Should "Rods" Threads Be Consigned To The Hoax Forum?

still seraching for the story or the source for it...

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not

G'day InfaRedMan

I just can't believe Escamilla still pushes this rods thing & people still get conned by it.

Did you know that one of his mates is a member on here?

He wrote to me & stated he had personally researched "rods" with Escamilla & they are real.....

:shk: :shk: :shk:

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Yes, I had a very large debate with said person and he told me the same thing as well as U2U'ing me a whole heap of trashy links as 'proof'. I cannot remember his screen name though I do remember him leaving the thread with his tail between his legs.

IRM

i can't find the story i mentioned, i hate to hurt any credibility i would have but, it probably has to do with the fact that i saw it once on air on tv in another country, with subtitles, so searching through english search engines is tricky

either way though, alot of good points have been made as to the ease of 'creating' false rods with slow shutter cameras and film,

while i wouldn't want to be a 'flip''flopper' i think that a very important part of being a truth seeker is being able to reform things that one beleive, like a learning process

it's just too hard to tell where the rod phenomenon is going or if it is real phenomenon or not, but i still hold true to my opinion that there still is not enough to just lable it a hoax

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


Yes, I agree they should be in the [HOAX] Forum. To be honest, I had happily forgotten about the bugs by the time we created the [HOAX] forum.

If someone will u2u me links to any current threads (I already moved the one linked in this thread) on the bollocks, er topic, I'll move them too.

Springer...

A hoax is a deliberate attempt to deceive or trick people into believing or accepting something which the hoaxer (the person or group creating the hoax) knows is false.

Therefore, since "rods" are actually bugs and everyone with a brain knows it, then it fits the definition of a hoax.

Does anyone not realize we are on a conspiracy theory website (or) more appropriately a discussion board specializing in alternative topics.

If a topic about rods has been created with prior knowledge of it being a hoax, than yes, it should be moved to the HOAX forum. That doesn't mean you should move all 'rod theory' topics to the hoax forum.

It depends on how you perceive a topic. Some people may think the entire UFO & Aliens forum should be renamed the hoax forum. lol.

reply to post by Springer


G'day Springer

Thanks for that

I imagine you have "people" for that sort of thing.....

"Hey boy.....yeah you boy.....move that dang rods thread boy!"

Cheers
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by Springer


I will keep my eye open for them too.

reply to post by Springer


I will keep my eye open for them too.

reply to post by groomlake9


You're right, so why on earth would we want to discuss bugs flying in front of cameras?

Are we also an insect photography site?

Perhaps if you want to discuss such a thing, a forum such as this would be more to your liking?

Macro Lens for moving insects

reply to post by Chadwickus


Actually yes, insect photography can also be discussed at Below Top Secret which will soon be merged with Above.

And besides, all I am saying is I have no issues with moving the rod topics to the hoax forum as long as the topic has been proven beyond doubt that it is a hoax, and we are not moving just because it's titled 'rods'.

reply to post by groomlake9


The hoax board is still a board. Members can and do discuss things in there and people still continue to argue over what is real or fake in there.

I believe Rods are very genuine. They appear in the Smoking Gun video and have shown up in numerous sources other than Escamilla. I like Joe's work, I believe it is genuine. The Discovery Channel went to a lot of effort to sterilize a video of the Cave of Swallows in Mexico. Clearly it is not natural film. Why did they do that if there was nothing to hide?

Originally posted by ReelView
I believe Rods are very genuine. They appear in the Smoking Gun video and have shown up in numerous sources other than Escamilla. I like Joe's work, I believe it is genuine. The Discovery Channel went to a lot of effort to sterilize a video of the Cave of Swallows in Mexico. Clearly it is not natural film. Why did they do that if there was nothing to hide?

maybe i'm talking out of turn or something, but it kinda blows my mind that this topic would be collectively moved to "hoax."

i don't believe in rods, nor 95% of what i read on ats, but it's a conspiracy/alt web site. if the rods phenomenon was specifically related to a specific series of events that were attached to one individual and we was conclusively deemed a hoax, then that would be a hoax. but my admittedly limited understanding is that there are lots of people who believe/see this stuff, kinda like the orbs thing. this thread has demonstrated this.

and yet the outcome is to dismiss, part and parcel, the entire subject?

i note someone mentioned the hoax forum is still a discussion forum and people do indeed discuss there, and maybe that's the solution, but if i believed in them or even questioned/had an interest in them, it would be kinda insulting to have my ideas subjugated by putting them in a forum called "hoax."

how many people would like to do the same with the whole reptile thing?

what about all the people who post often about the "i'm just not feeling right/something is wrong with the world" meme? i don't buy this, but i respect these people and often enjoy reading their stuff.

just seems weird, on a site like ats, when certain topics that are not specific photos or events or individuals are labeled by others "hoax." no one wants their ideas dismissed.

in a perfect world, i'd like to have any threads supporting religion moved to hoax, but i know that isn't going to happen.

Originally posted by Hadrian

how many people would like to do the same with the whole reptile thing?

We could do it for Aliens too.

Anytime someone says they saw or in some way communicated with an Alien, they are lying.

'Abductees' and 'Experiencers' - they are either lying or crazy.

(I sure hope so anyways)


Edit: Also, any images or videos that have been purported to contain evidence of an alien have turned out to be Hoaxes.

I'm with you when it comes to the reptilians. To the Hoax bin with them.




[edit on 23-3-2010 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by Hadrian

Good comments, I've thought about that myself. The difference is this:

Rods can be proven beyond any reasonable doubt to be camera artifacts of moving objects like birds, bats or bugs. So, they are proven false until someone comes up with proof otherwise which ain't gonna happen IMO, but if someone's got 1000 frames a second footage of rods I'd surely look at it, as maybe that shows something we haven't seen before, so my mind's not totally closed. But nobody's ever presented that and I doubt they ever will.

"I feel like...." We can prove rods false but we cant prove how a person feels false. We can't prove reptilian aliens false, you can't prove a negative.

I like what ATS is trying to do here, which is, keep an open mind about things that aren't proven either way, but when something is definitely proven false like rods, move it out of the way and at least do a little bit to improve the signal to noise ratio. (Real mysteries being the signal and rods and similar garbage being noise). After all, there too many interesting REAL anomalies to go after in the world that aren't hoaxes, to waste any time on things that ARE hoaxes. Look at all the bizarre stuff that's NOT made up like black holes, dark matter, dark energy, cold fusion, someone wrote a book of 6000 real mysteries. Some UFOs are really mysterious too. But Rods aren't so let's not waste any time with them outside the hoax forum.

If you disagree with moving hoaxes to the hoax forum then when you have your own website you can make up the rules there, but these are the rules on ATS and personally, I think they do all of us ATS members a favor, except for maybe Escamilla in this case but he's already banned from ATS anyway.

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by Hadrian

how many people would like to do the same with the whole reptile thing?

We could do it for Aliens too.

Anytime someone says they saw or in some way communicated with an Alien, they are lying.

'Abductees' and 'Experiencers' - they are either lying or crazy.

(I sure hope so anyways)

Edit: Also, any images or videos that have been purported to contain evidence of an alien have turned out to be Hoaxes.

I'm with you when it comes to the reptilians. To the Hoax bin with them.

I touched on reptilians in my last post but I'll elaborate here. As much as I am not impressed with the story "I saw a reptilian alien", we can't prove that false like we can rods. Now if they present a picture, then it may be possible to determine the picture is a hoax and move it on that basis. That happened to the CSETI alien photo much to my immense satisfaction (and many other ATS members as well).

Also, I disagree that 'Abductees' and 'Experiencers' are either lying or crazy. For example, look at Michael Shermer's experience with aliens, he's neither lying nor crazy. And some other people that aren't as cognizant of psychological mechanisms as Shermer is can have a similar experience and interpret it differently, but they can really experience it, and not be lying and not be crazy. While Shermer knows he should just dismiss the experience, not everybody realizes that.

If someone posts "I saw a reptilian alien today" with no photo, that gets moved, but to the gray area instead of the hoax forum, right? Or if they post a photo with it and that photo is a hoax, THEN it could be moved to the hoax forum, right? (like the CSETI photo) That's my understanding anyway.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


I agree, there are psychological phenomena people have associated with aliens.

But one cannot be abducted by aliens or have experiences with them because there are no aliens. If someone claims that they have done so then that person is either engaging in deception, or they are/were afflicted by some psychological problem (which could be naturally occurring or drug induced).

It is crude to call some of these people crazy, but that is what some of them are (you've seen the type; posting about their interactions and communications with the aliens... like it is real)

Maybe moving some of their material to the Hoax bin might help them realize what they sound like. At the very least it show that their delusion will not be supported or treated as real by ATS.

*I know this has already started to be done, and I commend it. I think that it is good for some of those people.





[edit on 23-3-2010 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by Exuberant1

It is crude to call some of these people crazy, but that is what some of them are (you've seen the type; posting about their interactions and communications with the aliens... like it is real)

Maybe moving some of their material to the Hoax bin might help them realize what they sound like. At the very least it show that their delusion will not be supported or treated as real by ATS.

*I know this has already started to be done, and I commend it. I think that it is good for some of those people.

I agree. We need to tread very lightly when it comes to validating possible delusion/mental illness on the board. When we turn off the computer at night and go back to our normal lives, the ramifications of what we say can have very real effects on some other vulnerable individual.

Another thing I would like to see on the board in regard to highly speculative topics is for posts to be written as opinion only, as opposed to being espoused as fact. IMHO, this 'fact speak' is always the trigger for discord within a thread.

Like Arbi pretty much said, the "I am a starchild, indigo hybrid" threads should go immediately to the gray area, and threads where falsified evidence has clearly been presented should go to hoax forum with appropriate action taken upon the account of the responsible member.

I'm glad to see some very proactive action from Springer. He should be commended on his high integrity!

IRM

[edit on 23/3/10 by InfaRedMan]

Yes they should, and they have been for years. All is well here.