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Today will mark the end of America

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posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by parrothead0333
reply to post by ALLis0NE
 


Why don't you speak with the Treasurer of the State of Massachusetts about whether or not this health care bill will bankrupt American? They have the pilot program for this health care bill and its not going very well.


So because something is not going very well (according to an idiot who is probably dangling from puppet strings) you think it will never work? You think it can never be fixed in the future? You think we should just not try? We should give up? You think it's The End?!



...THAT is the problem with America.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:05 PM
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Gah,

I was hoping for links or news articles declaring such accusations such as "the end of America."

and not ANOTHER thread from a member on why he thinks the country is over.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by For(Home)Country
 


Right now i am in a really bad fiscal situation. I've had to move back in with my dad and by his grace he has been giving me money for food and clothes and a few luxuries and has helped pay for bills (insurance being one of them). My wife and child live in missouri where she is attending school right now, meanwhile i am looking for a job so i can save up money for a house or a decent condo/apartment.


Please explain to me why it is MY responsibility to pay for OTHER PEOPLES poor health choices. Please explain why it is MY RESPONSIBILITY to provide for OTHER PEOPLE AND THEIR FAMILIES? If i came into your house and took ten percent of your food (regardless of whether i needed it or not) you would be OK with that? Howabout i siphon gas out of your cars fuel cell? After all if you tell me i can't you are just being selfish because i DESERVE your money.


I have no problem with helping other people out, i donate spare cash to people as much as i can, but my family and by extension MY NEEDS come first. I can't afford to pay for my own health care LET ALONE the tax increase that would take money away from me Buying a new house or renting an apartment or gas to help me get to my job. Money that i should be spending on my child's education, food and toys for his birthday and christmas.

I guess that makes me selfish like some corporate schill right? That my desire to provide for my own family is greater than my desire to provide for other people.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by For(Home)Country
 


Wow! I have never been accused of being a corporate whore. (The likes of Exxon? Really?) Why is the concept of "do unto others" being a corporate whore? If I do not like the idea of my tax money going to a massive bureaucratic nightmare that will make the DMV look like a carnival I am a corporate whore. If I don't agree that it is right to ration heath care to my own parents I am the problem with this country. This discussion has taken a twist that I thought my neighbor to the north was above. Too bad, I was hoping you might have a bit more to offer then insults and rhetoric. All I can surmise is that you have a dog in this fight and can not look objectively at all the sides.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:12 PM
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While I agree for the most part of what the OP says, we have become a vain society interested in material things, it should be noted that not all of us live in excess. We struggle because of those who DO live in excess rule over those of us who who do not.

I am seeing now that we're going to lose more and have more restrictions placed on us, decision that do NOT belong to any government over human life.

The comfort comes in knowing that in the end, this system cannot and will not continue and it will result in revolution, ALOT of pain/suffering and finally a resolve to build a better system which affords every person their rights to freedom and prosperity.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by gwydionblack
 


Aside from the fact we already have similar programmes in place, Medicare, Medicaid, compulsory car insurance in most states (programmes conservatives have talked about but never dared to remove in office), the most significant thing I've cared to note here is that this is the 100th 'end of america' thread on this forum. There was already a dozen from when Obama took office, its really gotten old.

[edit on 21-3-2010 by Southern Guardian]



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by Joshkl2013
I think it is funny that some people are saying "down with America" and all that jazz. for example saying we don't want this bill passed because we don't want Obama to have a "win". Its ok, I'm 15 and i KNOW that obama is a Marxist, communist hypocrite. You say that WE are easily manipulated, I form my own opinions and i actually know information. And for saying down with America is selfish. And yelling like little children debating nations is immature! Ok, you wanna live in your dirt hole without coke and microwaves don't cry to me. THE POINT IS that AMERICA IS A NATION!!! How would you know what it would be like without them. and why blame us. You say we have chains on you and you want the health care bill passed so we get the freedoms you have. HEALTH CARE IS CHAINS, ALONG WITH TAX RETURNS! You know that minorities get more money back at the end of the year so they will depend on Uncle Sam more? Also, Health care is a way for them to get average people to depend on America! So what you cant do this or that. IT IS AMERICA. You have your nation, we have ours. the point is. if you dont like it, CRY about it.


Wow, all that wisdom and knowledge at only 15. Just kurious, do they allow cousins to marry where you live? Sorry if I seem harsh, the minorities smack was vulgar. Please stay in school and get educated. Feel free to question authority, but above all keep your mind open.

If the Heathcare bill passes you will be able to remain on your parents health insurance for about another 10 years.


Regards...kk

[edit on 21-3-2010 by kinda kurious]



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by havok
AH! Best post EVER!
I am in full support of your thoughts, gwydionblack.
I am in full support of our liberty and will fight for it!
I do NOT stand for this unconstitutional HC Bill.
I will NOT stand for those who want gov't hand outs, either.

Although, I already know that the complacent have thrown our liberties away a long time ago. Americans have had excess for far too long and let the gov't strip our liberties away one decade at a time.

If you look back, far enough, you will see that this is all a plan.
From the very beginning. Central Banks run this country.
They all fall in line when given what they want.

Here here! For a better tomorrow!



I have to ask...Have you ever read the constitution to claim that this health care bill is unconstitutional? Last time I read the Constitution it was pretty clear that it's only a framework on how government should be, what each individual branch can do or can't. The amendments came around much later and even those don't guarantee personal freedom.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:20 PM
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It's becoming clearer to people that They're not able to help us, it's also becoming clear that We don't really have a say in what goes on, people are starting to realize politicians should be ignored(for the most part). And that the only way we'll see any type of change is to bring it about on our own.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:21 PM
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It is my continuing rant; RE-ELECT NO ONE! Get rid of every politician in Washington DC during the November 2010 election cycle. Do not believe anything coming out of the mouths of the lying liars who will say anything to cover their asses and save their corrupt careers.

Revolution starts at the ballot box. If it is once again usurped and stolen as elections of recent memory, then it is time to take to the streets.

Make note of where these scumbags reside. Go to their homes and squat. Don't let them eat, sleep in peace. If they try to run off under armed escort, you stop them. Make their lives a living hell, because they sold out to "special interests" and could have cared less about you and your families long term future.

These bums actually believe you can't touch them. They are so jaded within their culture of corruption, they think they can out wit the voter easily.
Show them who is boss.

Gutting the Senate and Congress will stop Obama in his tracks. He needs political cronyism just like any politician. Without it, he has no one to do his bidding's. Let Obama know, he is one cooked lame duck.

We ain't buying what you're selling Barry!

America is about personal freedoms and opportunity, not Socialism and Fascism. Obama is a two faced Communist loving, hater of everything that is about freedom of choice.
His "Transformation of America" will mean the shredding of the Constitution and Bill of Rights replaced by a new Manifesto of his own making. That too will be shoved down our throats if we do not stop him and his cabal of Marxists and Maoists.

Gun fire is the last resort. It is not what you want, if it can be avoided. Gun fire will assure any last vestiges of freedom we now cling to, will be irrevocably lost for good. Gun fire in the public streets means war on all of us. It will be nearly impossible to contain it, once it breaks out. Too many nut jobs with guns want to kill someone, anyone, given the chance. A sad and unfortunate fact of life here in the USA.

If and when, our government is turned against us like a Chinese tank divisions answer to civil unrest, only then do we take appropriate actions.

Not gun fire, but litigation and the running out of town on a rail of all those who gave the orders to hurt us. This includes, Law Enforcement Personnel, Court Judges, Military Personnel, Reservists, All Politicians. It also extends to Community Organization groups who undermine the tenets of true freedom.

When every corrupt political hack knows his home can burn down in night, and his vehicles can be torched in parking lots, and that he can run but can't hide from the furious mobs out after his hide, maybe then, will they start to honor the oaths of office they take and represent fully the interests and voices of those who hired them.

The day when I hear rapid gun fire and screaming in the streets of my town, I will know that all is lost. The proverbial SHTF will have started.

The days of an all new American Revolution are at hand. RE-ELECT NO ONE.
Exercise your American rights, by voting. Stand shoulder to shoulder with your neighbor, and take a stand against this out of control and unconstitutional acting government. Fire them all in November.

A whole new start is better than thinking the current lying liars in Washington D.C. will ever do the right thing by us. How dense do you have to be before you finally get it? " They ain't on our side folks!"

Not so long ago there was a common townsfolk adage; "Round up all the Lawyers and Politicians and run them out of town!"

Maybe now you can understand why that sentiment was felt and expressed...



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:21 PM
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Alright.. as far as this health care bill goes i feel as though i am missing something. I spoke to my father last night and he is also very concerned about today and what it will bring.. the main concern he raised, and the only one that i can really see is its well over 2000 pages in length and its been said that no one will really know what all is in this bill until its been passed..which is worrying to say the least, gods know what they could have hidden in it.. but on the topic itself, i have lived in America (not happily, obviously) and clearly remember if my son became ill it was either get him treatment or dont eat for a few weeks due to finances.. the Health care is paid for here by taxes from the people.. we, in our house are paid monthly..we get a monthly pay cheque where a portion of it is to cover things from garbage removal services to medical care.. (and of course other places the public knows nothing about -it is, afterall, the government)! but i have to say i like the fact that my sons health comes before monetary concerns..and that i dont have to sell any vital organs in order to get him any possibly needed medicines (though of course like any parent, if it came to that i would) but hopefully i am making this point as clear as it was at first in my head! I am just wondering, what else am i missing about this bill?



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by Daedalus24
 


From a constitutional standpoint, I think the question will probably boil down as to whether or not the federal government has the authority to implement such a system against the will of the states and force all citizens to be customers of private industry. To that end, there are numerous states with pending legislation that would allow their citizens to opt out of the plan altogether. Given that there is no constitutional mandate for a nationalized health care plan, I think the states will probably have a strong case on the grounds of the 10th amendment should it go to the Supreme Court (and I think it will).

We shall see, I suppose.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:26 PM
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No offense, but half the posts in this thread are sanctimonious, jingoistic rubbish.

I don't recall this kind of talk about taking back your rights and getting the U.S.A back to how it was meant to be, during the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.

I do agree with it, but only to a certain extent.

It didn't matter when things were being done in your name in the Middle East, but when events start to affect the comforts you have in the actual United States, then you're in uproar.

This whole thing about how the U.S will be in even more debt if the healthcare is passed and how the U.S can't afford it. Right....but they can afford the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? It seems many Americans given the choice would much rather spend their money over there on a futile war.

All i can say is that i hope that healthcare is passed because i imagine there are going to be a lot of American soldiers who will need it.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:27 PM
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Calm down, America is alive and well. She is actually growing into a stronger more powerful being with a strong sense of individualism but also a sense of community in which we do not allow individuals to fall through the cracks unnecessarily.
Will this generation be described as overweight overreactionists? Because I have the feeling it will.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:27 PM
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The end of America already happened. It was quiet, calculated, and smooth.
The day we stopped appreciating our own history, educating ourselves, taking responsibility for our actions, and thinking that in such a state we could spred
to the rest of the world at the barrel of a gun. America died when we allowed
ourselves to become dependent on an incapable and corrupt government for
all our needs, giving them all the authority they need to MANDATE that you
buy a product from an industry they are subsidizing with your tax dollars...

Some of you are convinced this isn't robbery, but remember those rumors
about the insurance industry being insolvent? People actually think they're
getting reform and by all measure this bill is a bailout with a sugar coating
hoping you won't get it. Many haven't.

And here we are. People have figured out that they can vote themselves money,
and from here the only place we can go, with our explosive debt and prohibitively
large government, is collapse. Good luck to you America.


Good luck to all of us.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:36 PM
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It is sad that in America we are looking at the government becoming what we fled from in England. If you think that this bill is the last of it you are crazy. Now the president has been set and no matter who is in control of the government the politicians will always take it to the extreme. Right or left. This is what this bill will bring.... no political middle what so ever. Far right and far left. In other words, no common sense. Just tick for tack with more taxes, more spending and no one listening to the public.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by DeathShield
 


Are you aware that RIGHT NOW you already pay for other peoples healthcare?

Yup, all their costs are being handed over to you and other innocent people through higher healthcare costs and higher insurance costs, so that they can cover their loses.

That means every time you see a doctor, or pay your health insurance bill, you are helping pay for someone else's healthcare and you don't even know it!

So right now, as it is, everyone who needs healthcare is paying for other people...... THAT is not fair.

How is it fair that unhealthy people are being forced to pay more for others? It's not. People who need healthcare are in no position to pay such high prices just to cover loses created by other people.

There is only one way to fix this... make EVERYONE pay equally.

Not only will this lower health insurance costs, but in the end YOU will save money when you go to get health care.




Originally posted by DeathShield
Please explain to me why it is MY responsibility to pay for OTHER PEOPLES poor health choices. Please explain why it is MY RESPONSIBILITY to provide for OTHER PEOPLE AND THEIR FAMILIES?


Can you answer something for me?

I pay taxes.... That means I pay for the US military. I pay for US law enforcement. I pay to take care of the roads and sidewalks.... etc....

Why is it MY RESPONSIBILITY to pay for wars I don't agree with? Why is it my responsibility to pay for law enforcement which just turns around and gives me traffic tickets that I have to pay for? Why is it MY responsibility to pay for new roads, new sidewalks with handicap ramps for wheelchairs, and pot holes?

...think long and hard... because I already know the answer.

[edit on 21-3-2010 by ALLis0NE]



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:39 PM
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Better health insurance will not cure cancer, heart disease, MS, MD, diabetes, or any other major disease and illness. It will be as effective as the war on drugs or the war of terrorism; just another revenue stream for an unknown shareholder. If this is suppose to save us money then why does it cost a trillion dollars? I can not believe that those funds could not be better spent in actual research to cure the diseases that kill us? More important than health care, is for each of us to care about our health. That is what is killing us faster than the high cost of insurance premiums. Like auto insurance, health insurance should only be fully utilized in a disaster type situation. Now, we know that it will merely keep you from bankruptcy. Either way, the greed is going to screw us. How ignorant to think that we are above, different and smarter the other great nations that crashed and burned in our brief world history. Lame.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by ALLis0NE
 


ALLisONE, stop it. Think about it. Please, think. You know that person you are arguing with will never agree with you and is merely setting you up to call you something like "progressive liberal socialist" Do not get involved in an argument with that person. If they want to be selfish, let them be selfish.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by Ahabstar
 


Gimme a break,

"I am all for the US returning to its isolationist roots. Let the rest of the world settle their squabbles on their own. Let the EU handle tin-horn dictators in second and third world countries. Let other nations of the world hear the cries of oppressed people that cannot defend themselves as a larger nation takes them over and subjugates, enslaves and murders their way either directly or by proxy. Let the rest of the world give aid and relief in times of natural disasters. Or food. Or shelter. Or money....

Yeah, didn't think any other country would step up to the plate."

It's just this attitude that really annoys me, like the US is the only one who 'cares', the only one who 'makes a difference', the only one who gets up offa their lazy asses and helps those poor idiots who can't help themselves. Well, you sound like you're isolated enough buddy, in your own little world, with you and your USA right at the centre of everything. I hate to say it, but....typical.



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