Today will mark the end of America

Over 99% of the world has socialized medicine. Funny how it didn't seem to ruin any of those nations.

As I see it greed is what ruined America. Programs like Medicare, Old Age Security, etc. are part of what makes America great.

reply to post by infinite


Well, the OP has for the longest time been trying to goad people into some misconceived civil war. If you talk to him long enough you soon realize what he is all about and it's not Freedom.

Course he is too much of a coward to start his civil war himself. He wants to rial everyone else to do his dirty work for him, but if you talk to him enough you soon see what he really wants to do...

post by gwydionblack

An epiphany! How grand!

Perhaps I can use the back of my degree to draft a new Constitution or Declaration or Independence, hell I could even get more use out of it by cutting it into little squares and making a flip book out of it.

Fun times.

Bold and color added for emphasis.

This guy doesn't want freedom he wants his version of freedom, and his version of freedom doesn't include everyone.

He wants to replace the 13th Amendment with some fictional 13th amendment which would strip people of their citizenship and open up the possibility of slavery.

He is a coward, he would never do it himself, he would never lead a revolution, he is very content to sit at his computer and try and convince YOU to do the fighting for him.

[edit on 3/22/2010 by whatukno]

reply to post by krunchy


Didn't ruin any of those countries? Are you serious? Europe is practically broke b/c of socialized medicine. Examples: GB, France, Spain. Others: Canada is on the verge and has massive influx, not to mention it takes a "lottery" system to see who can see a doctor in some provinces. One of our own states has filed for 1.5 Billion dollars from the federal gov't to pay its doctors and hospitals b/c the "socialized" medicine there has failed...

This is a farce.

Sometimes a gift is wrapped in beautiful wrapping paper. Then you open it, and it's not what you wanted at all. Everyone who's been following U.S politics (which is BS by the way) knows this is just a backdoor ploy to take over our freedoms. They are all playing us. Dems and Repubs. I believe they're in it together and I'm convinced it's all an act. They want us to focus "over there" while they shift things around "over here".

Originally posted by nycfrog27
reply to post by krunchy

 

Didn't ruin any of those countries? Are you serious? Europe is practically broke b/c of socialized medicine. Examples: GB, France, Spain. Others: Canada is on the verge and has massive influx, not to mention it takes a "lottery" system to see who can see a doctor in some provinces. One of our own states has filed for 1.5 Billion dollars from the federal gov't to pay its doctors and hospitals b/c the "socialized" medicine there has failed...

The US spends more per capita on health care than any other nation in the world. By a large margin. Therefore, your assertion that socialized medicine is bankrupting Europe is incorrect.

Further, the US is in far worse financial shape than most countries with socialized medicine.

reply to post by krunchy


The US spends more per capita on health care than any other nation in the world. By a large margin. Therefore, your assertion that socialized medicine is bankrupting Europe is incorrect.

What does our spending have to do with a comparison to Europe's? Nobody said that our spending was more or less than Europe's. I said that western Europe has tried it, and it's failing. Even the Democrats agree with this! What you wrote doesn't even make sense. Apologies if I offended you.

I meant to quote the top statement, sorry

reply to post by DarkspARCS


Apparently DakspARCS is one of those people that believes that the world revolves around the USA. It's especially poignant that you think Coca Cola and battery chicken are some of the great things that America has given to the world!

And imagine thinking that somehow the USA has been significant in the advancement of the automobile over the last 30 years? If it wasn't for the relaxing of import restrictions during my childhood, you'd still be driving American-made gas guzzlers (instead of Japanese-made gas guzzlers.) Detroit car workers would still be the best paid workers in the world.

And if it wasn't for cheap imports, most of the items you mentioned would only be owned by the wealthiest of American's. It's the cheap labor from 3rd world countries that underpins America's success and it's current demise. Far from needing us, it's us that rely on the rest of the world yet we're the ones undermining the security of those nations.

Originally posted by 12.13.2012
reply to post by drcreamcheese

 

Tea party and coffee party are to give us the impression that there are groups rallying for the "cause"- when they were really launched by the elites to keep the fury contained. Like how they have demonstration "areas" already pre-designated and fenced in when they expect some bad attitude from "We, the People...", or like how voting really makes us feel like we are involved. Smoke and mirrors. We are kept too disoriented to really understand the situations. HealthCare is a BIG card for them, I know the elites are already picking out there X-mas presents on this one.

The Coffee Party of Texas Changing the political Culture. Were tired of the yelling..... and the BS in politics

Read the following and tell me how were the same as the TEA PARTY. Last I check, we don't charge our members a fee to attend a rally.

Coffee Party of Texas Statement on Changing the Political Culture
Collectively crafted by Coffee Party members of Austin, Dallas, Houston and San Antonio Texas

We are voters who are disenchanted with the major political parties and the political culture of Washington

We came together because we want to change the way our political process works. We are particularly concerned with the current Washington culture of:
• Politics by false or exaggerated sound bite.
• Poor budget discipline
• The inclusion of self-serving earmarks in nearly every bill
• The weakening of essential regulations
• Tolerance for corruption and poor personal conduct of members
• Procedural maneuvers that block almost every legislative measure
• Fealty to private special interests and the dismissal of public need

We take strong exception to the judgment of the judiciary, which interprets the Constitution to mean that:
• Money equals speech
• Corporations have the same rights as persons, which appears to allow them to speak so loudly and so often that the electorate can no longer discern propaganda from information
• No common sense interpretation of the Constitution exists to protect and defend a level playing field among public and wealthy private interests in the crafting of public policy

We believe that Congress is wrongly beholden to wealthy private Special Interests, who:
• Receive disproportionate attention and advantage:
• Hold far too much influence over public policy
• Finance too many Congressional campaigns and thus hold representatives captive
• Use political controversy to advance their masked objectives
• Funding political speech that agitates extremists instead of engaging the moderate and pragmatic majority
• Push decisions determined along party lines rather than solutions based on civil discussion and compromise.

We believe civic-minded candidates are too often discouraged from seeking office because of the need to raise so much money to be competitive, And those who do run are often trapped into paying fealty to private special interests. We want a Congress whose members place country above party and private special interests, and who believe in effective governing. We want to maximize citizen participation in elections and political discourse. We therefore support these ideas, policies, and systems:
• The creation of a voluntary public campaign-funding system, to minimize the influence of private special interests, to improve the collegiality of our leaders, and to minimize time required for campaign fund-raising.
• Use of publicly owned airwaves for informative political discourse
• Non-partisan redistricting so that voters, rather than incumbents, choose their elected officials
• Improved ballot access so that candidates and alternative parties can run competitive races. Many citizens do not feel represented by either of the major political parties
• Universal voter registration
• Same-day voter registration
• Restoration of voting rights. E.g. ex-Felons who have paid their debt to society
• Move Elections from Tuesday to a day of week that maximizes voter turnout
• Allow for early voting, as in Texas
• Mail-in ballots, as in Washington State
• Better voter verification that does not result in disenfranchising voters by cost or inconvenience
• Better election verification with nationwide standards for improving the trustworthiness of our election results
• Instant runoff voting, where voters can indicate their first and second candidate choices on one ballot. This would eliminate the need for expensive runoff elections. And it would let voters better express their preferences in the voting booth without the fear of “wasting” their vote
• Optimizing transparency in all campaign and governmental affairs

There appears to be no consensus yet on these related issues.
• Term limits, to prevent the concentration of power and special interest domination in any political arena.
• Changing the seniority system in Congress, which concentrates power in the hands of a few individuals for long periods of time
• The Electoral College gives certain swing states disproportionate power in selecting the President and Vice President. Proponents argue that it protects the rights of smaller states. Some support a replacement of the Electoral College with a direct popular vote
• Perhaps an appropriate outlet for the Coffee Party is forming a PAC to support candidates who will champion our platform
• Enforced anonymity of political campaign contributions: donations could be made to a centralized [government or impartial, not-for-profit] entity [such as the League Women of Voters], designated for a particular candidate. A fund-raising system with no quid pro quo, where bribery is not an objective, means that candidates need not know the identity of their contributors. No one could know with certainty who contributed how much to their campaigns. This system allows corporations to continue funding the electoral process without “buying” politicians. It protects contributors who fear drowning in campaign requests from others. It also protects the candidate-elect from the perception of being corrupted by a large contribution

We believe that the party that leads these reforms is most likely to win the goodwill of independent voters.

Originally posted by Full_Vision

I've often said all it would take to kill a large number of the population is to take away their microwaves and mcdonalds...

Amen! However, anyone whose been regularly eating McDonalds food will very likely take decades to decay.

I dont see how the government can afford $100 billion a year for health care when the country is in a recession right now

New Health Care Bill will cost about $100 billion a year. This is about the yearly cost of the Iraq War.

Whats next is total economic collapse.....





Click here to see what representative got how much money.

maplight.org...


It should be illegal for representatives to accept bribes for their votes....
They shouldve passed that bill instead of the health care bill

Theyre not representing us/the public!!!!!!!
They represent who pays them the most money!!!!!!

[edit on 22-3-2010 by DjSharperimage]

Originally posted by krunchy
Over 99% of the world has socialized medicine. Funny how it didn't seem to ruin any of those nations.

As I see it greed is what ruined America. Programs like Medicare, Old Age Security, etc. are part of what makes America great.

You're argument is null and void for one very good reason - Obamacare IS NOT socialized medicine!

For example, there are more payouts to the insurance industry in this bill than ever before. But I guess you didn't read the bill did you?

Almost 4 pages later and no one has commented on my post on page 12. The Titanic is sinking and as I try to lead people to life boats, some would choose to follow while others would choose to continue playing their instruments and living their jolly good life - ignorant of what is happening.

I don't really care. Some of the people deserve what they are going to get. Some people in this topic are going to be face to face with death and hardship in the next couple of years and even then - they will be too proud to admit that they did nothing but argued piteously.

reply to post by whatukno


Some of us will be so obsessed with actually arguing an issue, no matter the real purpose of the discussion - that they will try to discredit a person with no bounds or regard - simply because they do not agree with them.



Call me a coward, call me what you want. I do not speak empty words on here or ATS. I have promised that when revolution comes, and it will, I will be on the front lines with the people who care - while those who those to insult those said people will be hiding in their basements with the delusional belief that on that day, on the day that people actually decided to stand up - they will believe that THAT was the day that America died. The logic is funny. The idiocy and arrogance is not.

Revolution will come. THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF 'IF'. If the people will be too afraid to fire the first shot themselves then let it be known, as I have declared in the past - that I WILL be the one to start it off. I will be the catalyst and if I have to I WILL give my life in order for the future of our young ones to be steered from tyranny, and though it might be difficult - will be completely surrounded in freedom.

I have nothing to lose. I have spoken with hundreds and possibly thousands of people from around this country who feel the same way. The people I have spoken with or met represent only a small majority of a greater scale. With every passing day more and more people are devoted to honor and dignity than their television and fast food. The mindset IS changing even though you would choose to ignore it and stay a part of the old mindset. The ones who have everything to lose are our children and our children's children. I hope to one day have a child of my own but any parent who willing subjects their kin to the atrocity that this government displays, and chooses to do nothing about it feeling like they have been given the greatest chance.... then you know nothing of parenting.

Explain to your child when he is growing up how he is already placed into thousands of dollars in debt.

Explain to your child growing up that you can't afford to buy him new clothing or shoes because you don't have a job - and the small government subsidy you live off of is just enough to get by.

Explain to your child the definition of the word "choice" and why in this society, there are choices already made for you - against your will.

Explain to your child that to think, and imagine anything different or better than what they live in - will result in their incarceration and possible death.

Explain to the WORLD how you can still love a child yet subject them to this oppression and stagnation of humanity.




Words will not harm my resolve. Government bodies will not sway my thoughts. No other person will tell me what I HAVE to do.

Greater men and women than I have, in the past, quoted the process of Patriotism and those brave enough to stand as patriots in the beginning. They have documents the ridicule, the taunting, and the discrediting that goes hand in hand with standing up for something you believe in. Yes, evil has followed in the same foot steps but say has sanctity and good will.

Martin Luther King Jr. though ridiculed, berated, and demonized by an overwhelming amount of people continued his fight for civil liberties - even against all the disagreements. He gave his life for that dream.

Our Founding Fathers, though denounced by an overwhelming amount of people, and ridiculed for their actions - held strong in their resolve that revolution was a necessary step to overthrow the British rule and form these United States of America.

In these two situations the underdogs stood tall in the face of arrogance, ignorance, and closed mindedness yet still accomplished the tasks they set out to do. In the end they had made the world a better place and put the haters and naysayers to rest once and for all. I hold the resolve of these great men of the past. Though I might not be as intelligent or as thought provoking - I guarantee - that with every ounce of blood in my body that the things I speak on here or in any situations are NOT empty words but are sentiments of my own wills and actions.

It is not the men who stood against revolution and patriots that go down in the history books - it is those patriots and revolutionaries.



Let it be known that anyone who chooses to abandon the issues at hand and instead belittle those who would choose to do something about them - you will go down into history as a non-point and shall soon be forgotten. I can only hope that at the very least, if my actions do not provoke a full on revolution of freedom and liberty - that it will be known that not all people were slaves to society and there were some, albeit a few, who chose to stand up and demand their God given rights.

Even if I die the idea that I had done something to try to change the collision course will live strong in the minds of others who seek to do the same and thus - the fight will never die. Liberty will never die. FREEDOM will never die.

A man by the name of Edmund Burke once said an all too common quote that rings true today just as it did back then -

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

But unlike the other uses of that quote, Mr Burke also stated this in addition:

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."




We must unite or we will all fail. Our children will fail. Humanity will fail. Uniting does not mean following the will of another. It does not mean having to agree with those you choose to associate with. It is the acknowledgment of differing beliefs and ideals - yet with a common enemy in tow - the tolerance of such things.

We all have our arguments and qualms with the government, yet instead of aiming our words at those who are guilty, those who are the true enemy we would aim them at each other and thus all progress, peaceful, violent, or otherwise is lost.


Look past the brother sitting next to you and look up at the real enemy. The time is now to unite, regardless of our differing opinions, and to open our minds to EACH OTHER!



There is nothing more that I can possibly say. I have exhausted all values of logic and sentiment and now the ball is in the court of the individual to either listen to what I have to say or ignore it. This is no longer a battle with me - this is a battle with yourself. It is time for each and every one of us to stop and think about who the enemy really is.

-Gwyd

I have argued with you enough to know what you are all about. And I am against it. You are all about destroying this nation. Your Revolution is about enslaving people. You want to re write the constitution. I can never ever be for that.

And don't ever threaten my child again. Don't mention my child again, and don't THINK of my child again. If you really really want to piss someone off, threaten their child. I will NOT take my child threatened by the likes of YOU.



[edit on 3/22/2010 by whatukno]

Originally posted by gwydionblack


Revolution will come. THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF 'IF'. If the people will be too afraid to fire the first shot themselves then let it be known, as I have declared in the past - that I WILL be the one to start it off. I will be the catalyst and if I have to I WILL give my life in order for the future of our young ones to be steered from tyranny, and though it might be difficult - will be completely surrounded in freedom.



-Gwyd

So um...

what uh...

what are you waiting for, exactly?

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by gwydionblack


Revolution will come. THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF 'IF'. If the people will be too afraid to fire the first shot themselves then let it be known, as I have declared in the past - that I WILL be the one to start it off. I will be the catalyst and if I have to I WILL give my life in order for the future of our young ones to be steered from tyranny, and though it might be difficult - will be completely surrounded in freedom.

-Gwyd

So um...

what uh...

what are you waiting for, exactly?

Exactly...Let's go big boy (the O/P, that is)

The O/P is what's commonly known in Australia & the UK as a "showbag", A definition may be found at Urban Dicitionary.

Originally posted by gwydionblack
I have promised that when revolution comes, and it will, I will be on the front lines with the people who care.......

With due respect, I feel that those around you do really care:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d635d104c00f.jpg[/atsimg]

Ah, the warm rush of Patriotism.

“Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it.” - George Bernard Shaw

The Titanic is sinking and as I try to lead people to life boats, some would choose to follow while others would choose to continue playing their instruments and living their jolly good life - ignorant of what is happening.

To use your own analogy, you are merely rearranging the deck chairs.





[edit on 22-3-2010 by kinda kurious]

Originally posted by gwydionblack
Almost 4 pages later and no one has commented on my post on page 12. The Titanic is sinking and as I try to lead people to life boats, some would choose to follow while others would choose to continue playing their instruments and living their jolly good life - ignorant of what is happening.

I don't really care. Some of the people deserve what they are going to get. Some people in this topic are going to be face to face with death and hardship in the next couple of years and even then - they will be too proud to admit that they did nothing but argued piteously.

I wonder if you will be to proud to admit that in a couple of years when people are still going to ballgames, Watching rasseling and NASCAR getting married and having babies, going to work, and bitching on ATS that all your gnashing of teeth, wringing of hands and whining like a crybaby, was all much ado about nothing?

I'm not saying violent revolution couldn't happen but it would morph so quickly into a race war and anarchy that we would wish for the good old Obama and Bush days.

I try to lead people to life boats,

Sir you suffer from a Messianic complex and need therapy to get your mind right. Good luck!


And after the vote; this morning I took a beautiful woman to breakfast;
sitting here at work, on ATS, not one, not one person has mentioned the vote or the inevitable demise of America.
































[edit on 22-3-2010 by whaaa]

reply to post by K J Gunderson

what are you waiting for, exactly?

I have a deadline. If the people do not stand up willingly by that deadline then I will. And no, that deadline is not some far off fantasy - it has roughly a two year time span.

Care to comment on any of the rest of my post or just the things you wish to attack?


reply to post by Retrovertigo

The O/P is what's commonly known in Australia & the UK as a "showbag"

Yes... just you wait and see. Why do you even care again living in Australia?

Care to comment on any of the rest of my post or just the things you wish to attack?


reply to post by kinda kurious


Care to comment on any of the rest of my post or just the things you wish to attack?


reply to post by whaaa

I wonder if you will be to proud to admit that in a couple of years when people are still going to ballgames, Watching rasseling and NASCAR getting married and having babies, going to work, and bitching on ATS that all your gnashing of teeth, wringing of hands and whining like a crybaby, was all much ado about nothing?

Yeah, come four years - IF that is the case... which considering my path being set on a course of action would be an improbability - I would be willing to admit that it was "much ado about nothing". However, I see you as the type of person who would never admit to being wrong.

I'm not saying violent revolution couldn't happen but it would morph so quickly into a race war and anarchy

Yes, because this has happened with all of the violent revolutions in the past. Care to name one?

Sir you suffer from a Messianic complex and need therapy to get your mind right. Good luck!

Did you just say I suffer from a Messianic complex because I would like to lead people to life boats on a sinking ship? I do believe that was the context of my entire quote. Not sure what they teach in school these days or whenever it was that you went, but last I learned when growing up is that doing something like this is called being "kind" and "selfless". However, I can see in this world of dime a dozen psychological disorders how you would try to pin me with one just to discredit me. Personal attacks seem to be a specialty while actually talking about the points I make... well, I guess we will leave that to the more intelligent ones.

Care to comment on any of the rest of my post or just the things you wish to attack?






All around me are familiar faces,
Worn out places, worn out faces,
Bright and early for the daily races,
Going nowhere, going nowhere.


That is how I feel when the usual clique against my views decides to personally attack me rather than comment or dispute anything I say. The game is old and I honestly don't care anymore. You aren't accomplishing anything.


[edit on 22-3-2010 by gwydionblack]

reply to post by gwydionblack


Well, what are you waiting for ??

Get your arse off the computer chair, grab your guns and ammo and get out into the street and start this revolution you've been bull-#ting on about the last day or so...

Like I said, you're all talk...A showbag...

Originally posted by gwydionblack
reply to post by kinda kurious
Care to comment on any of the rest of my post or just the things you wish to attack?

Gladly, read up Ethnocentrism:

dictionary.reference.com...

Oh and I abhor violence. Keep it up, Dooper needs a friend.

[edit on 22-3-2010 by kinda kurious]