The Great Lie is John 3:16

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

Nope. I read "serpent" over and over again and not one mention of it being Satan. That would be why I assume it was just a talking snake. I look forward to you educating me on this.

Just more willful ignorance.

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that SERPANT of old, who is THE DEVIL and SATAN, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished" (Revelation 20:1-3).

Sounds like his mouth gets sealed shut. Finally. That will most likely shut the rest of you up too.

Are you a skipping record? We have been over this about 10 times now.

Revelations is NOT Genesis. It is NOT the same serpent! There is nothing but your own wild imagination linking the two. They are not part of a series. They are TWO SEPARATE BOOKS. If you want to prove that the serpent in Genesis was Satan, you are going to have to show me something in GENESIS that says it.

Why is this not getting through? We have had the same argument over and over.

I got it. You think a quote from Revelations refers to something in a completely different book. You have failed repeatedly to back that up with anything. All you have is the word "serpent" being used again but you know that it is used elsewhere in the bible to also describe.......snakes!

It is nice to cherry pick but you are not proving anything. If the snake in Genesis is Satan, then show me the quotes from Genesis that say so.

Originally posted by without_prejudice
Can you quote some scripture to back up this idea that the Garden of Eden "was supposed to be void of all evil?" Or is this just something you derived by logic from the story? Just curious...

Huh? I guess I have to say this is something I derived by logic from the story. I guess I will let you read that over again a few times and see if maybe you did not mean something else.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


Let me try it this way.

Exodus 4:1-5 And Moses answered and said, But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice: for they will say, The Lord hath not appeared unto thee. An the Lord said unto him, What is that in thine hand? And he said, A rod. And he said, Cast it on the ground. And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent;

Was that serpent also Satan?

Numbers 21:3-9 And the Lord hearkened to the voice of Israel, and delivered up the Canaanites; and they utterly destroyed them and their cities: and he called the name of the place Hormah. And they journeyed from mount Hor by the way of the Red Sea, to compass the land of Edom: and the soul of the people was much discouraged because of the way. And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. And the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people, and much people of Israel died.

Were all of those serpents also Satan? The Lord sent them down afterall.

Mark 16: 15-18 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

So my question is...why should I believe that your quote from revelations is referring to the "serpent" in question any more than any of these other quotes?

oops double post

[edit on 24-3-2010 by undo]

Alot of what I have posted in this and other threads, is not for the benefit of
traditional christianity, although it does tend to support it in a fashion some are uncomfortable with. It's for the benefit of those who latch onto words and phrases, advanced by people who deliberately mischaracterize the ancient writings of ALL THE ANCIENT PEOPLE, NOT JUST THE HEBREW TEXTS.

Before ANYONE else posts another ridiculous mischaracterization of the serpent in the garden, i'm pleading with you to CEASE and DESIST. the text is not talking about a snake. The original words tell you the serpent was not a snake. If you insist on continuing to mischaracterize it in this fashion, you will be playing into the disinformation from BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE. If you want to know, learn, if you don't want to know, leave it be because you're just inflaming the believers to greater heights of defense of a subject that is already mischaracterize in the mainstream traditional beliefs as well as the world of atheism that only respects itself and nothing else.

reply to post by undo


That is simply your opinion. I am reading the actual text and it says "serpent" and nothing else. Quote from any other book you like to back up your opinion but you cannot show me that I am wrong. I have been asking for a long time. If you really wanted me to shut up and knew I was wrong, you would have posted the text I need to read by now. You have not. No one has. If you and others want to continue to label me as disinfo because I do not agree with your opinion then I am going to spend just as much effort defending it. How about you cease and desist telling me that I am wrong since you cannot back it up with anything and move on?

reply to post by K J Gunderson


the first serpent you mention is undoubtedly a snake.
the second serpent you mention is a seraph, singular for seraphim which is a race of angels. in the example, they are being used to describe 2 different things because they share the common appearance of scaley skin.

the usage of the word to apply to things with scaley skin, is a form of generalization, similar to our use of words to characterize something that is alike in some way to something else. for example, "black people" is not a definitive defintion of the people of africa, however, it does apply in a generalized sense, to their appearance. other things that are called black because of their dark appearance does not mean they are black people, just that they share a common color (black) with black skinned people.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


it ties back in to my post about the first 'adam race, created in the image of the gods. they are red or ruddy and shining. another example used is fiery or coppery, shining, brazen. these words all define in this instance, the color of scaley skinned beings, who are shining and coppery red in color. they are seraphim, the angelic race that predated the human species, who were the pre-black sea flood egyptians. cloned in the image of the gods. i point you back to revelation 12 and the great red dragon, which is at least a triple metaphor.

the trails are all over history! i mean open your eyes for gosh sakes.



[edit on 24-3-2010 by undo]

Here, read this:

The Nachash and His Seed:
Some Explanatory Notes on Why the “Serpent”
in Genesis 3 Wasn’t a Serpent

www.thedivinecouncil.com...

oh and one more thing on that topic:

this vase was found in abydos, egypt, the founding place of pre-dynastic egypt.
what do you see?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/6e77301ac273a7c4.jpg[/atsimg]

color them all red skinned and there you have both 'adams, the seraphim, with perhaps a few hybrids as well.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by undo]

I suggest to read:
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

reply to post by nomorecruelty

I see. So god was in his right to punish two people who had no knowledge of good and evil whatsoever, who were not familiar with death and could by no means comprehend what their disobedience meant? And not only were they punished but every human since them? Nothing in this strikes you as amazingly unfair and even sadistic? You would kick your toddler out then after having eaten the forbidden cookie?

Very good point. When I was a kid my father grew a few plants he did not want me to touch. He had his own bathroom off his bedroom and kept them growing locked up in there. God couldn't have used another place to stick his damn trees?

He could ofcourse, after all, he is omnipotent, right? But since he is also all-knowing, he knew Adam and Eve were going to eat the darn fruit. So it seems to me it was carefully planned. Adam and Eve were doomed from the start. But this is just a thought from this little Pagan, facing eternal damnation. Who am I to know?

[edit on 24-3-2010 by Gwynniver]

Sounds like his mouth gets sealed shut. Finally. That will most likely shut the rest of you up too.

Unfortunately for you many of us will be around untill then.

reply to post by Gwynniver


obviously it doesn't make sense. that's because the mainstream interpretation and english translation of the data, doth sucketh.

reply to post by undo
If that is in fact the case, then how can the bible have ANY validity?

reply to post by Gwynniver


because the data is still there. you just have to want to understand it. and you can't treat it like the mainsteam does. you have to let it tell you what it means, not what someone else says it means. and the only way to do that is thru honest research, devoid of any prior assumptions. think of it like the text of a people you have never read or heard about before, because for alot of us, that's essentially what it is. read the writings of their contemporaries and forerunners. look at the artifacts that come from the area. follow the bread crumb trail.

we are so pre-programmed to translate the symbols in a specific way that we are left almost totally in the dark about what it is actually saying.

NO Guessing here....

This is The Format for a Blue Serahim from the New City... New Jerusalem.

These are of the Highest Order of the Angels. (Largest angelic Form.)

The Old Seraphim were of the Hexagonal format having 6 Wings...

The Seraphim of The New Jerusalem are of The Octagonal Format having 4 Wings.... But have 2 Sets of Wings giving a Total of 8...

They come in 9 different Colours... Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo, Violet, Black, and White...

If you want to know all the Workings and Componets of these, it will take a few hundred pages, Involving Instuction Sets, Drawings and writen Documentation.

This Drawing shows The Seraphim in 2 Functions....

You can see why they are said to be Scaley.... LOL.

As to what they appear to be in your world....

Well they can take on any form they desire...




[edit on 24-3-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by undo

True, we are very much preprogrammed, unfortunately. That makes it extremely difficult to look at things in an open and unbiased way.
But if the thranslations are so poor, how would it be possible for someone who can't read hebrew or greek to read the original text?

reply to post by Gwynniver


the following link (first search box) is helpful since it has numbers next to the words that are actually in the original text (the words without numbers aren't in the text), and when you click the numbers, they tell you what the original hebrew words were for those words. you just enter a word that you know to be in the english text, such as "man" or "adam" into the search box and press search button. it will list every incidence of the word in the entire bible and the various hebrew, chaldean, aramaic and greek words that they were translated from (accessed by pressing the little numbers next to the words).
www.eliyah.com...

this link is also useful. each verse has a little drop down box that you can select alternate versions of each verse, such as parallel greek or parallel hebrew or strongs concordance listings. the parallel is really cool because it goes all the way back to the oldest hebrew and lists every available dialect example for that verse, plus the latin translation, king james, and so forth.
www.htmlbible.com...



[edit on 25-3-2010 by undo]