How exactly do you win the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?

It's a very simple question.

What's the plan again? for victory?



You see, the military has somehow been deceived into believing that their weapons will somehow bring stability into the region... No?

Oh I see... you guys are training Iraqis and Afghanis to keep the country stable?




BTW... I think Hollywood just made a movie for you folks: It's called Green Zone.


Oh and BTW... I think Hollywood made another movie for you guys (subliminally)... It's called AVATAR... and the anti-American-militaristic overtones should be obvious to any civilian you think you are fighting for.



I'm a civilian... You are no longer fighting for my freedom... you are endangering it.

Do I still have the freedom of speech to say this to you guys?

I gotta say, that sounds kind of condesending...

I mean I'm not in the military, so I can't answer your questions. If I were to attempt to do so, I would say I don't know.

You can't win a war in Middle Asia.

The Middle East is where empires go to die. Just open any history book to a page where somebody who wasn't from there, tried to take it over and see what happened.

As far as the movies are concerned, I think people see what they want to see with "secret" and "hidden" messages. I doubt James Cameron gave damn about the actual military or making a point about the wars.

He's been developping the movie for 10 years, long before there was a war in Iraq or Afghanistan...

Green Zone is just another crappy hollywood blockbuster. Which flopped I believe??

~Keeper

Originally posted by tothetenthpower


As far as the movies are concerned, I think people see what they want to see with "secret" and "hidden" messages. I doubt James Cameron gave damn about the actual military or making a point about the wars.

He's been developping the movie for 10 years, long before there was a war in Iraq or Afghanistan...

~Keeper

Are you serious?

Well maybe if Braveheart and V for Vendetta were released in 2009 you'de get the message.

If you saw the movie Avatar, and didn't catch the liberal message... I'm sorry.
Doesn't matter if the story was written in 1965... They threw in a few key words that make more sense today. (Fighting terror with terror, Shock & Awe)

[edit on 21-3-2010 by Doomsday 2029]

This is one of the most insulting threads ever on ATS.

If you cannot distinguish between generals, politicians and regular soldiers than you are quite the philistine. Blinded by pure partisan views. I assume the OP is not in the military service, so this is the ultimate sign of cowardice by criticising others who were willing to participate in the army.

Hate the game, not the player

Also, I never knew there was a place called "Middle Asia", Asia minor yes. Central Asia is where Afghanistan is located. Iraq is in the Middle East, or Western Asia (depending what term you prefer)

The Middle East is where empires go to die. Just open any history book to a page where somebody who wasn't from there, tried to take it over and see what happened.

That's not entirely true. Majority of the expansion of the British Empire occurred after the failures in Afghanistan. Mongol and Hunnic Empire's had enormous expansion in Central and Western Asia.

The Ancient Indian Empire's too dominated majority of the region of centuries. Alexander the Great not only conquered the Persian Empire, but significant potions of Asia Minor. One could literally cover dozens of pages, in this thread, to define the conquest of other empires of this region.

So, can I ask you what history books you are reading then?

Originally posted by infinite
This is one of the most insulting threads ever on ATS.

If you cannot distinguish between generals, politicians and regular soldiers than you are quite the philistine. Blinded by pure partisan views.

This is one of the most insulting post ever on ATS.

what did you call me? Philistine?

Blinded by pure partisan views.

I am prior military...
Leave the Soldiers alone. And to answer your question, the US Military already won the war. Saddam and his forces where decimated and he was hanged by his own people - that is victory.
They have embarked on another mission in Iraq in which they have no choice but to carry out.

Originally posted by vance
I am prior military...
Leave the Soldiers alone. And to answer your question, the US Military already won the war. Saddam and his forces where decimated and he was hanged by his own people - that is victory.
They have embarked on another mission in Iraq in which they have no choice but to carry out.

Mission accomplished in Iraq?... okay..

what's the next mission and how do we win this?



Seems like the best way to win in Iraq is to bring the troops home... But I guess we all like the price of gas right now, so maybe we should stay there.

Originally posted by Doomsday 2029



You always have a choice... but I guess people in the military have no balls?

No balls in what?

Many things are based on what price you are willing to pay, as in what are you willing to fall on your sword over, as it is said in the military. Those Americans that you say "find their balls everyday" most likely have nothing to lose anyways...hehe

What are you willing to fall on your sword over? You an all or nothing kind of guy?

Asking the rank and file about how the war(s) will be, or have been, won is quite ridiculous.

Your opening salvo is rife with condescension and obvious disdain for military personnel. It is your right to have such strong passions as you do and I applaud you for exhibiting it.

Now that I have said that I wonder what is the answer you seek? You ask a group that are part of the tactical portion of the military. Soldiers in general do not blindly follow orders because someone with more stripes or brass tells them to do it.

You claim that military personnel are robots, but yet you have never experienced the regiment that these folks are in.

The military in the United States goes to great lengths to tie the hands of the everyday soldier. Law of Armed Combat, Rules of Engagement, Geneva Convention training and on and on and on. They are charged with following the orders of the officers appointed above them, but they are also expected to speak up when an order is not lawful.

Its an ugly profession indeed, but its a profession nonetheless.

My advice, stop asking the soldiers and start asking your congressmen that are continually authorizing the conflicts.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy

My advice, stop asking the soldiers and start asking your congressmen that are continually authorizing the conflicts.

They all seem to be payed off.

I guess the military hasn't figured it out by now, but they are being used to fight a dirty, illegal, unconstitutional war.

the civilians in the 1960's knew what was happening (Nam)... but they eventually got labeled as Hippies. The civilians nowadays are too buys looking at how many friends they have on FACEBOOK.


So here I am... a tax paying civilian (paying your salary)

and am asking you... Hey maybe you shouldn't follow the orders anymore?



But I'm sure one day the military will have an order to fire on the very civilians they are suppose to protect.... and I have no doubt in my mind that they will follow those orders.

Originally posted by Doomsday 2029

I guess the military hasn't figured it out by now, but they are being used to fight a dirty, illegal, unconstitutional war.

Well damn, VOTE SOMEONE ELSE INTO OFFICE! Why is it the militaries job to mop up the civilians screw-ups? FIX IT!

the civilians in the 1960's knew what was happening (Nam)... but they eventually got labeled as Hippies. The civilians nowadays are too buys looking at how many friends they have on FACEBOOK.

I thought you said millions are getting balls everday...

So here I am... a tax paying civilian (paying your salary)

and am asking you... Hey maybe you shouldn't follow the orders anymore?

Hey maybe you should go take a gun into your government building and demand they follow your lead....when you do that for me I'll stop following orders.

If you want me to give up my freedom (jail time) and the security and welfare of my family it better be good…



[edit on 21-3-2010 by Xtrozero]