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Boehner: It's "Armageddon," Health Care Bill Will "Ruin our Country"

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posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 02:51 AM
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Hi all,

I'm not going to pretend to know what's going on over there in the USA regarding Obamas Healthcare overhaul, but i would like to get the ideas of all you Americans on ATS.

I saw this story tonight and thought these are pretty strong words by "House Minority Leader John Boehner ". So are they exaggerated or is there a huge cause for concern over this thing?

The next 24 hours are "armageddon" because the health care bill proposed by Democrats will "ruin our country," House Minority Leader John Boehner said Saturday, a day before a crucial vote on the bill in the House.

Boehner made the charge first to the GOP caucus meeting where leaders were trying to rally lawmakers to keep fighting to get more "no" votes from wavering Democrats.

A raucous crowd of citizens surrounded the leader at a press conference chanting, "kill the bill!"

House Republican Conference Chairman Mike Pence of Indiana also said that the House of Representatives is not "the president's House...or the speaker's House...this is the people's House."The comments pay homage to newly elected Senator Scott Brown, R-MA, who now famously said at a debate that he was not running for former Senator Ted Kennedy's seat, but rather the "people's seat."


congress.blogs.foxnews.com...

G.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 03:09 AM
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I hope it passes.
And i hope its the worst thing that happens and cost a fortune.

And next is cap and trade. And new bank and economic regulation to keep the banks from ripping us off again.

Then the real fun begins.

We will see what the people think about the democratic party in three years.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 03:22 AM
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Wow, is this the only thing on the news in America right now? The back and forth over there is becoming insane! All of this over a plan that doesn't even socialize healthcare entirely!

As for it being the end of the world, well it's such common knowledge that every country that ever changes anything in the healthcare-issue, their country spontaneously explodes, then it rains "The Fountainhead" and "Atlas Shrugged" on everyone until supply-side Jesus is happy...



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 03:55 AM
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Originally posted by ProjectJimmy
Wow, is this the only thing on the news in America right now? The back and forth over there is becoming insane! All of this over a plan that doesn't even socialize healthcare entirely!


It's either healthcare reform or how Toyota is killing everyone on our 24/7 'news' networks.

Short summary for those not connected to US news:

MSNBC: We need HCR...like, yesterday!
CNN: Do we need this? Sure...maybe...
Fox: Next stop for average Americans after HCR; concentration camps!1!!111!!@#


+2 more 
posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 04:32 AM
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Since no one has really answered your question.

The government will have access to our bank accounts with this bill.

There are numerous new taxes in this bill.

Forced purchases of insurance without removal of the buying outside state's lines.

No more private loans for college. All money for college will come from the government.

OH, and the biggest one, no benefits until the 5th year. But the taxes kick in right away. As everyone knows, when government takes in money, they spend it. There will be no money left in 5 years, so newer taxes will have to be installed. This is just another smoke and mirrors maneuver. Tax and Control. Nothing more.

As for the spontaneous explosion, as Jimmy put it so well.

This is un Constitutional. The states are already passing and have already passed decrees, that they will not allow this to be installed in their state.

The federal government has gone way beyond it's scope. The continuous wars and federal mandates has bankrupted this country and has led us to this economic depression. Do not think the depression is over by what you see on the MSM.

As soon as the first state decides to push the secession button, you will we see the dissolution of the union. I guess Russian had it right. They predicted this. I guess the winner of the cold war will be them, by the very politicians that are trying to install the same system that they had.

This system we have is a hybrid socialist/fascist/corporatist nightmare.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 04:37 AM
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From what I can see, the rich people don't want to pay more for private healthcare, so the less fortunate can have some form free health care.

It comes down to a class war! Upper against Lower and the in between effectively stand to lose the most.

In the battle on the politcal side it all comes down to who wants the power next term. It wouldn't matter if it was the greatest healthcare system in the world the opposition will oppose it. It's there job!

With the screwed up state that country is in, it will need to be broken down and put back together in order to fix it. It's like any internal combustion engine. When the vavles and rings go, you gotta dismantle the whole thing and piece it back together.

You've got to be cruel to be kind!

[edit on 21/3/10 by spearhead]

[edit on 21/3/10 by spearhead]



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 04:46 AM
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posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 04:53 AM
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reply to post by ANNED
 

I don't think we have 3 years. Its pretty much time to hold a wake for America. Its just not a free country anymore.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 04:58 AM
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reply to post by spearhead
 

Actually everybody gets health care now, this bill is completely fake. ITs not about healthcare, ts about control. The gov (mostly in the form of the IRS) gets total control of all. They force you to buy health care, at the price they set. They can get into your bank accounts, they get access to all your medical records ...which they can share with all the law enforcement ..it goes on and on.
The education part wil likely let them choose what you may or may not study in college ... don't like their pick? ok then no money for college.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 05:02 AM
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Originally posted by endisnighe
The government will have access to our bank accounts with this bill.


Which part of HR 3590 or 4872 says that?


There are numerous new taxes in this bill.

Link to the section that says that?


Forced purchases of insurance without removal of the buying outside state's lines.

I wish we could've gotten the public option with this one. However, the Fed left that up to the states with this, "...states may form compacts with other states to permit cross-state sale of health insurance."


No more private loans for college. All money for college will come from the government.

I'm going to guess you're referring to Title II, Subtitle A, Part II of HR 4872...which doesn't say anything about all loans coming from the federal government. Instead it makes mention of terminating the Federal Family Education Loan program and changing terms of student loans to 10% of total income, as opposed to 15%, after July 1, 2014.


OH, and the biggest one, no benefits until the 5th year. But the taxes kick in right away. As everyone knows, when government takes in money, they spend it. There will be no money left in 5 years, so newer taxes will have to be installed. This is just another smoke and mirrors maneuver. Tax and Control. Nothing more.


I suggest you read the implementaion timeline and the immediate benefits.


This is un Constitutional.

I know I can't argue with you on this, not becuase I think you're right, but because you're dead set in your belief in small government.


The states are already passing and have already passed decrees, that they will not allow this to be installed in their state.

I mention in a seperate thread that, as of this post, TWO have enacted such legislation. SIX have killed said legislation. Only a handful of others have proposed it.


The federal government has gone way beyond it's scope.

See? Dead set in your ideas. Not bad, I just can't sway you.


This system we have is a...corporatist nightmare.

Amen.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 05:47 AM
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posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 06:10 AM
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reply to post by links234
 


Good breakdown to my comment.

One thing, if you are going to quote me, do NOT modify my quote. I am not sure but doing that may be against the T&C.

Where did you get the pdf files. It would be nice to know their source, otherwise they mean nothing.

Yeah, I will not address the new taxes components. You are REALLY not going to say there are not new taxes are you? Or does gumballs and rainbows really come from this bill?

Please do not try to disprove my assertions on this bill by posting wikipedia. My god, that is alright for generic components but not as an argument against US legislation.

As for swaying me, yes, no one will EVER sway me to believe the federal government has ANY benevolent feelings toward me.

The largest destruction of our rights was the Federal Reserve and the 16th amendment. Now that they have destroyed the economy and our country, they are to be given even more powers.

Yeah, government is our friend. It knows what is best for me and since it does it puts a gun to my head and steals my labor making me a slave.

Yes, I am dead set in my ways. People that CAN look at history and see the steps we are taking are EXACTLY the same as any other despot in history.

Sorry, I will reiterate my previous comments ending since you hacked it up.

This country has become a socialist/fascist/corporatist nightmare.

Some people cannot see that both parties want the same thing, CONTROL.

Control of every aspect of everything in our lives. Welcome to communism.

THE ENDGAME.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 06:21 AM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


Apologies for parsing your words, I don't want to clog up the specific message I'm addressing and make the reply unreadable. Check the URL of the PDF files, then you'll know where I got them.

I really don't know what new taxes are going to be implemented in this. That's why I asked for a source, probably came off as a snide comment...it was and it wasn't, I love to be proven wrong.

Pertaining to the wikipedia link, I wanted to get the general idea of what FFEL was without mucking it up too much. I'll avoid it in replies to you in the future.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 07:02 AM
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reply to post by links234
 


I did not mean breaking it up, I meant modifying my last comment.

Removing the socialist/fascist from my sentence.

Otherwise changing something and insinuating it was what I said, is disingenuous.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 07:20 AM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


When you hit "Quote" or "Reply", to post a new comment, if you look to the left of that page, it says "Trim your quotes" -

When I hit "Quote", I normally remove all of the comment except whatever question I'm answering. That keeps the quotes shorter, takes up less bandwidth, etc.




posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 07:36 AM
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Boehner is spot on with his comment.

This bill and the entire process that has gotten it to this point has totally disrupted our system and has blatantly usurped the guidelines that regulate it.

Obama held one open meeting with the GOP for a photo op a couple of weeks ago and then it was back to the same closed door Dem only meetings as usual.

The voice of the majority of the people in this nation has been totally disregarded by those who have been elected to represent them.

The wedge has been blatantly placed and driven into this nation by Obama, the man who pledged to end partisan politics. With every move leading up to today that wedge has been deliberately driven deeper into our nation. So deep, that it has finally struck a raw nerve with your average everyday citizen. This whole process has been like a triple root canal without Novocaine. The threshold of tolerance is just about to surface with this administration.

To quote Popeye "I've Had All I Can Stand! I Can't Stands No More!"

Obama's tumbling poll numbers are a prime reflection of the state of the nation and those who are getting pissed off the most are senior citizens. This is also the population who will get the shortcuts in this legislation.

The Medicare Advisory board verbiage is still in place in this bill and their sole purpose is to control spending and cut services. As part of a final push for health-care reform, Congress who now primarily controls medicare, under pressure from the White House Office of Management and Budget, is considering the formation of the "Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB)" to both recommend and formally implement changes to the Medicare program. This new, independent and unelected board of cronies would have unprecedented power to set payment rates and make other Medicare policy decisions. Such unilateral authority could be devastating to those seniors who need access to necessary medical services.

Armageddon, in a non religious sense, is certainly barking at our back door.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 07:50 AM
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I don't like the part about being forced to have a chip implant. I also don't like being forced to take vaccines, giving them access to my bank account, and going to jail or fined if I choose not to purchase insurance.

Privacy was great while it lasted.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 08:40 AM
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reply to post by grantbeed
 


I'll go a few steps further in explaining. John Boehner in addition to being the (Republican) Minority Leader in the House of Representatives, is also the representative for the district that I live in.

Some in the nation and around the world may think that his words are grandstanding, but he is one of the few that is reflecting the opinion of the majority of the very people he represents.

You can read my opinion on the subject in many different threads. I will include some here as well.


  • This is nothing like Universal Health Care. It is the exact same system of purchasing policies from insurance companies that we have now, except that everyone must purchase and no one can be denied coverage provided they can pay the monthly premiums. The poor and elderly in our country already have Medicaid and Medicare which is gov't paid by everyone's taxes. This HCR will reduce the number of people covered by these programs. That is the savings being claimed. However, insurance companies will have to cover the ones that can not and will logically do so by raising the premiums (or will reduce coverage, or increase the amount of your co-pay).

  • Provisions in the HCR bill touch on or outright circumvent protections 8 of the 10 Amendments in the Bill of Rights. So far nothing seems to interfere with the 2nd and 3rd. There is nothing in Article 1, Section 8 (Powers of Congress) that allow for the Federal Gov't to force the People to purchase anything. It is akin to making it a federal law that if enter a McDonald's that you have to purchase a Big Mac whether you eat it or not even if you just went inside to use the restroom.

  • Alternatives to HCR have been mentioned and dismissed. One of the best ones was to allow Americans the option to buy into Medicare coverage until their normal age for entrance. This idea, with a few other ideas implemented such as removing interstate restrictions for insurance companies and disallowing pre-existing conditions as a barrier to purchase private policies, would have accomplished the goal of medical coverage for more Americans and lowering the expense of Medicare to the Gov't by price for purchasing Medicare coverage. It also would have prevented larger violations of the Constitution that HCR does.

  • This more of a personal observation than anything else. Obama wants to be compared to Lincoln. The HCR Bill, as it stands, when passed into Law, has the greatest chance of anything that has came down the pike of finally causing a second Civil War. Unemployment and underemployment is at all time highs. An additional expense burden on an already lowered standard of living could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Back last August I had a thread that was a beginning of this thought. Squashing a rebellion would be as good of an excuse as any to overturn the 2nd Amendment. But much the same way that participation in the first Civil War kept the secessionists from holding office, so too would participation this time around be used to limit people's freedoms after it was over.

  • Every American already has the ability to receive emergency medical attention for free. A hospital cannot refuse emergency medical treatment to anyone regardless of their ability to pay. This bill will only reduce the non-pays. And Ohio, as I would imagine other states have done because Ohio is not particularly creative, has instituted a 2% franchise tax on all Ohio hospitals on income received from treatment administered. That tax is passed on to the insurance companies which will pass it right back to the policy holders in higher premiums.

  • Nothing in this bill sets prices, insurance companies now have the ability to charge anything. The majority of insured Americans have insurance through their employers as a benefit as either partial or full payment of monthly premiums. Employes enjoy the reduced cost of a group rate. Nothing in this bill compels employers to keep doing this. In fact, employers could drop this benefit to bolster their bottom line under "to reduce layoffs in these hard economic times". Thus everyone will have to purchase on their own. Wait until people see that sticker shock of no longer having a group rate and having to pay the full premium.


This bill is dangerous ground. It has the potential to change far more than what it is setting out to do. If Congress presents it to Obama, it will be signed into law. Once law, then the people have to decide to accept it or give the final answer of "no" with no mistaking or joking around. The irony is that this bill has to potential to kill more people than it could have ever saved.

[edit on 21-3-2010 by Ahabstar]



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by Ahabstar
 


Brilliant post, thank you.



posted on Mar, 21 2010 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


I do have my moments from time to time. Unfortunately, I feel it is all for naught. The people educated enough to see this for what it is are really just to old and out of shape to fight a prolonged war (should it come to pass) and victims of "No Child Can Get Ahead" along with the general "me first" mindset of the youth that are able to fight can not see this for what it is. A power grab of epic proportions.

As for me, I am debating between a pizza or a steak sandwich for lunch to celebrate Armageddon before such junk food treats have me labeled as an enemy of the state.







 
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