magic to you? You have one of them trees?



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 



Huh? So Jesus healing the sick, raising the dead, etc. God creating EVERYTHING, that all came from Satan?


No. It came from God, which is consistent with my earlier post.

What do you think of witchcraft and sorcery?



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 



It was a tree...

that bore apples...

that taught mankind right from wrong.



Show me where it says "apples".



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 



Huh? So Jesus healing the sick, raising the dead, etc. God creating EVERYTHING, that all came from Satan?


No. It came from God, which is consistent with my earlier post.

What do you think of witchcraft and sorcery?


Consistent how? You said it was not magic and that only Satan does magic. I pointed out that God created everything which is pretty magic. I also pointed out that he gave his son magical powers. I also pointed out why I called the tree magical. So far everything you said is just a convoluted contradiction.

Not sure what you mean by what do I think. That is a very vague question.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 



It was a tree...

that bore apples...

that taught mankind right from wrong.



Show me where it says "apples".


LOL. You are going to pull that? After all that serpent nonsense? OK, FRUIT of SOME KIND.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


Like I said in an earlier post that you apparently didn't read.

Supernatural powers are either a hoax, come from God or come from Satan.

God's people should not use powers that come from Satan or demons.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 



Not sure what you mean by what do I think. That is a very vague question.


What I am wondering, is do you practice magic? Do you believe in magic or magical powers?



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


Like I said in an earlier post that you apparently didn't read.

Supernatural powers are either a hoax, come from God or come from Satan.

God's people should not use powers that come from Satan or demons.



To be honest, I am really trying but I am just getting more and more confused. You also said

Magical powers come from Satan.


So which is it? Do they come from just Satan or can God do magic too?



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by dusty1
 


You also said


The tree wasn't magic. Magic is forbidden in the Bible.


But there is magic in the bible, forbidden or not. Can you please explain whether or not you think God can do magic or just Satan and explain why a tree that teaches mankind what evil is is not magic, thanks.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 



Not sure what you mean by what do I think. That is a very vague question.


What I am wondering, is do you practice magic? Do you believe in magic or magical powers?


I think David Blaine is fun to watch. I enjoyed Copperfield as a kid very much. I love Penn & Teller when they are not trying to preach or be political. Real magic, no. I do not believe in magic tricks. That is one of my big problems with the bible. I know there are plenty of people like you that do believe in it so that is what brings me to a thread like this to ask why. I do not believe in magic so I would really love to understand what would make someone else.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 



But there is magic in the bible, forbidden or not. Can you please explain whether or not you think God can do magic or just Satan and explain why a tree that teaches mankind what evil is is not magic, thanks.


I see you want to lump it all together. The Bible differentiates between Magic and Gods power. Apparently you do not. It's like technology, you are either a Mac or a PC guy.

Is fire magic?

You tell a child not to put her hand in a fire or she will be burned. She does it anyway, and gets burned. She feels the effects, and learns a life lesson, she gained knowledge, but it came from her disobedience, and unfortunately she has to live with a scar.

The tree gave humans the knowledge of disobedience, sin and death. Thus we have the world we live in today.



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by dusty1
I see you want to lump it all together. The Bible differentiates between Magic and Gods power. Apparently you do not. It's like technology, you are either a Mac or a PC guy.

I do lump it all together. Watch this.

Is a Mac technology? YES.

Is a PC technology? YES.

See how that works?


Is fire magic?


No.



You tell a child not to put her hand in a fire or she will be burned. She does it anyway, and gets burned. She feels the effects, and learns a life lesson, she gained knowledge, but it came from her disobedience, and unfortunately she has to live with a scar.


o...k...


The tree gave humans the knowledge of disobedience, sin and death. Thus we have the world we live in today.


Not a good analogy. Burning her hand did not teach her not to sleep around. It did not teach her not to steal. It taught her not to touch that hot thing she just got burned by. This tree taught them that being naked was shameful. Please tell me you see a difference. Or is there a shame fruit I am unaware of?



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 



I love Penn & Teller when they are not trying to preach or be political.


I can finally agree with you on something. Hooray for ATS!!!



posted on Mar, 27 2010 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by dusty1
 


Glad we could find some common ground. I had faith it was possible.

Let me try and make this easy for you. A few people seemed to think that my questioning of the "serpent" being Satan was a petty argument over a word. My point was that I am reading it without my god glasses on and see no reason to believe it was Satan so I wanted to know why people assert that it is.

Now we are going back and forth over the word "magic."

Guess what. I have no problem tossing the word out. The only thing I was doing was differentiating between that tree and say any common oak tree in the garden. I was just delineating which tree we were talking about and the term I use for things that are miraculous is magic. If you do not like it, then fine. You call it any thing you want. That point is and was, that/ tree is the one I am talking about.

Ok?





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